Comics Spiderman is the reason I quit Marvel.

[farmernudie]

ilvoeclones: And let's be honest, some of the people you mentioned are reading for the sole purpose of gathering ammunition. I don't consider it reading when you already have an agenda in mind. And there's a biiiiig difference between flipping through it in the store and sitting down at home and reading it. When I say "reading", I mean buying. If you're buying it, I retract my statement.

But I do think some of those names mentioned (and others) just have an axe to grind.

Well, since i am one of the three names mentioned in anothers post, and then talked about as "some of those (three) are just reading with an axe to grind or to gather ammunition....i just wanted to speak up for myself in this conversation between you all...and make it known that i have no axe to grind and do not read it (yes, i am NOT purchasing, admittedly like shinlyle) because it is just too insulting to me personally and is stuff that could've been done without ruining the marriage and retconning needlessly imo.

I have not seen ANY of the THREE names mentioned by the other poster as people attacking, or reading "for ammunition" either. I think some of the OMD/BND supporters are somtimes overly supportive at times that they can't even talk about the facts, thinking maybe admitting something is "off" makes them no longer spidey fans. It feels at times like I or others not buying are considered "bad fans" and not giving it a chance...when maybe it just is what it is...and we do not like it, for obvious reasons.

I am totally cool with anyone reading OMD/BND....and if they like it, so be it. People can spend their money where they want...we are all free to do so. Those buying it are no bigger a fan of spidey than I am while not buying it this second time in spidey history (cloen saga the other).

While I do not like retconning, alternate histories, massive midnwipes and clear cut agendas shoved down my throat and forced upon my favorite characters...that is just me. Other people are cool with things. That's fine.

I jsut don't like it IF someone is making false accusations about me, (or WHO of the THREE you are INFERRING) when i am just thrown into the conversations here. I have NO axe to grind. I am just wishing and hoping Spidey will be fixed so I can purchase and enjoy (my favorite character) spidey like I have for all these many many years.

 

[shinlyle]

LMAO@ these Avatars talking about I Quit

Well...since I did quit, the avatar fits. If the avatar fits, you must acquit!

 

[Norman Osborn]

Personally I don't think I have an axe to grind but I'd wager few people even know when they have an axe to grind...and even if they did, they certainly wouldn't admit it......

...my story is similar to the rest but different......I put Spidey back on my pull list immediately after hearing Slott was on the title....and immediately dropped it again after hearing what the conclusion to OMD was.....I had it cancelled before I even got the last issue of OMD delivered.....as iloveclones alluded to....it was far too bitter a pill for me.....

...much to my surprise, I actually got the first issue of BND delivered to me....not a big deal...it's 3 bucks.......I've also subsequently read the final two issues of the first arc and the 1st ish of the second arc...(not flipped through....actually read....I spend enough dough at Coles book store that they don't mind....)

.....I still remember actually seeing the 1st ish in my stash of books and thinking to myself "great, I'm going to read this and jump back on the Spidey gravy train"....I even mentioned it to tmob.......I was surprised when after reading it my thoughts were that the first issue was an average issue of Spidey at best......and it never got better than average for me...in fact I think saying it's average is out of respect for Slott's work......"Digger" was an average arc....I didn't think this was as good as "Digger"...and once again in my opinion, it paled in comparison to the JMS Hydra arc and David's Taking Wing arc.

I can accept there's people out there who will refuse to like the new ASM, because of an axe to grind.....and I can also understand the divide between those who like and those who don't....it's personal preference.....what I can't seem to get my head around is the idea that there's people who think this new ASM is gold and I can barely scrape mediocre or average from it......and as Shin said before, with the All Star team ASM has on its titles, mediocre or average aint getting it back on this pull list

 

[spider greg]

what I can't seem to get my head around is the idea that there's people who think this new ASM is gold and I can barely scrape mediocre or average from it.

I think you answered your own question.

...it's personal preference.....

Personally, (and I can understand why) I think a lot of the negativity towards OMD is giving people the wrong impression of BND. Before all this happened I don't how many posts I read from readers who claimed that they wanted good fun stories, and not all the "big life altering storylines" that get really old after a while. We're getting those kinds of stories now, but now even those aren't good enough. I guess it just has to do with your attitude.

 

[Norman Osborn]

I think you answered your own question.

I often do...I'm brilliant like that

 

[Themanofbat]

In my opinion, I think the stories are just going to get better as time goes on...

