Age of Ultron SPOILERS INSIDE What you didn't like about Avengers: Age of Ultron - Flaws/Critiques

[I Am The Knight]

I think she was within reach, but the cradle wasn't.

 

[Just_Human]

I think she was within reach, but the cradle wasn't.

But Ultron could have gotten in the Quinjet and grabbed the craddle

Or could have Killed Barton, take control of the quinjet and gotten away with the cradle

 

[KangConquers]

Two complaints I keep seeing that need addressing:

The jokes: We're 11 films and 7 years into the Marvel Cinematic Universe. The jocular tone defines the product. If you can't accept it, move along.

The Banner/ Natasha Romance: So much of this hatred is based on biases towards the source material. The MCU journey of various characters is going to deviate from the source material overtime. Longing for a Betty Banner that represented arguably the worst acting performance in entire film series is silly. This was a natural extension of their initial connection...there were problems with it, but I'll dovetail on these in my complaints.


My biggest issues:

Where is the first act?: It feels like there's an entire 45 minutes of the film missing. You know, the part where we see how the Avengers took over for SHIELD, how Stark came out of retirement, how the Avengers wound up in Stark tower, how Banner and Natasha's relationship started. etc.

Baron Why Even Bother? Why did they bother to use a B-tier villain like Baron Strucker if they were going to A. Make him an impotent wuss B. Kill him off after 2 1/2 minutes of combined screen time. They could've used a smaller name character, or even made one up.

Thor: In Avengers, Joss struggled to use Cap effectively, routinely reducing him to a joke butt. Thor is the big 4 avenger who gets hosed the most in the film. Except for one or two funny lines, and the awesome Thor/ Iron Man/ Vision trifecta shot, Thor does absolutely nothing of merit in this film.

In fact, much of what's terrible in this film involves Thor, is perfectly represented by the Prince of Asgard. He is cut short, used to awkwardly shoe-horn in Infinity War setup, and used as the impetus for Vision's awakening, in a Doctor Frankenstein moment that might rank as the MCU's single worst 30 seconds. I sat there mortified at what I was watching, waiting for Thor to throw back his head and say "It's aliiiive."

No accountability The Avengers create a genocidal robot, and no one says a damn thing? The other Avengers don't try to court martial Banner/ Stark? Everyone just pretends this never happened? Urm. Okay.

Failure to set up Civil War: Instead of leaving Stark and Rogers at odds, this film leaves them in full bromance mode. Leaving them at odds would've given the feud more momentum heading into Civil War, allowing them to skip some of the setup. Ultron can also not be used as a point of contention between the two, as it's now in the forgotten and forgiven past, and Steve bringing it up again will make him sound like a catty old house wife who never lets you live down your short comings, instead of someone on a morally higher ground.

The Crunch Factor: Fans always complain about these films being too short, but this is one instance in which a full 3 hours would've enabled the characters to each get a fair shake, screen time wise/ development.

Why not just put Jarvis in Ultron's body in the first place? The film never gives us a compelling reason why Stark would prefer to use a mysterious alien intelligence in Ultron to the A.I. he's trusted with everything for years.

 

[Just_Human]

About the 1st act: the episode of AOS that aired before AOU release set up the Avengers' attack on HYDRA.
Stark never retired.
And at the end of A1, Stark was planning to rebuild the Stark Tower as the Avengers tower, with each Avenger having his space, floor, whatever

No accountabilty: did you miss what Hill said to Stark?
And read the synopsis that was recently released for Cap 3 : Civil War

 

[Marchesk]

Why not just put Jarvis in Ultron's body in the first place? The film never gives us a compelling reason why Stark would prefer to use a mysterious alien intelligence in Ultron to the A.I. he's trusted with everything for years.

Exactly. So Tony ignored that Jarvis was already an AI, then later Jarvis is shown to be an AI protecting the nukes from Ultron, and then Jarvis is worthy of being put into the Vision body. So why not just use Jarvis in the first place?

