State Your Opinion on A Character

[Spike_x1]

Making Barry himself (inexplicably, in-story) the origin of the Speed Force really struck me as Johns at his lowest point for injecting his own fanboyisms into stories without considering whether it makes the story or characters good or not. It really came across as him saying "See, guys? Barry is important! Just look at how much more significant he is to the DCU than those other dudes! What's that you say? It's bad storytelling to just say that he created the Speed Force without bothering to elaborate on it or show how he created it? F**k you, that's how he created it. Barry Allen rocks so hard that he sent waves of awesome through all of time and space, which other people started calling the Speed Force. Yes, literally."

I can't think of a worse way for a writer to give a character a completely artificial sense of importance to readers. It boggles my damn mind.

 

[Kurosawa]

What?

Like...

Okay, I was never a huge fan of the speed force, if not in concept than in presentation. The idea that there was something like that specifically for speed, it just seemed kind of arbitrary to me. I might have liked it better if the mystical/spiritual aspects of it had been a little vaguer or disputed, or if they'd been tied to other mystical/spiritual whatsits in the DCU, but whatever. In practice it didn't bother me that much. And really, the community/shared legacy aspect it brought to the Flash family was wicked awesome.

But that...

God damn Johns, way to take the best parts of a concept and cut them out with a meat cleaver just to try and releave your hard on for the Super Friends.

Luckily for me I never liked or accepted the speed force idea.

 

[The Question]

Luckily for me I never liked or accepted the speed force idea.

Like I said, I was never a huge fan either, but this is significantly worse.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

It's the best thing that ever happened to the Flashes, as far as I'm concerned. So seeing it twisted to suit Johns' Barry fanboyism really annoys me.

 

[The Question]

It's the best thing that ever happened to the Flashes, as far as I'm concerned. So seeing it twisted to suit Johns' Barry fanboyism really annoys me.

I just could never get over how arbitrary it seemed. "So, wait, there's this energy field that is specifically all about super speed, and empowers and connects everybody who has super speed and only super speed. What?"

I don't know. Maybe it really was just the initial presentation that threw me off, it did ultimately yield a lot of awesome stuff.

Except for Speed Force constructs. That seems like it was encroaching in GL's power set a lil' too much.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The speedsters are the most physics-defying group of characters in comics, so the fact that they had a whole exotic energy field devoted entirely to them made a certain kind of pseudo-science sense to me. That it expanded to be a whole unifying undercurrent for all speedsters and took on some emotional significance just makes it all the better.

 

[The Question]

The speedsters are the most physics-defying group of characters in comics, so the fact that they had a whole exotic energy field devoted entirely to them made a certain kind of pseudo-science sense to me. That it expanded to be a whole unifying undercurrent for all speedsters and took on some emotional significance just makes it all the better.

I think what it comes down to for me really is the presentation, especially the name. If there's a speed force, it automatically makes me wonder if there's a "strength force" or a "flight force," and that just starts to get kind of silly. But the idea behind it and the results of it work just fine from a storytelling standpoint. I guess if it weren't originally described in terms that make it seem seperate from everything else and for some reason focused on just this small group then I wouldn't have had a problem. Tie it into the rest of the DCU's cosmic landscape, I think it'd work better. And open up avenues for more stories.

 

[trustyside-kick]

Making Barry himself (inexplicably, in-story) the origin of the Speed Force really struck me as Johns at his lowest point for injecting his own fanboyisms into stories without considering whether it makes the story or characters good or not. It really came across as him saying "See, guys? Barry is important! Just look at how much more significant he is to the DCU than those other dudes! What's that you say? It's bad storytelling to just say that he created the Speed Force without bothering to elaborate on it or show how he created it? F**k you, that's how he created it. Barry Allen rocks so hard that he sent waves of awesome through all of time and space, which other people started calling the Speed Force. Yes, literally."

I can't think of a worse way for a writer to give a character a completely artificial sense of importance to readers. It boggles my damn mind.

Yup.

 

[sandwraith]

Are we discussing the Flash now? And if so...Which one?

 

[Anubis]

The character we're on is Raven.

The convo however kinda ended up here due to the Blue Lanterns and how Johns has probably ruined the Green Lantern mythos and now, the Flash by making Barry the creator of f**king the Speed Force.