Let's face it, there's an All-Star team of writers that are all banging their heads together and coming up with some decent and at times cool ideas (some will work, some won't, we'll see...) and for the first time since Spidey basically had only one book, things will read like a nice cohesive storyline. Sure, some stories may come off as "stinkers"... that happens in comics. But I can really appreciate the efforts that the new writers are putting into the book... even with an initial crappy set-up, and I appreciate the people who have been openly negative of BND to have at least attempted to try it.

What I don't like is when a few nay-sayers make blatant claims that the people liking BND are a bunch of stupid morons et al... for example... "To many fanboys around here with their lips attached to Slott's ass to even see how craptastic ASM still is."

 

[farmernudie]

There.....now it's the turn of pro-BND peeps to write out well written posts as to why they LIKE BND and explain their "Stories" of why they're financially supporting it....LOL...

I mean, I understand all sides.

I totally understand how some people can just flat out hate and not want to read it again.

Fact is, not just on this board, but all boards...Joe has managed to make spidey comics and spidey conversation EXTREMELY DEVISIVE.

The mentality by many posters who spend time on here (or elsewhere) is that the rule is you can only say "good things" about the current state of spidey...or don't say anything at all, if you even have the slightest (to major) qualm with it.

I do however find it funny that marvel has to keep kicking out varients (which some are indeed cool looking-see, i can admit things) and have "hip creative teams" and have everything called "amazing" and etc to gimmick the readers to come back and not have everyone leave.

Joe was indeed smart that way, in that he planned for his agenda, admittedly, years ahead of time. He threw in Slott and many other incentives to get people to stay. He knew his agenda would be devisive and it IS.

 

[spider greg]

The mentality by many posters who spend time on here (or elsewhere) is that the rule is you can only say "good things" about the current state of spidey...or don't say anything at all, if you even have the slightest (to major) qualm with it.

Quite frankly, to me anyways, until BND came out there was nothing BUT negativity on the boards. To me, it's a breath of fresh air to actually see the "good things".
Like I said in my post above, the negativity of OMD is giving the wrong impression of BND.

 

[farmernudie]

^True. Unfortunately what they did to spidey comics to "reboot" and achieve this clean slate of BND is pretty offensive to many people and doesn't feel like the spidey that many of us ever liked.

And while it is true, there are always some negatives....the amount of DISDAIN and DEVISIVENESS amongst fans talking about spidey (someone we ALL actually LOVE) is higher now than ever.

You need only to read a few sites to see that Joe's FRACTURED the fan base to a new major level.

It is devisive to the point I've not seen since Clone Saga.

This NOW is no longer people just complaining about Gwen sleeping with Norman and THOSE continuity inconsistencies or whether they like organics or not.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

I've been flipping at the store, and today's was the first issue that actually piqued my interest. HOWEVER, not enough to buy and justify this crap excuse of storytelling. By which I mean the retcon. I'm a writer, I take pride in my work, and I won't sit by and allow a magic edit button to take the place of any creativity.

 

[Norman Osborn]

I think you answered your own question.



Personally, (and I can understand why) I think a lot of the negativity towards OMD is giving people the wrong impression of BND. Before all this happened I don't how many posts I read from readers who claimed that they wanted good fun stories, and not all the "big life altering storylines" that get really old after a while. We're getting those kinds of stories now, but now even those aren't good enough. I guess it just has to do with your attitude.

But this is assuming your assessment of what's good and fun is absolute....I don't find them good or fun....I find it mediocre at best....and if you play the "well it's because you hate OMD " card then how is that any faultier a logic than someone saying "you only like it because you're a marvel zombie?"....

 

[Brand]

But this is assuming your assessment of what's good and fun is absolute....I don't find them good or fun....I find it mediocre at best....and if you play the "well it's because you hate OMD " card then how is that any faultier a logic than someone saying "you only like it because you're a marvel zombie?"....

I've used "Marvel Zombie" plenty of times, but I've never used it to refer to someone who is enjoying a book. I've always used it to refer to those people who keep buying books like ASM because they are in the habit of doing it or just can't resist even though they don't even like the book anymore; they'll keep buying whatever Marvel shoves in front of them regardless of content. Now, if you want to use the "Marvel Zombie" line on one of those people, I don't think anyone could fault your logic.

I've read the first several issues (haven't completely caught up yet) and BND certainly hasn't wowed me yet. As an out-of-continuity tale it would work fine, but there's nothing there that really blows me away. I've seen nothing in the issues that would make me say, "Boy, it's a good thing they got rid of that pesky marriage and screwed up Spidey's history, causing massive ripples in continuity that haven't/may never be addressed so I could read these stories." In a case of the end justifying the means, the end isn't enough for me in this case.