Things like this just bug me. It's really inconsistent story telling.

 

[KangConquers]

About the 1st act: the episode of AOS that aired before AOU release set up the Avengers' attack on HYDRA.
Stark never retired.
And at the end of A1, Stark was planning to rebuild the Stark Tower as the Avengers tower, with each Avenger having his space, floor, whatever

No accountabilty: did you miss what Hill said to Stark?
And read the synopsis that was recently released for Cap 3 : Civil War

Stark clearly retired at the end of Iron Man 3. He had the arc reactor removed from his chest and blew up billions of dollars worth of Iron Man suits.

You shouldn't have to watch an episode of a tv show to inform a movie. The answers should be in the film itself.

A passing comment and a synopsis doesn't mean we saw any accountability within the film itself. If this was the only film you ever saw, you'd think Tony got off scot free.

 

[KangConquers]

Exactly. So Tony ignored that Jarvis was already an AI, then later Jarvis is shown to be an AI protecting the nukes from Ultron, and then Jarvis is worthy of being put into the Vision body. So why not just use Jarvis in the first place?

Things like this just bug me. It's really inconsistent story telling.

I also hate what a hypocrite phase 2 has made Stark.

In Avengers 1 he mocked Fury for wanting "a nuclear deterrent. Cause that always works, right Nick?" Suddenly he creates 42 Iron Man suits in IM3, and then Ultron in AoU, in the name of preemptive war.

 

[Human Torch]

Two complaints I keep seeing that need addressing:

The jokes: We're 11 films and 7 years into the Marvel Cinematic Universe. The jocular tone defines the product. If you can't accept it, move along.
\

Thank you! Frankly I'm so tired of hearing how "bad" the humor was. If you don't like it,you can always watch MOS again and relish it's somber tone till the cows come home.

 

[Mr.T]

I also hate what a hypocrite phase 2 has made Stark.

In Avengers 1 he mocked Fury for wanting "a nuclear deterrent. Cause that always works, right Nick?" Suddenly he creates 42 Iron Man suits in IM3, and then Ultron in AoU, in the name of preemptive war.

This is what's bugged me about Stark's transition from Phase 1 to Phase 2. During IronMan , he's blowing up his own tech for fear it could harm the world. Yet, here we are in AoU with him developing tech that does indeed damn near destroy the world. The odd giggle scene where Thor grabs him by the neck keeps entering my mind where he explains his desperation to do this.
Cap says it best when he tells Stark a whole lot of innocent people get hurt when some tries to stop a war before one even starts (or something like that). i thought Stark had these same values before phase 2 started?

 

[Just_Human]

Not the same

In IM1, before being captured, Stark was selling weapons to the army. Also, his tech fell on the hands of the 10 rings

After that he has created IM/drones to protect the good guys, without the politics and shady transactions

Obviously it has backfired lol

 

[Lorus]

This is what's bugged me about Stark's transition from Phase 1 to Phase 2. During IronMan , he's blowing up his own tech for fear it could harm the world. Yet, here we are in AoU with him developing tech that does indeed damn near destroy the world. The odd giggle scene where Thor grabs him by the neck keeps entering my mind where he explains his desperation to do this.
Cap says it best when he tells Stark a whole lot of innocent people get hurt when some tries to stop a war before one even starts (or something like that). i thought Stark had these same values before phase 2 started?

It all makes sense. Stark is an engineer, he sees problems and he builds solutions. The Iron Man suit was his initial solution, to his escape and his redemption. As the MCU has developed though, the world has become much less comfortable for Tony Stark. The Avengers forces him to accept that, despite what he may have initially thought, there is a universe full of things he can't understand or know. Hence why, in IM3 he is drawn into obsession, building suit after suit as a contingency for something that may never happen. He gets through that particular phase by reaffirming his identity as an engineer, and rejecting the physical representation of his dependance on the suit (the arc reactor) and blowing up the suits that represented his obsessive PTSD. He has a new outlook and drives off screwdriver and Dum-E in hand, ready to build something new.

