Spidey never actually defeated Ock once

[Vile]

The guy can climb buildings and hurl cars with tentacles that can withstand large cutting tools, intense heat and magnetism...

What? They can't deflect bullets now? We've seen Octopus do this...what? hundreds of times throughout the comic books?

Please.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

I never understood that - since when does the mighty Dr Octopus run from a handful of cops?

Octopus should have slaughtered the cops instead of kidnapping an old woman. *rolls eyes*

Is a PG movie, there's your answer

 

[Vile]

He slaughtered a hospital full of surgeons - there's my responce.

Again, please.

 

[Trevor Goodchild]

It's not like in movie reality his tentacles could be as fast as a shower of bullets.

 

[Vile]

....Movie reality?

Are you serious?

Le sigh.

 

[Trevor Goodchild]

Alright, scratch that and forget you ever read it then.

It's not like his tentacles could be as fast as a shower of bullets.

 

[Vile]

A shower? What? 2 officers with handguns?

But, again, thats besides the point - we've seen Octopus do this...how many dozens of times in the comics?

If Spidey can dodge bullets, why can't Octopus' tentacles?

It could have happened - but Raimi just had to get Aunt May into an action scene...along with her stunning Umbrella-save.

 

[Trevor Goodchild]

I simply don't see this as a 'flaw' worthy of being discussed (I know, look who’s talking&#8230.
Yes, he probably could've simply taken the chance and effort to dodge the bullets and punch them out. But being in a hurry and in the heat of the moment he went the easier and faster way to get them off his back.

 

[Geko]

The guy can climb buildings and hurl cars with tentacles that can withstand large cutting tools, intense heat and magnetism...

What? They can't deflect bullets now? We've seen Octopus do this...what? hundreds of times throughout the comic books?

Please.

Sure we've seen that hundreds of times in the comics, but in the comics he routinely upgrades his tentacles. So in the comics, did he do it in his first appearance?
In the movie, the tentacles are DESIGNED to lift heavy objects and be impervious to heat and magnetism, but they weren't designed for the speed and accuracy it would take to dodge a bullet.
And even if they theoretically could, would you want to test that theory (with your life) if you could just avoid it by taking a hostage?

 

[Matt]

The biggest sin of all in that movie.

Raimi hasn't got a damn clue sometimes.

I disagree. If comic Octavius saw his project failing, he would abort. Octavius is not a bad man per se...he is a very stubborn arrogant man...but not evil. He believes he cannot be wrong, he believes that his goals are worthy of any action to accomplish them, but I believe if Octavius in the comics were faced with a similiar situation he would stop it by any means necessary. Doc Ock isn't your "Destroy/take over the world" type villian.

And just for the record, Pete beats the bejesus out of Ock in their final confrontation, he electricutes him. He definitely defeats Doc Ock, its his machine he can't defeat.

 

[The Joker]

I disagree. If comic Octavius saw his project failing, he would abort. Octavius is not a bad man per se...he is a very stubborn arrogant man...but not evil. He believes he cannot be wrong, he believes that his goals are worthy of any action to accomplish them, but I believe if Octavius in the comics were faced with a similiar situation he would stop it by any means necessary.

Ock is not evil?? You cannot be serious.Would you like me to post a few comic scans where he murders innocent people?? Tries to poison the city?? Blow it up maybe?? Drown it radiation?? Take your pick,I've got them all.

Doc Ock isn't your "Destroy/take over the world" type villian.

LOL! Please tell me you're joking.I gotta whip out the scanner.I've got several Ock arcs where he tries to take over the world.Pics coming up later folks.Stay tuned.

EDIT: Go here for response: http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227029

 

[Mr. Socko]

Does anyone know more about Ock then you and Stan Lee?

 

[Comic Book Boy]

The biggest sin of all in that movie.

Raimi hasn't got a damn clue sometimes.



LOL!

Yeah that's why the Goblin beat the living snot out of Spidey before being impaled with his own glider,blood dribbling from his mouth and all.

Good one Raimi,considering you believe it solves nothing

And the reprocussions of that event are still effecting their lives, so Raimi's point is valid.

