Comics The Anti-USM Thread

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Yer all reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeal late. I started hatin' this book way back in the 50s.

 

[Dangerous]

I hated it back then too.

I bought the first ten issues because everyone was raving about it, but soon after I realized how lame it was and dropped it like a bad habit.
Apollo Creed style.

 

[Venom 1988]

I don't necessarily think that is the case.
It's just that when you do re-imagine a classic character like Spider-man and drastically change things, like for e.g.- making Green Goblin an actual Goblin type monster,
it only serves to highlight how crap and inferior USM is compared to the original.

Exactly people are forgetting what the original purpose of the ultimate universe was, which was for readers to not worry about 40+ years of continuity. Not make drastic changes and totally change characters around.

Its one thing to update or re-imagine a character(making Gwen a punk, Kraven as TV show host) but to totally change a character around (making GG a hulk monster, Doc Ock controlling metal, Gwen becoming Carnage, etc...) is just unneeded crap.

 

[Dangerous]

Exactly people are forgetting what the original purpose of the ultimate universe was, which was for readers to not worry about 40+ years of continuity. Not make drastic changes and totally change characters around.

Its one thing to update or re-imagine a character(making Gwen a punk, Kraven as TV show host) but to totally change a character around (making GG a hulk monster, Doc Ock controlling metal, Gwen becoming Carnage, etc...) is just unneeded crap.

You got that right buddy.
At least your namesake, from my limited understanding of USM, remained comparatively similar to his original design.

 

[Rambo, John J]

I suppose for arguments sake it could be said that the ability to control metal was always there in Ock, albeit a latent power until he bonded with the arms. From that point, he could control them and perhaps deluded or fooled himself into believing that it was the actual arms he controlled and not the metal.

After the arms were destoyed, he gradually (after a period of grieving for the loss of the arms) realised that he could in fact control metal itself...?

Frankly though, I just don't... um... y'know.... ah... credit Bendis with ah... thinking things through to...um... that extent.

 

[Dark Spidey]

Exactly people are forgetting what the original purpose of the ultimate universe was, which was for readers to not worry about 40+ years of continuity. Not make drastic changes and totally change characters around.

Its one thing to update or re-imagine a character(making Gwen a punk, Kraven as TV show host) but to totally change a character around (making GG a hulk monster, Doc Ock controlling metal, Gwen becoming Carnage, etc...) is just unneeded crap.

Well said.

With so many changes to the fundementals of certain characters, Ultimate Spider-man has become nothing more than an over glorified What If? series, to me.

No longer to be taken seriously as a true interpretation of the character.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

My main problems with the book aren't so much bastardizations of the characters (which there is) but padded out plots, anti-climactic endings, an' Bendis exclusive cliches (ie: Peter's unmasked, can't beat the baddie without help, etc...)

 

[Dangerous]

Yeah, making Spidey into a serious ***** is another one of my main problems.

 

[diespinne]

Gwen's gold jewelry is what put me off this title. I mean seriously... was this a coloring mistake? I don't see edgy/rebellious/goth/punk/counter culture types sporting gaudy gold jewelry. That stuff should be silver. I didn't think anything from that title could bug me more than Hulk-Goblin until I saw that...

Needless to say, I quit USM a long time ago, and from what I'm reading here, I didn't miss much...

 

[Captivated]

Wow... I'm a bit surprized to find so many who feel the same way I do about USM.

I'm not sure I can pinpoint just what, but it's really lost something... including my interest.

I've never really liked the Kitty thing. I think too many found it "cool" just because they were bored with MJ. But to me, Peter "moving on" so quickly with Kitty seemed out of character... and a little icky.

I was bored silly with the X-men adventure, and the Clone Saga just completely lost me... my interest that is. I liked the set up, with Peter and MJ... but it quickly started circling the drain once it got going.

But that's my opinion.

I haven't even bothered getting the last issue, which is VERY uncharacteristic... I usually get new comics on the day they are released and read them before going home. The Civil War and Clone Saga has changed that. Sad.