When we arrive in AOU, Stark's new mentality is exploited by Wanda. She can see how his fears will drive him and shows him a problem he would be compelled to solve, but is also way too big for one guy. Ultron is seen by Stark as a permanent solution to extraterrestrial threats. A direct, engineers response to his vision. Everything Stark has done has been a result of character development over the films.

 

[Silvermoon]

Stark clearly retired at the end of Iron Man 3. He had the arc reactor removed from his chest and blew up billions of dollars worth of Iron Man suits.

Last lines of the film "I am Iron Man" - the whole point of that movie is that it's not the suits that make him Iron Man, and it's not the arc reactor (we know it doesn't need to be embedded in his chest to have functioning suits - look at War Machine). It's him, who he is - his brain, the way he thinks about things, etc.... After Avengers, his PTSD resulted in an obsession to just crank out armor after armor for different scenarios, and whipping them out at a ridiculous rate (35 new armors made in 6 months time, less than a week for each one, likely didn't go through any testing to sort out any design flaws or bugs before moving onto the next one).

In between IM3 and AOU is (approx) 2 1/2 years and he's only built 3 armors for himself in that time (the one in the opening scene, Hulkbuster, and the one he wears at the Battle of Sokovia). He DOES want to be able to step back and focus more on Pepper and on other things, that's why after IM3 he shifts his view to finding a way to protect the world that does not require him to be in the armor all the time and that would allow him to, in fact, eventually retire (refer to his conversation with Steve at Barton's farm). IM3 was the start of that desire - not the end of it (and then Scarlet Witch's vision caused him to take that desire further due to his fears of what would happen if he didn't find a solution).

You shouldn't have to watch an episode of a tv show to inform a movie. The answers should be in the film itself.

Personally, even if I hadn't seen ep 19 of AoS, I think the opening battle was sufficiently explained after it was over. Tony (or maybe it was Cap - I admit I still need to see this again) comments to Thor about how the past several months they'd been doing these raids on Hydra bases to try and find the scepter.

I was fine with the movie starting off the way it did/just jumping right into the action. I also was fine without them feeling the need to do an info dump of what everyone has been up to in the past year or so (since the events of TWS) - enough time has passed between the events of the films, that I think some logical assumptions can be made with what we're given on screen.

If that all makes sense (apologies if it didn't)

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Agree with all of this, Ultron could have really been something special, but wasn't established as a threat at all. Even Cap could fight him to a standstill, were as in the first movie, Loki wiped the floor with him.

This is a problem with these team up films or shows. Look... I love Cap, Widow, Falcon, Batman, Green Arrow, ect. They each bring different and important skill sets to their teams. When written well they can show how less than spectacular skill sets can actually be more important than razzle dazzle "super powers" and in the past I think that was an interesting take... But we've gone over the line now(Thank you 30 years of "BatGod") and there are aspects of AOU that show this.

Look... If the threat that a villain poses is supposed to be so great as to warrant the involvement of super heroes as opposed to the conventional forces of the legit military or law enforcement then even with the skills of a Cap/Widow/Hawkeye/Falcon or Batman/Green Arrow said villain(s) still must come across as really threatening to those specific heroes in a one on one confrontation.