 

[Comic Book Boy]

Ock is not evil?? You cannot be serious.Would you like me to post a few comic scans where he murders innocent people?? Tries to poison the city?? Blow it up maybe?? Drown it radiation?? Take your pick,I've got them all.



LOL! Please tell me you're joking.I gotta whip out the scanner.I've got several Ock arcs where he tries to take over the world.Pics coming up later folks.Stay tuned.

EDIT: Go here for response: http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227029

Matt was clearly reffering to the MOVIE version of Ock, which would make him right.

 

[The Joker]

Matt was clearly reffering to the MOVIE version of Ock, which would make him right.

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8445492&postcount=18

 

[Spider-Girl™]

The comics and movies are too different mediums with two different audiences, Raimi can't please everyone, but he has to make the story believable to both audiences, and it would have been a major flop if he would have made Ock a personality replica of GG1. Just like in SM-3 were everyone is hoping GG2 is not just another GG1. I think Sam did a wonderful job with Doc Ock.

 

[The Joker]

The comics and movies are too different mediums with two different audiences

So?? Movies audiences seem to accept the comic version of Jonah Jameson,Aunt May,Green Goblin and Harry Osborn,Batman,The Joker,Catwoman,The Scarecrow,Blade,Whistler,Magneto,Xavier and so many more comic book characters put on screen quite faithfully.What's your line of reasoning here??

Raimi can't please everyone, but he has to make the story believable to both audiences, and it would have been a major flop if he would have made Ock a personality replica of GG1

The last time I checked,he did make Ock have some of GG's personality.The whole talking to the arms,evil 2nd personality thing.Seems Raimi has a thing for schizo type villains who have a devil whispering in their ear.

Ock doesn't talk to himself,he doesn't say "We" when referring to himself.That's Venom's gig.

Comic Osborn and Octavius have two different personalities.Osborn is the driven business man and father.Octavius is the arrogant and egotistical scientist.They are not replicas of eachother.Different characters,different personalities,different motivations,different villains.

You want to talk about copying personalities?? Which of Spidey's villains is a nice scientist,who is happily married,a friend and mentor to Peter,and becomes a victim of his own experiment,and turns good at the end?? No it's not Octavius,but he was in SM-2 briefly.

Btw you spoke of making a story believable.You really think evil robot tentacles,who's A.I. is only programmed to control and sustain fusion reactions,have the smarts to tell Octavius to rob a bank?? How do they even know what a bank is?? Or money for that matter?? This is believable to you??

just like in SM-3 were everyone is hoping GG2 is not just another GG1.

How could anyone have that fear?? Norman and Harry are two different people with different personalities.Same as Norman and Otto.

 

[Spider-Girl™]

Whoa Ock, I wasn't posting to get my words dissected and analyzed, I was just saying there are people out there who dont read the comics, that would not pick up on alot of things in the movies. Not all characters can patrayed comic-ly on the big screen. Sometimes "Artistic" changes are needed. If Ock would have been another villain that was out to kill and cause mass chaos in the movie, he would have been just another Goblin to some people. You have to learn to see things from a non comic perspective also.

I didn't say anything about Ock saying we, so that was completely random. lol.

I have just seen posts on here,the official boards, and random other spidey/hero boards talking about people hoping harry isnt just another GG1. I am not here to argue, cause I know when it comes to the comics, youve got me beat. I was just here stating my opinion, thats all

 

[The Joker]

Whoa Ock, I wasn't posting to get my words dissected and analyzed

I was not dissecting and analyzing.I was addressing each point you made for discussion,as is the nature of these boards

Not all characters can patrayed comic-ly on the big screen

Maybe so,but Ock's not one of them.He can easily be translated faithfully on screen.It's just Raimi chose to make him sympathetic.When that is not the nature of a villain like Ock.

Sometimes "Artistic" changes are needed

I agree.But there are changes made that are also tasteless and unnecessary.Like those made to Ock IMO.