 

[Anubis]

I think what it comes down to for me really is the presentation, especially the name. If there's a speed force, it automatically makes me wonder if there's a "strength force" or a "flight force," and that just starts to get kind of silly. But the idea behind it and the results of it work just fine from a storytelling standpoint. I guess if it weren't originally described in terms that make it seem seperate from everything else and for some reason focused on just this small group then I wouldn't have had a problem. Tie it into the rest of the DCU's cosmic landscape, I think it'd work better. And open up avenues for more stories.

I was under the impression that the Speed Force covered all forms of Momentum. Not just something for Speedsters. They were just the chosen ones to be able to manipulate speed, but pretty much everything that moves does so due to the Speed Force.

 

[The Question]

I was under the impression that the Speed Force covered all forms of Momentum. Not just something for Speedsters. They were just the chosen ones to be able to manipulate speed, but pretty much everything that moves does so due to the Speed Force.

So the Speed Force is basically a pseudo-religious interpretation of kinetics?

When you put it like that I can get behind it, actually.

 

[sandwraith]

Right.

Leave it to me: Raven. She has issues. She is also devoid of any real personality. But visually speaking I think she's cool. She's a core member of the Titans and is easily the centerpiece of some of their more impressive storylines. I'm a little confused about how fast the Teen Titans or grown-up Titans hook up because they do it so damn fast but I think she has terrible taste in men.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, the speedsters are the only ones who can consciously tap and manipulate the Speed Force, but the Speed Force covers all kinetic energy in the universe. I think at one point it was basically described as the kinetic energy portion of the Source, back when that was a big thing at DC.

 

[Anubis]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's what it is. That's what I always thought it was at least.

 

[Anubis]

Right.

Leave it to me: Raven. She has issues. She is also devoid of any real personality. But visually speaking I think she's cool. She's a core member of the Titans and is easily the centerpiece of some of their more impressive storylines. I'm a little confused about how fast the Teen Titans or grown-up Titans hook up because they do it so damn fast but I think she has terrible taste in men.

She needs to show up at some point in one of the DCU Dark titles.

While I don't really care one way or the other about her, I think she has potential, and really becoming a big part of the mystical side of the DCU would be a good path to take. Also, maybe she'll get drunk and contract the Satanic Clap from Constantine.

 

[Spike_x1]

I'd read it.

 

[Mystirious]

I was under the impression that the Speed Force covered all forms of Momentum. Not just something for Speedsters. They were just the chosen ones to be able to manipulate speed, but pretty much everything that moves does so due to the Speed Force.

So wait does that mean Barry Allen is the only reason anything can move at all

Leave it to me: Raven. She has issues. She is also devoid of any real personality. But visually speaking I think she's cool. She's a core member of the Titans and is easily the centerpiece of some of their more impressive storylines. I'm a little confused about how fast the Teen Titans or grown-up Titans hook up because they do it so damn fast but I think she has terrible taste in men.

I liked her personality in the cartoon all sarcastic and funny in a deadpan sort of way

She was pretty neat in the original Teen Titans comic books but since then its seemed like no one knows what to do with the character

Raven hooking up with Beast Boy in the comics became ridiculous when their entire relationship and break up happened off panel and then Beast Boy became obsessed with her and started being a jerk to the Titans

While I don't really care one way or the other about her, I think she has potential, and really becoming a big part of the mystical side of the DCU would be a good path to take. Also, maybe she'll get drunk and contract the Satanic Clap from Constantine.

This is why you should always make Constantine wear a magic condom

Always

 

[The Question]

So wait does that mean Barry Allen is the only reason anything can move at all

Johns would be all over that.

 

[WompuM]

Tomorrow is biz-cas-fri, and I am taking this thread to the next level, as a hopeful mod should do .

 

[sandwraith]

Tomorrow is biz-cas-fri, and I am taking this thread to the next level, as a hopeful mod should do .

Do LIBRA! DO LIBRA!

 

[Spike_x1]

So wait does that mean Barry Allen is the only reason anything can move at all

Never thought about it that way, but according to The Flash: Rebirth, and looking at how the Speed Force has been established and defined...

It sure seems that way.

*slow clap for Geoff Johns*

 

[Anubis]

F**kin' Johns.

He's moved up to Bendis status with me.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Harsh, man. But potentially justified, at least where the Flash is concerned. Let's hope he doesn't f*** up Aquaman too much.

 

[The Question]

Never thought about it that way, but according to The Flash: Rebirth, and looking at how the Speed Force has been established and defined...

It sure seems that way.

*slow clap for Geoff Johns*

Like I said, Barry Allen died four our sins.