Yet in AOU we got Widow, Cap and Hawkeye pretty much one shoting drones left and right. Makes me wonder what a platoon of soldiers or a modern police tactical squad would have been able to do? Yes, I get that this is a team, and that these characters need to be presented as heroic equals. But does that heroic equality have to translate in such a way that it's only means of expression is that Captain America can somehow take on threats HEAD ON that he really has no right to and either holding his own or outright defeating them? The movie's them selves are a little schizo on this, or at least the context is a tad paradoxical. In A1we see that while Cap was going to go down fighting, physically he was not going to win in a one on one, punch for punch fight with a "God". And that's fine. Now in AOU Cap can seemingly stymie a "murderbot" for a good chunk of time (that was a great sequence, great visually but I wasn't buying it for a second), when we see that the "drones" themselves have enough power to rip through concrete and lift away tractor trailers? Well then... Cap should have been grabbed by Ultron and pretty much had his neck snapped like a twig, cuz I for damn sure hope that Ultron would have made his own body far more impressive and powerful than one of his "drones". But... Nope. Super soldier, Asgardian God, genius in a mech suit... All pretty much the same thing. This for me is a problem, in the same way Batman throwing a Batarang at Sinestro and it somehow being effective or Queen apparently being the key to a fight against Reverse Flash while freaking Firestorm and the Flash are present makes me cringe. I get that these are extraordinary people, even the ones with lower key skill sets or "powers", and that in order super teams like the JLA or Avengers to work and live up to it's promise that the heroes have to battle side by side against the same threat... But there are limits and there are better ways of doing that than simply having Cap and Widow and Hawkeye tearing through the bad guys like tissue paper in almost the same way that Thor, Vision, Iron Man and Hulk do.

This was one of my problems with this film, and can only hope that we don't get too much of the same in the JL film with Batman and similar characters on the DC side of the street. And when it comes to the MCU and looming threats like Thanos I can only hope that we don't have like Widow and Cap joining the fray and having their punches and kicks affect The Mad Titan in IW.

 

[Spitfire]

I think a lot of criticism stems from the lack of a good reason for the team to be assembled.

While I watched the opening scene I wondered why the entire team needed to assemble to take down a Hydra base (they didn't know the twins were there). It felt like the sort of threat that could be included in a Cap solo movie, with him destroying the base with the help of Widow, Falcon and SHIELD.

Ultron also didn't feel threatening enough. The Chitauri posed an unexpected invasion and there wasn't time for a military response so the Avengers role was clear and justified. I just didn't feel this level of threat from Ultron.

 

[Lorus]

I think a lot of criticism stems from the lack of a good reason for the team to be assembled.

While I watched the opening scene I wondered why the entire team needed to assemble to take down a Hydra base (they didn't know the twins were there). It felt like the sort of threat that could be included in a Cap solo movie, with him destroying the base with the help of Widow, Falcon and SHIELD.

Ultron also didn't feel threatening enough. The Chitauri posed an unexpected invasion and there wasn't time for a military response so the Avengers role was clear and justified. I just didn't feel this level of threat from Ultron.

Respectfully, I feel like your first criticism is missing the point. It's an Avengers movie. Taking down mad scientist terrorist cells is exactly the sort of job that the Avengers would take on. We know from TWS that SHIELD can't operate under the same directives anymore, so that's even more reason extra help is needed.

I also don't really get the second complaint. How would the military have stopped Ultron from dropping Sokovia over the world? Why would they even be involved, when Ultron has mostly been stealing equipment from robotics labs?

 

[Spitfire]

Respectfully, I feel like your first criticism is missing the point. It's an Avengers movie. Taking down mad scientist terrorist cells is exactly the sort of job that the Avengers would take on. We know from TWS that SHIELD can't operate under the same directives anymore, so that's even more reason extra help is needed.

I also don't really get the second complaint. How would the military have stopped Ultron from dropping Sokovia over the world? Why would they even be involved, when Ultron has mostly been stealing equipment from robotics labs?

The Avengers are meant to the the ultimate force on the planet, assembling only when a sufficient threat emerges. It's why you don't see other team members in solo movies (exception being Widow in TWS) - the threats in these movies are appropriate for one hero to tackle.

A more serious threat from Hydra would have been better. The team can socialise but have them go into battle together only when the stakes are very high.

I think the absence of ongoing interest from Russia, NATO etc. following the raid on the Hydra base is a bit strange considering the dangerous tech that was discovered (and conveniently left) there for Ultron to use. It was weird to see no intelligence agency follow up on this and let the Avengers know he was based there so they could stop him earlier.