If Ock would have been another villain that was out to kill and cause mass chaos in the movie, he would have been just another Goblin to some people

But Ock did kill and cause mass chaos in the movie.You don't seem to understand that these villains are seperated by motivation and personality.Can you name one of Spidey's major villains who doesn't cause chaos in some form or another or kill for that matter??

It's how and why they do it that makes them unique.

I didn't say anything about Ock saying we, so that was completely random. lol.

No that was my own observation.You said copying other villain's personality traits was a bad thing.Well we had Octavius as a Curt Connors clone,the schizo trait of talking to his evil half ala GG,and referring to himself as "we" like Venom does.

I am not here to argue, cause I know when it comes to the comics, youve got me beat. I was just here stating my opinion, thats all

My dear I am not arguing with you.I am debating with you.You offered your opinion and I opened up a discussion with you about it.That's what we do around here.

I don't think I showed any hostlity or rudeness to you did I?? So please don't think of my posts as directing hostility towards you,because that is not their intention

 

[Spider-Girl™]

Ah sorry, didnt mean to seem %^$chy towards you, some of the forums I have been on, some people are quick to jump on others, didnt mean to place you in the category. I do agree with wholey that Doc Ock didnt seem in character. But with what they did to him, I guess I don't mind it, I have only read a handful of comics in my life. And Molina did a good job with his character, I was thrown off when he didnt have the accent though, I guess thats what I get for watching the animated series LOL.

 

[The Joker]

Ah sorry, didnt mean to seem %^$chy towards you, some of the forums I have been on, some people are quick to jump on others, didnt mean to place you in the category

No problem

I do agree with wholey that Doc Ock didnt seem in character. But with what they did to him, I guess I don't mind it, I have only read a handful of comics in my life. And Molina did a good job with his character

I loved every minute of Molina's Ock.I really did.I thought he was great.He was the best thing in the movie IMO.But the changes made to his character were unnecessary.I have nothing against changes.Look how cool they made his tentacles and his costume.He looked more badass than ever.But the characterization was off.

I was thrown off when he didnt have the accent though, I guess thats what I get for watching the animated series LOL.

LOL! Alot of people made that mistake.Especially after we saw the first trailer.People were like "Hey why didn't he have the german accent??".

Funny seeing as Octavius was born and raised in New York.

 

[SpideyLad]

Am I the only person who finds Doc Ock's infinite knowledge on the character scary...?

 

[The Amazing Lee]

It's worth noting in the DVD commentary, Raimi says, "I don't think violence really solves anything...."

that statement oozes with so much Irony!

Considering this is the director/creator of Evil Dead we are talking about

 

[Infinity9999x]

I still say the most annoying thing out of all the fights is the fact that Spidey SHOULD HAVE TAKEN OCK OUT WITH ONE PUNCH. He was just a normal guy, Spidey can lift a gigantic wall and stop a train...but he can't knock out a fat scientist when he hits him....yaa. That pissed me off.

 

[Everyman]

Octavius was an arrogant,egotistical,power hungry man who saw himself above everyone else.He was your classic sociopath.A seething cauldron of anger and resentment towards others.When the accident bonded him to his tentacles,his inhibitions were removed and he lashed out because he could.He had the power to do what he wanted.

He was never a nice scientist guy,married,and giving love advice to people.And he was never a victim villain either.He did what he does because he wanted to.As I said above,he certainly was never a redemptive villain.That's all the Lizard's gig.

I thoroughly enjoyed Alfred Molina as Ock.Best thing in SM-2 IMO.But certain aspects of the character were not Doctor Octopus at all.

I do think that Doctor Octopus was modified on the big screen, in many ways these modifications could be corrected in a subsequent movie (presuming he survived in the end of SM2), but I wonder if it was to thate xtend. Sure, he isn't as cold and selfish before the accident, but as I mentionned in a thread (http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127430), there was a dark side in him from the beginning. Yes, movie Ock had a wife, but when the cold fusion experiment started going wrong, he didn't care too much about her safety, being right about his experiment seemed much more important. Octavius was, underneath an amiable personnality (and if I remember correctly the comic book Otto Octavius was nice to some people), already arrogant and overconfident, and more interested in the results than the risks taken to attain them.