Stop Complaining Please! Is Anybody Else Sick of It?!

[chaseter]

But the movie WAS ALREADY A SUCCESS. It's not in theatres anymore. Why not download it?

Like I said, use a move that didn't succeed due to piracy as an example. Not a huge big-budget mainstream studio success.

They still loose money and I am sure if they caught you they wouldn't hesitate a second to prosecute your @ss. The movie is still out in theatres by the way. We have a 2 dollar cheap cinema here that plays older releases and other examples would be paying to see movies in major hotels before their release on dvd. In fact, at the Monte Carlo last week in Vegas had X3 that you could buy and watch on the tv. So yes, you are still stealing. You are stealing until Fox goes out of business and looses all rights to anything X3 related. I just cannot understand your blatent ignorance and logic. Like I said...what if half a million people thought your way??? That would put a huge dent into profits.

 

[chaseter]

You can't steal something that wasn't there in the first place. You can't claim someone hurt your business if it's a product he didn't intend to buy in the first place. Money that wasn't there isn't going to be there. If people lose jobs because they're working on producing a product I'm not interested in buying in the first place, then there's nothing I can do about it. I'm not going to give them my business simply because I feel sorry for them. Produce something I'd actually want to buy and then I'll change my mind.

Sorry, but are you that dumb??? He obviously wanted to watch the movie because he downloaded it. Well he could have purchased a ticket like everyone else to watch the movie. If he didn't inted to purchase anything, then why did he illegaly download it? If this isn't such a big deal why do you think they have piracy laws for music and movies??? Answer that one.

 

[Cyclops]

They still loose money and I am sure if they caught you they wouldn't hesitate a second to prosecute your @ss. The movie is still out in theatres by the way. We have a 2 dollar cheap cinema here that plays older releases and other examples would be paying to see movies in major hotels before their release on dvd. In fact, at the Monte Carlo last week in Vegas had X3 that you could buy and watch on the tv. So yes, you are still stealing. You are stealing until Fox goes out of business and looses all rights to anything X3 related. I just cannot understand your blatent ignorance and logic. Like I said...what if half a million people thought your way??? That would put a huge dent into profits.

Actually, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here, but I'll keep playing the game.

At the 2 dollar cheap cinemas, profits don't go to the studios, if I'm remembering correctly. They get their movies second-hand from the theatres that don't use them anymore. Hence why they're so cheap. FOX isn't seeing any money from them, I do believe.

And maybe people SHOULD steal these movies more often. Maybe it'll send a message that if you toss together a cheap, shoddy, terrible excuse of an X-Men movie together, we'll treat it like a cheap, shoddy, terrible excuse for a movie and watch it in a cheap, shoddy way. Without their help.

But of course, that'll never happen. Because there is always only a VERY small contingent of "movie pirates" who steal movies. Otherwise, you'd see a much more significant drop in box office takes than you do otherwise.

And did you ever notice that people ONLY pirate the movies that succeed anyway? They only steal the blockbusters. No movie has ever been broken by piracy.

It just makes a small negative impact on the profits of a bunch of fat cat executives like Rothman that they can shrug off like a shot from a squirt gun.

 

[ntcrawler]

Sorry, but are you that dumb???

Stupid is as stupid does

He obviously wanted to watch the movie because he downloaded it. Well he could have purchased a ticket like everyone else to watch the movie. If he didn't inted to purchase anything, then why did he illegaly download it? If this isn't such a big deal why do you think they have piracy laws for music and movies??? Answer that one.

For the same reasons they tried to ban tape recorders, cassette recorders, VCR's, Digital Audio Tape, CD Recorders, DVD recorders, and why they introduced SCPS, Macrovision, and Region Codes. To prevent the public from being able to control what they can watch, and what they can record. And each time the same argument was made that this latest technology would totally bring down and destroy the poor music / movie industry. And yet in each case it only served to be profitable and help boost them. Even now with online music downloads and movie downloads it's turning into a potentially huge market which is only helping to improve profits. Apple and aspiring musicians and companies like cdbaby.com have the right idea. This kind of paranoid legislation only reflects an overcontrolling, smothering mentality that the old dinosaur companies continue to operate under, despite the overwhelming evidence that all these technologies they once fear would leave them homeless and their houses repossessed only helped them put more money into their bank accounts.

