Solar radiation as a catalyst, you decide ?

[yahman]

I don't have time to argue about this at the moment as I have an essay to write, but I disagree. Yours is a very positivist perspective, which IMO is what is wrong with people in the world. People like you prevent others from formulating explanations, because they're always going to be wrong !

Why are they wrong ?,

because I say so !

Not all the explanations I have provided are scientific, but they are based on some pretty rational met physics. Berkeley, Plato and co, Dick on John Byrne and Geoff Johns. So if someone is going to come up with something that is meta physical in nature (I.e. Magic), id go with something a bit more rational than 'Use the force Luke'.

Plus your statement has rejected all the scientific additions, I mentioned; such as the green Energy constructs being made out of plasma, and controlled by magnetic fields. Magic seeping into our dimension like gravity, ! Oh yeah I forgot the ideologies put forward by Martin Rees, whom suggests that the qunatum world acts just likedata being processed in a computer. Therefore science is providing evidence for far out meta physical concepts such as Idealism.

My ideas maybe un-proven but their a lot more rational than a yellow sun ray giving someone the power to crack planets in half. If a comic book power origin, can be explained by something implausible, or something impossible; i'll always go with the implausible. The two are very different. I thought you'd know that being a philosopher.

The fact is, there are some rational implausible but possible explanations out there, but no one wants to upset the ****ing ignorant Status Quo !

 

[Aristotle]

I don't have time to argue about this at the moment as I have an essay to write, but I disagree. Yours is a very positivist perspective, which IMO is what is wrong with people in the world. People like you prevent others from formulating explanations, because they're always going to be wrong !

Why are they wrong ?,

because I say so !

Not all the explanations I have provided are scientific, but they are based on some pretty rational met physics. Berkeley, Plato and co, Dick on John Byrne and Geoff Johns. So if someone is going to come up with something that is meta physical in nature (I.e. Magic), id go with something a bit more rational than 'Use the force Luke'.

Plus your statement has rejected all the scientific additions, I mentioned; such as the green Energy constructs being made out of plasma, and controlled by magnetic fields. Magic seeping into our dimension like gravity, ! Oh yeah I forgot the ideologies put forward by Martin Rees, whom suggests that the qunatum world acts just likedata being processed in a computer. Therefore science is providing evidence for far out meta physical concepts such as Idealism.

My ideas maybe un-proven but their a lot more rational than a yellow sun ray giving someone the power to crack planets in half. If a comic book power origin, can be explained by something implausible, or something impossible; i'll always go with the implausible. The two are very different. I thought you'd know that being a philosopher.

The fact is, there are some rational implausible but possible explanations out there, but no one wants to upset the ****ing ignorant Status Quo !

Rationality does not equal truth, especially when dealing with fundamentally irrational concepts. This is something you touched on yourself when you brought up the question of how irrational energy would behave in a rational universe.

That's why metaphysics, while a lot of fun as an interesting intellectual pursuit, is, at the end of the day, *********ory. It presupposes a virtually impossible reality: a reality in which irrational energy could interact with rationality in such a rational way that it could be studied as a science.

But irrationality, true irrationality, is beyond the comprehension of the human mind. Because our minds are limited by rational thought, we cannot really grasp what irrationality looks like. Therefore, when we try to capture it and theorize and hypothesize about it in metaphysics, we inevitably fail and produce results no less outlandish than "yellow sun radiation."

Your retcons try to harness irrationality and use it as an engine to power rational ideas. You, like most thinkers, have fallen into the trap of sublimating irrationality to rationality, despite the fact that philosophy, at its core, is an irrational, illogical, subjective realm of truth. The dichotomy between philosophy and concrete sciences is the dichotomy between subjective and objective truths; two kinds of answers for two kinds of questions. Yet, in the tradition of "creation scientists" and "theistic evolutionists," you try to meld the two together into some strange synthesis of rationality and irrationality, magic and science, subjectivity and objectivity. Unfortunately, such efforts inevitably end with one of the two being sublimated to the other.

Basically, to bring this back around: your metaphysical explanations may be internally consistent with the discipline of metaphysics, but that doesn't make them anymore consistent with reality than yellow-sun-power and willpower-as-green-energy.

 

[Aristotle]

I also take issue with your characterization of me as a positivist. The reality of my philosophy is more nuanced. In terms of the "rational truth," I am very much a positivist. We have a scientific method for determining the answers to such questions, so that's how the answers should be arrived at.

But rational truth is not all there is in the world. There is also "irrational truth," the kind of truth for which there is not one answer. This is the kind of question answerable only by the human mind, for the individual human experience. This is where me and almost 100% of positivists part ways. I do believe in the indomitable human spirit, regardless of what science has to say on the matter. It's not an empirical question; why would I rely on empirical means to answer it?