Oh, and one thing I've heard mentioned from several people is that BND is a return to simpler stories, that there won't be those constant "groundbreaking events." That's technically not true, since Slott has already stated that an upcoming arc will feature an event that will change the MU forever (possibly Secret Invasion related; we'll have to wait and see).

 

[farmernudie]

The only way...the ONLY way i could MAYBE find a way to enjoy these new alternate spidey stories,..is if i convinced myself they were a new Alternate Spider-Man series.

To me it basically is a new series...based in a different reality, since it does have an alternate history and present and things that happent o be the same are not remembered due to the whole world being mindwiped of many events or parts of events.

I just wish they had given us choices.

They could have had a spidey truly within continuity and one that was alternate like they have now and fans could've chosen which comic they wanted to buy.

 

[Super_Ludacris]

Personally I don't think I have an axe to grind but I'd wager few people even know when they have an axe to grind...and even if they did, they certainly wouldn't admit it......

...my story is similar to the rest but different......I put Spidey back on my pull list immediately after hearing Slott was on the title....and immediately dropped it again after hearing what the conclusion to OMD was.....I had it cancelled before I even got the last issue of OMD delivered.....as iloveclones alluded to....it was far too bitter a pill for me.....

...much to my surprise, I actually got the first issue of BND delivered to me....not a big deal...it's 3 bucks.......I've also subsequently read the final two issues of the first arc and the 1st ish of the second arc...(not flipped through....actually read....I spend enough dough at Coles book store that they don't mind....)

.....I still remember actually seeing the 1st ish in my stash of books and thinking to myself "great, I'm going to read this and jump back on the Spidey gravy train"....I even mentioned it to tmob.......I was surprised when after reading it my thoughts were that the first issue was an average issue of Spidey at best......and it never got better than average for me...in fact I think saying it's average is out of respect for Slott's work......"Digger" was an average arc....I didn't think this was as good as "Digger"...and once again in my opinion, it paled in comparison to the JMS Hydra arc and David's Taking Wing arc.

I can accept there's people out there who will refuse to like the new ASM, because of an axe to grind.....and I can also understand the divide between those who like and those who don't....it's personal preference.....what I can't seem to get my head around is the idea that there's people who think this new ASM is gold and I can barely scrape mediocre or average from it......and as Shin said before, with the All Star team ASM has on its titles, mediocre or average aint getting it back on this pull list

People order comics by mail? What happened to just going to the Comic book spot?

 

[Norman Osborn]

People order comics by mail? What happened to just going to the Comic book spot?

I don't have one...there's no comic book store within a 4 hour drive for me.... ...I do have a Coles Book Store and Atlantic Superstore who sell comics but only the top titles.....I also got a flea market guy but he's not terribly dependable so I usually just get "impulse" buys there.......

 

[Brand]

The only way...the ONLY way i could MAYBE find a way to enjoy these new alternate spidey stories,..is if i convinced myself they were a new Alternate Spider-Man series.

To me it basically is a new series...based in a different reality, since it does have an alternate history and present and things that happent o be the same are not remembered due to the whole world being mindwiped of many events or parts of events.

I just wish they had given us choices.

They could have had a spidey truly within continuity and one that was alternate like they have now and fans could've chosen which comic they wanted to buy.

I'll give an example. Right now, I'm reading X-Men: First Class; I have every issue. I think it's one of the best X-books out right now because it's a return to simpler stories, which I've missed TBH. Plus, you just can't beat the O5. It's a great look back at the X-Men's history.

That said, let's suppose Marvel had pulled off a huge retcon so that Uncanny, Astonishing, Adjectiveless, and the other X-books were canned and the X-Men's history was retconned in some way so that First Class was the only book being released. If they had done that, I (along with a lot of other readers, I imagine) would have been just as upset as people are now, if not more. First Class works great for what it is, but regardless of how much I love it now it shouldn't be the main X-book.

Similarly, Marvel could have put out a "Spider-Man: Missing Scenes" or something if they wanted to have a series with him from the 70's. What they did instead just seems unnecessary and wasteful.

 

[wolvie2020]

In my opinion, I think the stories are just going to get better as time goes on...

Let's face it, there's an All-Star team of writers that are all banging their heads together and coming up with some decent and at times cool ideas (some will work, some won't, we'll see...) and for the first time since Spidey basically had only one book, things will read like a nice cohesive storyline. Sure, some stories may come off as "stinkers"... that happens in comics. But I can really appreciate the efforts that the new writers are putting into the book... even with an initial crappy set-up, and I appreciate the people who have been openly negative of BND to have at least attempted to try it.