 

[Miguel]

Gwen's gold jewelry is what put me off this title. I mean seriously... was this a coloring mistake? I don't see edgy/rebellious/goth/punk/counter culture types sporting gaudy gold jewelry. That stuff should be silver.

Her hair probably wasn't up to punk/goth standards too, so I totally know what you mean.

And unrelated to this thread, you've got a good username! I just vaguely remember that one. =)

 

[Dark Spidey]

Wow... I'm a bit surprized to find so many who feel the same way I do about USM.

I'm not sure I can pinpoint just what, but it's really lost something... including my interest.

I've never really liked the Kitty thing. I think too many found it "cool" just because they were bored with MJ. But to me, Peter "moving on" so quickly with Kitty seemed out of character... and a little icky.

I was bored silly with the X-men adventure, and the Clone Saga just completely lost me... my interest that is. I liked the set up, with Peter and MJ... but it quickly started circling the drain once it got going.

But that's my opinion.

I haven't even bothered getting the last issue, which is VERY uncharacteristic... I usually get new comics on the day they are released and read them before going home. The Civil War and Clone Saga has changed that. Sad.

Worry not. Jeph Loeb and JSC are on their way. And if they can't tell a great Spidey story then no one can!!

 

[diespinne]

Her hair probably wasn't up to punk/goth standards too, so I totally know what you mean.

And unrelated to this thread, you've got a good username! I just vaguely remember that one. =)

Thanks! I assume your's is a nod to Spidey 2099?

 

[gliderpilotgirl]

I haven't even bothered getting the last issue, which is VERY uncharacteristic... I usually get new comics on the day they are released and read them before going home. The Civil War and Clone Saga has changed that. Sad.

Cap, I think you will like the ending of 104. It's the first time in months that I've actually had some hope for the direction this title.
I'm sure you'd like to see it yourself first, but in case you want to know what's so cool:

Spoiler

Peter hugs MJ and tells her he loves her. And that he was wrong and almost lost her.

 

[Venom Drool]

whats funny is that he really wasnt wrong and the reconciliation should have been more than "i've realized its ok to put you in harms way cause i care about you more than that"... or something. ugh. doesnt make sense. the essential thing behind peter splitting with mj was that she could get hurt. what the hell has changed?

 

[Infinity9999x]

Ultimate Spidey has been the only Spider-man comic I've been buying (though in GN form, so I'm quite a bit behind all you in the story, so I didn't fully read Dark Spidey's first post) and I've liked it up to where I've read, but as with all of you there are many things I've disliked about it. Really, you can only change characters so much or else people won't like it.

Ultimate Spidey was a good idea in theory, and it worked for a while, but it'll probably burn out eventually. I really think the Ultimate Spider-man apporach would be better applied to a live action Spider-man tv show.

If they wanted to do a tv show of Spider-man now, I'd take some tips from USM. Most noteably, how well Bendis was able to make Spider-man relatable to a teenager of today. I would basically take Bendis's first coupple arcs and make them into the first year or so of episodes, with some considerable changes.

I'd make the Goblin more like 616 Goblin, and still have his glider, his intelligence, and be overall less Hulk-like, but keep the same basic look he has in USM (only smaller). I'd replace MJ with Gwen, and eventually kill her off by the hand of the goblin after a few seasons.

Basically, smaller changes to keep Spider-man updated for the new viewing age of today, have it keep the basic storylines of the 616 spidey at the beggining of his career and give it a less drastic Ultimate approach.

Usm was a cool idea, but in a monthy comic, you have to keep getting new ideas to keep going, which means writers will keep trying to change things to make it more interesting, and I like I said, you can only do that so much to classic characters before people get fed up.

 

[Miguel]

Thanks! I assume your's is a nod to Spidey 2099?

It's simpler than that, I just like the name, and having had a spanish course lately decided to use that spelling of the name 'michael'. Boring. It probably is fitting as a nod to 2099 though, so why not. =)

I was digging through a storage garage filled with stuff I don't want/need in my house right now and ran across the first twenty issues of the series the other day. It feels like forever since they started publishing it!

