State Your opinion on a Marvel character

[THANOSRULES]

I love ultimate cap!

Deathstrike is only OK..no matter who draws her it looks like 1990 Marc Silvestri art.

Thunderstrike is cool, so is Tyr, Angar is meh he's there.. dont know who that "master" is...is that the alpha flight villian? Wheres he from?

 

[WalkingDeadMike]

WHAT?!?

Get out of here with that....

The 'A' stand for "F*** Ultimate Captain America"...

Come on, that page was badass.

His whole war-torn mentality not only completed the task of making the character more real, but it made him a more interesting character as well.

Ultimate Cap better than regular Cap? Seriously? I'm gonna spit in your mouth while you sleep tonight.

[YT]f28klp1qQGI[/YT]

 

[Anubis]

Patrice O'neal would rise from his grave and back hand you to oblivion if he knew what you used his likeness for.

 

[WalkingDeadMike]

Lol

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Haha, "more real." Yes, only giant, raging *****ebags exist in the real-life military.

 

[runawayboulder]

Ultimate Cap was cool but in no way in hell is superior to the original.

 

[WalkingDeadMike]

Haha, "more real." Yes, only giant, raging *****ebags exist in the real-life military.

I never said that. I would, however, wager that there were a lot more WWII veterans that were brash, outspoken racists than characters with the moral and ethical integrity of 616 Cap.

 

[BLACKVULCAN]

Haha, "more real." Yes, only giant, raging *****ebags exist in the real-life military.

Hahaha yeah it's usually" F*&^%$ AMERICA ROCKS!!!(with the death metal sign) followed by lots of drinking followed by slobbering over the local womenfolk followed by how much more money we make than their pesetas.. hmmm no wonder other countries hate us!

* i never did the death metal sign or money just the slobbering!

oh and HELL NAW!! ORIGINAL CAP IS LIKE SEAN &^%$ CONNERY! FAR SUPERIOR BABY!

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I never said that. I would, however, wager that there were a lot more WWII veterans that were brash, outspoken racists than characters with the moral and ethical integrity of 616 Cap.

Honestly, my own knee-jerk reaction to anyone saying anything positive about the Ultimate universe aside, it's an apples-to-oranges comparison. They're symbolic of two totally different things. The original Cap is an idealized monument to the best qualities of the US, while Ultimate Cap is Millar's satire of Bush-era US politics. Both of them embody those metaphors exceptionally well.

 

[WalkingDeadMike]

You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.

 

[Hound55]

...and the 616 one is far superior.[/Dig-dig-dig]

 

[THANOSRULES]

Well if you love US Agent, as I do...you'll probably go for Ultimate Cap

 

[Anubis]

Oh, so you've always had s**ty opinions?

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Big Bertha

Flatman​

 

[Anubis]

The entire Great Lakes team is awesome.

Always loved Big Bertha's odd twist on getting superpowers. In her non-powered form, she's a super model. When she's got her powers, she's this big ole sloppy thing. Awesome twist.

And Flatman's awesome in that he's so damn useless.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Well if you love US Agent, as I do...you'll probably go for Ultimate Cap

I love US Agent. But part of why I love him is because he's very pointedly not Captain America. They tried to shoehorn him into the role of Captain America and it went terribly.

 

[BLACKVULCAN]

they were cool ! i especially like Mr. Immortal who everytime he came back more was nuttier than before. reminded me of some dudes sitting around in the garage drinking and saying why dont we start a band and fight Thanos and his drunk buddies agreeing.. good times!

 

[THANOSRULES]

I love US Agent. But part of why I love him is because he's very pointedly not Captain America. They tried to shoehorn him into the role of Captain America and it went terribly.

I loved the John Walker Run as Cap....I think they Shoehorned him into being "the jerk" more...He's a great character if someone would have let him grow some...

which is why I like Ult Cap...he's not quite the level of ego jerk as Walker, he acts like he should most of the time, he clearly is subject to some bias as a man torn from the 1940s would, he's got faults but generally is a patriot and soldier who does the right thing based on that character...

I dont think he's better than 616 cap for what its worth...i just like him as a character.

 

[runawayboulder]

The original John Walker Saga in Cap was one of the best stories Gruenwald did on the title. I wouldn't compare him to Ult Cap at all.

He meant well at first but became prone to violent outbursts after his parents were gunned down. Plus the Superhuman Affairs Commissioner put a ton of pressure on him at the direction of the Red Skull. He became a ticking time bomb.

Ultimate Cap is just an extremist version of the 616 Cap.

 

[THANOSRULES]

I never picked up that he was that extreme..granted i never read Ultimates 3 aside from issue 1 or ultimatum...he's certainly more soldier like, and a bit bigoted , but i dont see the "extremist".

 

[sideburnking]

The Great Lakes crew rules! They're all so funny, and I especially like Big Bertha!
a) As others have noted, her dual nature between her gorgeous supermodel alter ego and the bloated blob of a woman she turns into makes her quite an interesting character.
b) As I recall from the awesome "GLA: Misassembled" miniseries, she pretty much deliberately sacrifices any chances of getting ahead in her modeling career on a regular basis (She's gotten requests from fashion agencies in Paris and London, yet insists on staying in Wisconsin) because she cares more about her friends in the GLA than about getting a higher paycheck. You have to admire that kind of dedication.
c) I love every time she and Deadpool interact with each other! They should do more stuff together!

 

[The Question]

I never said that. I would, however, wager that there were a lot more WWII veterans that were brash, outspoken racists than characters with the moral and ethical integrity of 616 Cap.

Even if that's true, it doesn't make him more realistic. Quiet, thoughtful, intelligent guys with strong morals existed back then too. Just because there were more jackasses doesn't make it less real.

Besides, Steve didn't start out as a jock or an athlete, he started out as a scrawny artist with asthma. You argue soldiers (at least of that era) are more likely to be brash, outspoken racists. I'd argue that weaklings who idolize Normal Rockwell probably weren't likely to be brash or outspoken racists (maybe passively racist, though). And I don't see why getting his muscles would change that.

616 Cap is no less a man of his era than Ultimate Cap. He's just a very different man of that era. He still has a very 40s set of values and outlook.

 

[THANOSRULES]

I basically disagree with you about 616 cap....he hasnt always represented those kind of values, and he really has been a somewhat inconsistant character for years now, and been sort of hijacked by certain writers to push there own agendas.

I think it's just a matter of idealistic vs realistic..

616 Cap is the guy we "hope" a captain america should/would be... Ultimate cap is just who the guy would "likely be" all things considered.


I think in that way Ultimate cap is very interesting...especially if you can develop him instead of pigeon hole him to be how he was from the start of Ultimate U


616 cap is just a mixed bag Which doesnt mean I like him less than Ultimate, because he is THE captain america..don't need much more recent history than AvX Cap compared to Civil War Cap...

And AvX cap compared to say Operation Galactic Storm. (where he was unwilling to headshot supreme intelligence in order to save the planet)

I just basically lose touch that 616 is any sort of character who i can definitively say would act in a certain way anymore.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Sorry for being a couple of days behind, so here's a treat, a new category for crossover characters

Lex Luthor

Joker and Batman

Backlash​

 

[KingMob]

I remember loving the Spider-Man, Backlash crossover as a kid, but it in no way got me interested in Backlash/Image. And the only thing I remember is random and has no affect on the story, but Ben Reilly wears a Fantastic Four shirt at some point, and my 10 year old self thought that was bad***.