What I don't like is when a few nay-sayers make blatant claims that the people liking BND are a bunch of stupid morons et al... for example... "To many fanboys around here with their lips attached to Slott's ass to even see how craptastic ASM still is."

Highly agreed

 

[spider greg]

But this is assuming your assessment of what's good and fun is absolute....I don't find them good or fun....I find it mediocre at best....and if you play the "well it's because you hate OMD " card then how is that any faultier a logic than someone saying "you only like it because you're a marvel zombie?"....

I would never be arrogant enough to say that, "whatever I like is the best and what everyone else likes pretty much blows." I just don't want anyone to not read Spidey for the wrong reasons, or because they're going out of their way to not like the story. It's a disservice to themselves and to the industry in general. On the subject of arrogance, when the marriage was dissolved I don't know how many posts I read where people were saying "They can't get rid of the marriage it's what I grew up and that's the way it's gotta be!" it reminded me of my daughter when she doesn't get her way. That to me sounds more to the tone of somebody saying they know what's "good and fun is absolute."

I've used "Marvel Zombie" plenty of times, but I've never used it to refer to someone who is enjoying a book. I've always used it to refer to those people who keep buying books like ASM because they are in the habit of doing it or just can't resist even though they don't even like the book anymore; they'll keep buying whatever Marvel shoves in front of them regardless of content. Now, if you want to use the "Marvel Zombie" line on one of those people, I don't think anyone could fault your logic.

I'm not sure if this was addressed towards me, but I'll comment anyways.t: I'm not a "comic collector" or a "Marvel zombie" I'm a Spider-man collector, (though I have read some other titles from time to time) I have a room in my basement filled with more Spidey stuff then I know what to do with, and I love doing it. But in all honesty, after reading stories like "Sins past" and "The Other" I was getting ready to chuck it all and seriously stop.These stories were just horrendous and it didn't look like it was going to get any better. The only thing that kept me on board was persistent rumours that the marriage was going and we would get back the Spider-man stories I enjoy most of all, and I got just that and I'm glad I stayed. I'm not praising these stories because I'm a "Marvel zombie" I'm praising these stories because I really like these kind of stories. If others don't, that's okay.

Oh, and one thing I've heard mentioned from several people is that BND is a return to simpler stories, that there won't be those constant "groundbreaking events." That's technically not true, since Slott has already stated that an upcoming arc will feature an event that will change the MU forever (possibly Secret Invasion related; we'll have to wait and see).

I don't see it as a big deal, Spidey's always had peripheral part in Big summer events. (Secret wars and up)

 

[moraldeficiency]

I would never be arrogant enough to say that, "whatever I like is the best and what everyone else likes pretty much blows." I just don't want anyone to not read Spidey for the wrong reasons, or because they're going out of their way to not like the story. It's a disservice to themselves and to the industry in general. On the subject of arrogance, when the marriage was dissolved I don't know how many posts I read where people were saying "They can't get rid of the marriage it's what I grew up and that's the way it's gotta be!" it reminded me of my daughter when she doesn't get her way. That to me sounds more to the tone of somebody saying they know what's "good and fun is absolute."

I'm not sure if this was addressed towards me, but I'll comment anyways.t: I'm not a "comic collector" or a "Marvel zombie" I'm a Spider-man collector, (though I have read some other titles from time to time) I have a room in my basement filled with more Spidey stuff then I know what to do with, and I love doing it. But in all honesty, after reading stories like "Sins past" and "The Other" I was getting ready to chuck it all and seriously stop.These stories were just horrendous and it didn't look like it was going to get any better. The only thing that kept me on board was persistent rumours that the marriage was going and we would get back the Spider-man stories I enjoy most of all, and I got just that and I'm glad I stayed. I'm not praising these stories because I'm a "Marvel zombie" I'm praising these stories because I really like these kind of stories. If others don't, that's okay.

I don't see it as a big deal, Spidey's always had peripheral part in Big summer events. (Secret wars and up)

Luckily, I am that arrogant. Your comparison at the end of the first paragraph doesn't relate. The first is a personal statement involving someone's relation in life to a fictional character. The good and fun statement is a statement of a current state in a fictional story.

So you hated all the stories which were formulated to make this change easier to take, but you never stopped collecting? I understand you're just a fundamental collector that will buy regardless, but if you didn't have that collector bug would you ever stop reading and giving money to a product you disagreeded with? I'm just curious from the collector mentality when it's appropriate to do something about your disapproval.

Does anyone not want pete to be central to an event? Personally I always hated that nonsense.