 

[I Am The Knight]

This is a problem with these team up films or shows. Look... I love Cap, Widow, Falcon, Batman, Green Arrow, ect. They each bring different and important skill sets to their teams. When written well they can show how less than spectacular skill sets can actually be more important than razzle dazzle "super powers" and in the past I think that was an interesting take... But we've gone over the line now(Thank you 30 years of "BatGod") and there are aspects of AOU that show this.

Look... If the threat that a villain poses is supposed to be so great as to warrant the involvement of super heroes as opposed to the conventional forces of the legit military or law enforcement then even with the skills of a Cap/Widow/Hawkeye/Falcon or Batman/Green Arrow said villain(s) still must come across as really threatening to those specific heroes in a one on one confrontation.

Yet in AOU we got Widow, Cap and Hawkeye pretty much one shoting drones left and right. Makes me wonder what a platoon of soldiers or a modern police tactical squad would have been able to do? Yes, I get that this is a team, and that these characters need to be presented as heroic equals. But does that heroic equality have to translate in such a way that it's only means of expression is that Captain America can somehow take on threats HEAD ON that he really has no right to and either holding his own or outright defeating them? The movie's them selves are a little schizo on this, or at least the context is a tad paradoxical. In A1we see that while Cap was going to go down fighting, physically he was not going to win in a one on one, punch for punch fight with a "God". And that's fine. Now in AOU Cap can seemingly stymie a "murderbot" for a good chunk of time (that was a great sequence, great visually but I wasn't buying it for a second), when we see that the "drones" themselves have enough power to rip through concrete and lift away tractor trailers? Well then... Cap should have been grabbed by Ultron and pretty much had his neck snapped like a twig, cuz I for damn sure hope that Ultron would have made his own body far more impressive and powerful than one of his "drones". But... Nope. Super soldier, Asgardian God, genius in a mech suit... All pretty much the same thing. This for me is a problem, in the same way Batman throwing a Batarang at Sinestro and it somehow being effective or Queen apparently being the key to a fight against Reverse Flash while freaking Firestorm and the Flash are present makes me cringe. I get that these are extraordinary people, even the ones with lower key skill sets or "powers", and that in order super teams like the JLA or Avengers to work and live up to it's promise that the heroes have to battle side by side against the same threat... But there are limits and there are better ways of doing that than simply having Cap and Widow and Hawkeye tearing through the bad guys like tissue paper in almost the same way that Thor, Vision, Iron Man and Hulk do.

This was one of my problems with this film, and can only hope that we don't get too much of the same in the JL film with Batman and similar characters on the DC side of the street. And when it comes to the MCU and looming threats like Thanos I can only hope that we don't have like Widow and Cap joining the fray and having their punches and kicks affect The Mad Titan in IW.

Agreed. I actually had this problem with the first film too. If these aliens are so weak that they can be taken down by a guy with a bow and arrow and a woman with a beretta, why do we even need the Avengers. Just unleash the Hulk on those Leviathans and be done with it. And why is the military not getting involved? Why is the first option to nuke the city?

And in AoU, how come Ultron's repulsor blast only barely hurts Cap? How can he go toe to toe with a mini Transformer? Sigh. Don't get me wrong, I loved seeing Cap fighting Ultron, but I am not sure how strong Cap is supposed to be anymore.

 

[Human Torch]

Frankly I'm disappointed in the running joke that they never actually say Avengers Assemble. What's the fun now? Hearing Cap say it to the B-team?

 

[TheVileOne]

Frankly I'm disappointed in the running joke that they never actually say Avengers Assemble. What's the fun now? Hearing Cap say it to the B-team?

If he never says it in Infinity War, we riot.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

The theater I was in, made up of a good mix of geeks over 30 and youngsters (9 to 12 year olds), all of us GROANED when Joss decided to be so damned cheeky... I get the joke but... Sorry... It would have bee so much better had he ended it with Evans saying it. It would have been a fist pump moment. It far from ruins the film that he did it like that... But C'MON SON!!!!!!!!!!