My philosophy is not unlike Gould's Non-Overlapping Magisteria, except that it is a bit broader. I consider theology and religion to be under the larger umbrella of irrationality/illogic/subjectivity/philosophy, and the sciences to be under the larger umbrella of rationality/logic/objectivity/empirics.

Obviously, there are places at which the two realms of truth come very close to meeting: metaphysics and quantum physics represent the most obvious one. Sociology often concerns itself with matters similar to those found in the study of ethics, or of social theology. But these are always asking questions that are of a fundamentally different nature, however similar the details might be.

 

[fifthfiend]

So if someone is going to come up with something that is meta physical in nature (I.e. Magic), id go with something a bit more rational than 'Use the force Luke'.

You know what happens when you go with something 'more rational' than "use the Force, Luke"?

Midichlorians.

I mean going by the preceding discussion you may be one of the two people in the entire world who like Midichlorians? But speaking for the entire rest of humanity, **** ****ing Midichlorians.

 

[yahman]

Rationality does not equal truth, especially when dealing with fundamentally irrational concepts. This is something you touched on yourself when you brought up the question of how irrational energy would behave in a rational universe.

That's why metaphysics, while a lot of fun as an interesting intellectual pursuit, is, at the end of the day, *********ory. It presupposes a virtually impossible reality: a reality in which irrational energy could interact with rationality in such a rational way that it could be studied as a science.

But irrationality, true irrationality, is beyond the comprehension of the human mind. Because our minds are limited by rational thought, we cannot really grasp what irrationality looks like. Therefore, when we try to capture it and theorize and hypothesize about it in metaphysics, we inevitably fail and produce results no less outlandish than "yellow sun radiation."

Your retcons try to harness irrationality and use it as an engine to power rational ideas. You, like most thinkers, have fallen into the trap of sublimating irrationality to rationality, despite the fact that philosophy, at its core, is an irrational, illogical, subjective realm of truth. The dichotomy between philosophy and concrete sciences is the dichotomy between subjective and objective truths; two kinds of answers for two kinds of questions. Yet, in the tradition of "creation scientists" and "theistic evolutionists," you try to meld the two together into some strange synthesis of rationality and irrationality, magic and science, subjectivity and objectivity. Unfortunately, such efforts inevitably end with one of the two being sublimated to the other.

Basically, to bring this back around: your metaphysical explanations may be internally consistent with the discipline of metaphysics, but that doesn't make them anymore consistent with reality than yellow-sun-power and willpower-as-green-energy.

Fair enough. Don't agree with all of what youre saying especially this

"The dichotomy between philosophy and concrete sciences is the dichotomy between subjective and objective truths;"

and this

"your metaphysical explanations may be internally consistent with the discipline of metaphysics, but that doesn't make them anymore consistent with reality than yellow-sun-power and willpower-as-green-energy.[/"

[The first i disagree with out epistemlogical grounds, the second out my own personal ets]

But you do make a very good point !

Some of the more meta physical parts of D.C. cannot be rationalised with meta physics, but the more scientific powers can.

Quantum mechanics does allow for both the green Lanterns and Superman.
Quantum Vacuum energy provides a suitable power source for both, and the green constructs and Superman's bio electrical aura can be scientifically explained with plasma fields. These two explanations enter the realm of possibility, and IMO dick on the current impossible ********. Obviously the will power and yellow radiation would have to be brought into the equation, to ease the transition for the nostalgic, out there.

I agree that the meta physical powers of D.C. do not need being explained, but when a scientific explanation can be provided, is suggest it should be. Why ? well it would help geeks like myself sleep better at night. Yeah, i think I've refuted my entire pointless quest in this last remark, but I don't really care. I'm sure im insane any way.

 

[SuperFerret]

I like comic books. I like superheroes. I like men from dead worlds who can fly and lift heavy stuff. I like warrior women from mythology. I like men who take personal tragedy and use it to motivate them to be a positive influence in their world. I like people who can run faster than the speed of sound just because they can. I like time travel. I like gorillas who can talk and use jetpacks. I like how getting bitten by a nuclear bug can give you powers. I like how gamma radiation makes you stronger. I like giant world-eating weirdos with questionable fashion sense.

Why?

Because it's fun.

Guess what's not fun? Science class.

 

[yahman]

You know what happens when you go with something 'more rational' than "use the Force, Luke"?

Midichlorians.

I mean going by the preceding discussion you may be one of the two people in the entire world who like Midichlorians? But speaking for the entire rest of humanity, **** ****ing Midichlorians.

Lol

Fair enough!

I don't like Midichlorians. But i get your point ! Im wierd and I won't deny that, yet i 've managed to get you reading a whole page worth of my ideas which means they cant be that boring.