To the guy dropping: You're really missing out on some great stories, Iron Fist, AtI, ASG, Capt., Iron Man and Daredevil are all pretty kick ass right now.

 

[Super_Ludacris]

Speaking of which, is Marvel Zombies 2 any good? Ive been thinking of picking it up.

 

[shinlyle]

Speaking of which, is Marvel Zombies 2 any good? Ive been thinking of picking it up.

It's thoroughly entertaining, IMHO.

It's been great watching the post-zombie Earth-folk and the diveded zombies interacting. Good Stuff.

 

[Jick]

know why I didn't quit Marvel yet?
.......Deadpool. the best.
Ultimate Spider-Man is so good, too. who read the Clone Saga and Death of a Goblin knows what I'm talking about.

 

[spider greg]

Luckily, I am that arrogant. Your comparison at the end of the first paragraph doesn't relate. The first is a personal statement involving someone's relation in life to a fictional character. The good and fun statement is a statement of a current state in a fictional story.

I think I see what you're trying to say, but I don't really see a contradiction. Sorry if I didn't word it correctly.

So you hated all the stories which were formulated to make this change easier to take, but you never stopped collecting?

LOL!I knew after I wrote that someone would say this. *shakes fist in the air* I never said I hated the stories that led to BND. I bought the Civil WAR limited series issues (the first time I've bought a crossover event) and enjoyed them (thought the ending was anti-climatic)
I enjoyed the Sensational stories, I enjoyed the Deb Whitman stories, and I enjoyed Back in Black. I didn't hate OMD but thought it could've been handled a bit more delicately, perhaps with a different character it could've been a better story. Who knows.

I understand you're just a fundamental collector that will buy regardless, but if you didn't have that collector bug would you ever stop reading and giving money to a product you disagreeded with? I'm just curious from the collector mentality when it's appropriate to do something about your disapproval.

I explained in my post above why I almost quit. Let's reverse the situation, if you found out that the marriage was going to be dissolved and decided to quit, only to find out it was temporary and that in a year it would find it's way back to the way you like it. Would you have stopped reading? Be honest.

 

[Norman Osborn]

know why I didn't quit Marvel yet?
.......Deadpool. the best.
Ultimate Spider-Man is so good, too. who read the Clone Saga and Death of a Goblin knows what I'm talking about.

Isn't Deadpool cancelled?

 

[moraldeficiency]

I think I see what you're trying to say, but I don't really see a contradiction. Sorry if I didn't word it correctly.

It's not that, it's just the comparison doesn't stand at all. It seems like you were reaching for a way to show how childish some people who didn't agree with you were.

LOL!I knew after I wrote that someone would say this. *shakes fist in the air* I never said I hated the stories that led to BND. I bought the Civil WAR limited series issues (the first time I've bought a crossover event) and enjoyed them (thought the ending was anti-climatic)
I enjoyed the Sensational stories, I enjoyed the Deb Whitman stories, and I enjoyed Back in Black. I didn't hate OMD but thought it could've been handled a bit more delicately, perhaps with a different character it could've been a better story. Who knows.

I was actually asking an honest question. I'm talking about all stories from sin's past up to OMD. I guess I didn't understand that when you said you were getting ready to drop all spider-man titles that you actually meant you were indifferent to the matter. Actually I still don't understand what you were going for with that expect to express your displeasure at the direction of the stories and characters.

I explained in my post above why I almost quit. Let's reverse the situation, if you found out that the marriage was going to be dissolved and decided to quit, only to find out it was temporary and that in a year it would find it's way back to the way you like it. Would you have stopped reading? Be honest.

(It's been a lot longer than a year since sins past)

Yes, you explained the stories were "horrendous" which apparently didn't mean you "hated" them (I'm getting you a dictionary for your next birthday).

Ok, reversing the situation. Yeah, I generally bail on most horrible gimicks and poor writing regardless of the outcome. I never said I didn't want a single pete, or to be rid of MJ. I'm a fan of the character, Pete makes the decisions and choices I wish I could. Makes me want to be a better man. When my hero starts acting in a way that I, with all my questionable morals, clearly sees as @ucked up, then I have a problem that I cannot support. Wouldn't matter the result, it's doing the hard thing and not just taking the easy out that makes a hero a hero.

I just would have liked to have been treated as someone with intelligence with the storyline. Instead we got a editorial mandate which was to make Pete's life as crappy and impossible as possible so when the change came about it wouldn't be so horrible. If I kicked you in the balls every day, then suddenly went to just slapping you in the face, you might be happy because you're so used to me kicking your nuts in, but it still sucks.