 

[Miguel]

whats funny is that he really wasnt wrong and the reconciliation should have been more than "i've realized its ok to put you in harms way cause i care about you more than that"... or something. ugh. doesnt make sense. the essential thing behind peter splitting with mj was that she could get hurt. what the hell has changed?

Well, nothing, except for his emotions. The argument behind him letting her back into his life right now is, "I kept you at arms distance for your safety; you still got mixed up in this whole clone business regardless; I'm wrong and love you and I'm open to you being in my life. (sorry, Kitty.)"

It isn't an argument that would really make sense held up to the light, because just because this happened doesn't mean that other things inevitably must just because of their past contact. Every situation in Peter's life isn't going to be "clones remember MJ; then they snatch her." Or some measure of connection leading back to her, with whichever threat is assuming the current arc/issue's role of problem to diffuse following the trail. If he really were going to be cold and clear-cut about it, he'd just shut her out, period, never to have anything to do with her again. Then again, he'd have to do the same thing for his aunt, or the other option is just simply: stop being Spider-Man. No one's likely to get killed if you quit playing hero.

None of that works for the story, though. She's an integral character, and the only way, say, Mary Jane could be exiled from the title like that is if she moved away. I wouldn't want her out, either; so there's a bonus point for Peter being sixteen and not looking at all the possibilities, and picking the one ultimately best for her life and/or survival. Or taking any of the other options that someone would consider with the results on either side being: "sacrificing of myself to do a greater good" and then "eliminating a potentially great risk to my family, and relinquishing my ability to use these powers." If he did what's best for his family and loved ones, there's no other choice he could make but turn his back on the rest of the world. If that were his absolute priority.

/end novel

 

[Venom Drool]

i deduced all of that. but as a reader id rather let this info wash over me as opposed to pick at the crevices of dialogue and art on three panels of the final page. this isnt a novel, and doesn't read like one. that kind of analysis is too deep for a comic, or at least a comic that took the easy way out of explaining nothing but (they really love eachother and should be together) the end...

 

[gliderpilotgirl]

i deduced all of that. but as a reader id rather let this info wash over me as opposed to pick at the crevices of dialogue and art on three panels of the final page. this isnt a novel, and doesn't read like one. that kind of analysis is too deep for a comic, or at least a comic that took the easy way out of explaining nothing but (they really love eachother and should be together) the end...

What's there to explain? He loves her, and doesn't love Kitty. He thought he could be happy with another girl, and that way they'd both win. He was wrong. Love is not logical like that, and sometimes you have to take risks. She is fully aware of what she is getting into and he should respect her, do his best, and that's all their is. It's not complicated to explain.

 

[Miguel]

He loves her, and doesn't love Kitty. ... She is fully aware of what she is getting into and he should respect her, do his best, and that's all their is.

As much as a sixteen year old loves someone else. And she isn't actually fully aware.. again, they're still very much kids.

But yeah, as far as explaining it, there isn't anything to explain: Peter feels that he loves Mary Jane, Mary Jane feels that she loves him, so that's all that's really needed for it to be believable on their parts. Those are their motivations, and they're simple. Earnest and heartfelt, but simple.

 

[Venom Drool]

meh... it wasnt enough before

 

[Miguel]

I know. gliderpilotgirl would say love isn't logical; I'd just say it's Peter not being logical. Or being straight-up dumb.

I don't see it either.

 

[OtepApe]

Spoiler

So Peter is now willing to put MJ in harms way, because he loves her??? That sounds a little iffy to me.

How much time in the comics have passed since the Hobgoblin incident???

 

[Dangerous]

I'd make the Goblin more like 616 Goblin, and still have his glider, his intelligence, and be overall less Hulk-like, but keep the same basic look he has in USM (only smaller).

Ugh no thanx.

People seem to forget, THIS, and only this is the Green Goblin-

Old Goblin Romita Style

New Costume Humberto Ramos

Not this-

And definitely not this-