 

[fifthfiend]

i 've managed to get you reading a whole page worth of my ideas which means they cant be that boring.

Dude, I am skim-reading like a mother****er.

 

[yahman]

I like comic books. I like superheroes. I like men from dead worlds who can fly and lift heavy stuff. I like warrior women from mythology. I like men who take personal tragedy and use it to motivate them to be a positive influence in their world. I like people who can run faster than the speed of sound just because they can. I like time travel. I like gorillas who can talk and use jetpacks. I like how getting bitten by a nuclear bug can give you powers. I like how gamma radiation makes you stronger. I like giant world-eating weirdos with questionable fashion sense.

Why?

Because it's fun.

Guess what's not fun? Science class.

Yeah i just trying to add some rational consistency to the fun !

I want Superman to be splitting planets in half with his sneezes, i just want there to be a better explanation than 'he's a really good Solar panel'

But doesn't he beat Gods ?

Yes but they haven't invented the Solar panel, yet

Yeah, has he taken on the most powerful weapon in the universe and won ?

Yeah but meta physical rings powered by imagination, are nothing to the power solar panels.

W.T.F. ?????

 

[SuperFerret]

Yeah i just trying to add some rational consistency to the fun !

I want Superman to be splitting planets in half with his sneezes, i just want there to be a better explanation than 'he's a really good Solar panel'

But doesn't he beat Gods ?

Yes but they haven't invented the Solar panel, yet

Yeah, has he taken on the most powerful weapon in the universe and won ?

Yeah but meta physical rings powered by imagination, are nothing to the power solar panels.

W.T.F. ?????

I'm not sure what you're saying there, so I'm just gonna nod slowly.

 

[yahman]

Dude, I am skim-reading like a mother****er.

Gutted !

Oh well you did call me Warren Ellis, so i still love you !

 

[yahman]

I'm not sure what you're saying there, so I'm just gonna nod slowly.

Ok imagine the conversation goin like this ;

John Bryne : Its nearly the 90's and I'm going to make Superman a a really good solar pannel.

Me; Why ?

John Bryne: Because It will make Superman more realistic

20 years later

Me; John don't you think it was a stupid idea ?

John Bryne; No of course it wasn't everyone thinks its really cool that Superman is basically a really good solar panel.

Me; Yeah but hasn't he beaten up the most powerful New Gods ?

John Bryne ; Yeah that's because the New Gods haven't got anything that can effectively match the power of solar panels.

Me; That sounds ******ed.

John Bryne; Yeah everyone else has bought it.

 

[SuperFerret]

Ok imagine the conversation goin like this ;

John Bryne : Its nearly the 90's and I'm going to make Superman a a really good solar pannel.

Me; Why ?

John Bryne: Because It will make Superman more realistic

20 years later

Me; John don't you think it was a stupid idea ?

John Bryne; No of course it wasn't everyone thinks its really cool that Superman is basically a really good solar panel.

Me; Yeah but hasn't he beaten up the most powerful New Gods ?

John Bryne ; Yeah that's because the New Gods haven't got anything that can effectively match the power of solar panels.

Me; That sounds ******ed.

John Bryne; Yeah everyone else has bought it though.

But he's NOT a solar panel. His body absorbs the light of the yellow sun, much like humans do, but his body, being ALIEN, reacts differently to the sun's rays, resulting in his powers. And nevermind how debatable it is whether or not he should be able to defeat the most powerful New Gods, if he can, it's not because they suck compared to solar panels, it's because SUPERMAN can beat them.

 

[yahman]

But he's NOT a solar panel. His body absorbs the light of the yellow sun, much like humans do, but his body, being ALIEN, reacts differently to the sun's rays, resulting in his powers. And nevermind how debatable it is whether or not he should be able to defeat the most powerful New Gods, if he can, it's not because they suck compared to solar panels, it's because SUPERMAN can beat them.

If Supermans powers = Solar panels (which they basically do), then New Gods, Green Lanterns, Mongul, Cyborg Superman etc loosing to him is because he is more powerful, which means their powers must 'suck more' than the power of the SOLAR PANEL, muhhahahahahahaha

Crap !

 

[fifthfiend]

Fool, stop childin'.

 

[yahman]

Fool, stop childin'.

eh ?

 

[Spike_x1]

Byrne's not the one who came up with the idea of Superman being fueled by the sun.
If you're going to whine, at least get the facts straight.

 

[fifthfiend]

eh ?

You heard me.

Somebody throw this boy some act-right, that's what he need.

 

[SuperFerret]

If Supermans powers = Solar panels (which they basically do), then New Gods, Green Lanterns, Mongul, Cyborg Superman etc loosing to him is because he is more powerful, which means their powers must 'suck more' than the power of the SOLAR PANEL, muhhahahahahahaha

Crap !