 

[KangConquers]

Thank you! Frankly I'm so tired of hearing how "bad" the humor was. If you don't like it,you can always watch MOS again and relish it's somber tone till the cows come home.

I'm not even claiming MCU superiority. It's just like going to a JJ Abrams film and *****ing about Lense flares. You know what you've signed up for. Stop *****ing or go elsewhere for entertainment.

 

[KangConquers]

I think a lot of criticism stems from the lack of a good reason for the team to be assembled.

While I watched the opening scene I wondered why the entire team needed to assemble to take down a Hydra base (they didn't know the twins were there). It felt like the sort of threat that could be included in a Cap solo movie, with him destroying the base with the help of Widow, Falcon and SHIELD.

Ultron also didn't feel threatening enough. The Chitauri posed an unexpected invasion and there wasn't time for a military response so the Avengers role was clear and justified. I just didn't feel this level of threat from Ultron.

After tearing down the opening act, I'm going to defend it a bit.


- You said Cap and friends could handle it.
- There is no Shield anymore, and Stark is bankrolling the mission. That puts
- Iron Man on the team with Cap, Widow, and Hawkeye.
- Thor is there to get Loki's scepter, and has a vested interest in seeing it brought back to Asgard.
- Banner has nothing but these people in his life, and has developed a fondness for Natasha. Given he has A. The ability to turn into an indestructible green monster B. He has a vested interest in protecting the only friends he has, it would make sense for him to come along.

 

[InJustice]

Thank you! Frankly I'm so tired of hearing how "bad" the humor was. If you don't like it,you can always watch MOS again and relish it's somber tone till the cows come home.

I'm not even claiming MCU superiority. It's just like going to a JJ Abrams film and *****ing about Lense flares. You know what you've signed up for. Stop *****ing or go elsewhere for entertainment.

It's not as black and white as you people think. You two completely missed the point about people complaining about the humour in the first place. It's not that they don't want to laugh during a superhero movie. In fact, it's a matter of balance, there is a time to be serious AND there is a time to be humorous. I liked Age of Ultron's dialogue a lot more than anything I've seen in Phase 2, but I'd be lying if I said the humour was perfect. Humour is partly the reason why Ultron isn't as threatening as it seems, and there have been scenes where comedy took priority over storytelling when it shouldn't have.

Frankly, I'm getting sick and tired of the smug MCU fans telling people to essentially **** off and go watch something else when there are legitimate criticisms for Marvel's movies.

 

[Marchesk]

It's just like going to a JJ Abrams film and *****ing about Lense flares. You know what you've signed up for.

Him turning Star Trek into a giant action movie where Spock has a love interest, of all things.

 

[Spitfire]

After tearing down the opening act, I'm going to defend it a bit.


- You said Cap and friends could handle it.
- There is no Shield anymore, and Stark is bankrolling the mission. That puts
- Iron Man on the team with Cap, Widow, and Hawkeye.
- Thor is there to get Loki's scepter, and has a vested interest in seeing it brought back to Asgard.
- Banner has nothing but these people in his life, and has developed a fondness for Natasha. Given he has A. The ability to turn into an indestructible green monster B. He has a vested interest in protecting the only friends he has, it would make sense for him to come along.

Good points. But:

- After the events of TWS wouldn't other government agencies have a keen interest in taking down Hydra after they tried to kill millions of people? The CIA were mentioned in relation to Sharon at the end of TWS for example. Other options to SHIELD could be used.

- Thor had the greatest motivation to get the sceptre back and to be fair does most of the damage in this scene (while clearly showing restraint with his powers). He probably could have done this on his own!

- The Banner/Widow romance should never be used to justify anything

I would prefer to see the entire Avengers team assembling for large threats to keep the event special. A few members tackling smaller threats is fine but keeping the entire team for milestone events would maintain the impact of seeing them together.