If Superman's powers = Solar panels, then they are powered by the sun. Solar panels basically take sunlight (i.e. the energy of the SUN) and convert it into something else, in Superman's case that's flight, super-strength and speed, heat vision, etc. Therefore, if Superman's powers = Solar panel and Solar Panels = powered by the Sun, Superman's powers = powered by the Sun, or to make it simpler by eliminating the common terms on both sides of the equation: Superman = the Sun.

Furthermore, if Superman > New Gods, Green Lanterns, Mongul, etc. then that collective's powers "suck more" than the powers of the Sun itself, and while some of those guys CAN snuff out a star, it's never been an easy task for them, thus, by your logic, it makes COMPLETE SENSE that Superman will give them a problem and be able to defeat them on occasion.

 

[Spike_x1]

Of course, a New God as powerful as Darkseid should be able to just say "f**k solar power!" and just wipe the sun's energy clear from Superman's body. But whatevs.

 

[SuperFerret]

Of course, a New God as powerful as Darkseid should be able to just say "f**k solar power!" and just wipe the sun's energy clear from Superman's body. But whatevs.

Shhh.... I actually made a good argument for once. Don't ruin this for me.

 

[Aristotle]

Of course, a New God as powerful as Darkseid should be able to just say "f**k solar power!" and just wipe the sun's energy clear from Superman's body. But whatevs.

The problem with that is writer inconsistency and disrespect of the Darkseid character. That's not the fault of Superman's powerset.

 

[BrianWilly]

If Supermans powers = Solar panels (which they basically do), then New Gods, Green Lanterns, Mongul, Cyborg Superman etc loosing to him is because he is more powerful, which means their powers must 'suck more' than the power of the SOLAR PANEL, muhhahahahahahaha

Crap !

What is it with you and these completely ******ed oversimplifications of powers? SUPERMAN IS A SOLAR PANEL! GREEN LANTERNS ARE PREGNANT WOMEN! OH NOES! It's like your brain just comes up with the most ludicrous comparisons that make the least sense in any sort of context whatsoever.

"Lulz Captain Marvel's powers work like a lightbulb switch so it's like all these people are being beaten by a lightbulb LULZLULZLULZLULZLULZ"

 

[Spike_x1]

The problem with that is writer inconsistency and disrespect of the Darkseid character. That's not the fault of Superman's powerset.

Very true. Still, with New Gods being mentioned numerous times now, I just felt like saying it.

 

[yahman]

If Superman's powers = Solar panels, then they are powered by the sun. Solar panels basically take sunlight (i.e. the energy of the SUN) and convert it into something else, in Superman's case that's flight, super-strength and speed, heat vision, etc. Therefore, if Superman's powers = Solar panel and Solar Panels = powered by the Sun, Superman's powers = powered by the Sun, or to make it simpler by eliminating the common terms on both sides of the equation: Superman = the Sun.

Furthermore, if Superman > New Gods, Green Lanterns, Mongul, etc. then that collective's powers "suck more" than the powers of the Sun itself, and while some of those guys CAN snuff out a star, it's never been an easy task for them, thus, by your logic, it makes COMPLETE SENSE that Superman will give them a problem and be able to defeat them on occasion.

Yeah good one, via your 'logic' i suppose that humans are burgers, or pies or maybe ice cream.

you're one of the people who thinks Superman has the power of an enitre Star. Your basically saying that If i put a solar panel on top of my roof ( 25 % efficient) it would absorb a quarter of the suns entire power. One quarter of the suns power ? Thats a **** load of power for one house ! I suppose when 8 houses have the same solar panels, the amount of energy given out by the sun, doubles ? That is what you are saying by comparing Superman's power to an entire Sun. If this is the case how the **** did he get all the energy ? Or have you forgotten that light travel in straight lines ? he can only absorb the light that travels directly onto him. When you consider that the entire earth gets about one billionth of the Sun's solar energy , and humans are more than trillion times smaller than the earth, you start to get an idea off how little energy Superman is getting.

This amount of Solar energy would barelypower a tank, let a lone move planet. For some reason, people think that because Superman is a 'Living Solar battery' he's inexplicably able to absorb a good percentage of the Suns radiation. This is crap ! In other words Superman is a highly effective solar panel. He absorbs sunlight at rate of about 100 %. Yet this is still a tiny amount of energy.

The other explanation that people preach is that Superman is able to absorb the energy and then 'MAGICALLY' make it do more than it possibly can. In other words people are saying that if Superman ate a burger, he have enough power to blow up a mountain range. This just doesn't make sense. If he can magically duplicate energy, why does he bother absorbing Sunlight in the first place ? If there is some magical process going on in his cells, why don't the writers make reference to it ? Oh yeah they're generally as ignorant as too this aswell.