You like that answer?

I rest my case. You can't claim theft of something that wasn't there in the first place. If I choose not to buy something, that means your net profit is $0. Not Minus whatever the price of that item was.

 

[danoyse]

You can't steal something that wasn't there in the first place. You can't claim someone hurt your business if it's a product he didn't intend to buy in the first place. Money that wasn't there isn't going to be there. If people lose jobs because they're working on producing a product I'm not interested in buying in the first place, then there's nothing I can do about it. I'm not going to give them my business simply because I feel sorry for them. Produce something I'd actually want to buy and then I'll change my mind.

Whether or not you want to buy something is totally different. That's entirely your decision.

But downloading or buying a bootleg of even a successful movie...is stealing. It's illegal.

It doesn't matter that you didn't like the movie. It doesn't matter if it was the highest grossing movie of all time and can't possibly make another cent.

It's still stealing.

It's a huge problem...especially in the age of downloading, where the quality of bootlegs is getting better. You may think only a few people doing it isn't hurting anything, but it's more than a few people doing it. X-Maniac posted earlier about bootlegs being openly sold in Asia. I see them sold on the streets of NY on a fairly regular basis--and I see plenty of people buying them. Hell, one of my friends does it all the time.

Everyone who downloads a movie instead of paying to see it is stealing that studio's product. Doesn't matter if you don't like the studio or thought the movie was *successful enough* that your one download isn't going to affect anything.

It's still stealing.

It doesn't matter that the movie made tons of money already. The movie tickets that weren't sold, the DVDs that weren't bought due to downloading hurt a studio's profits, and affects how they budget future projects.

And I'm not just talking X-Men sequels...this is all of the studios film projects.

A smaller budget means less production assistants, caterers, construction workers, and other small but important roles in any movie's production. And these are people who don't make a lot of money and need these jobs.

You don't like the movie, and you don't want to buy the DVD to stick it to Fox, that's fine. It's not charity, you buy the DVDs you want to buy.

But downloading it because you think it doesn't matter is hurting all the wrong people.

 

[gambitfire]

What's the point of this thread?

 

[ntcrawler]

^^^ for those who are sick of complaining and want to complain about there being too much complaining?

 

[danoyse]

For the same reasons they tried to ban tape recorders, cassette recorders, VCR's, Digital Audio Tape, CD Recorders, DVD recorders, and why they introduced SCPS, Macrovision, and Region Codes. To prevent the public from being able to control what they can watch, and what they can record. And each time the same argument was made that this latest technology would totally bring down and destroy the poor music / movie industry. And yet in each case it only served to be profitable and help boost them. Even now with online music downloads and movie downloads it's turning into a potentially huge market which is only helping to improve profits. Apple and aspiring musicians and companies like cdbaby.com have the right idea. This kind of paranoid legislation only reflects an overcontrolling, smothering mentality that the old dinosaur companies continue to operate under, despite the overwhelming evidence that all these technologies they once fear would leave them homeless and their houses repossessed only helped them put more money into their bank accounts.

That argument is older than that...when television was invented, it was widely believed that movie theaters would go extinct.

The same was said with the invention of cable TV, and VCRs. Today's it's short DVD-release windows and home theater systems.

I don't think movie theaters are going anywhere, just like with everything else thrown in their path, they're going to have to evolve to make moviegoing an event again.

Legal downloading is going to be commonplace soon enough...it's already started with Disney's deal with iTunes. Amazon.com is going to make the service available soon, even Fox just made a deal with myspace.com. The networks are already using it with their on-demand services and making shows available on their websites. AOL is also supposed to be launching a downloading service soon.

The key word here is...legal. Things are back to normal because the studio is selling the product through their own service and making money off of it. They've evolved with the technology.

It's the illegal downloading that's the problem.

 

[gambitfire]

^^^ for those who are sick of complaining and want to complain about there being too much complaining?

Oh ok a never ending circular thread. i love those

 

[chaseter]

Stupid is as stupid does



For the same reasons they tried to ban tape recorders, cassette recorders, VCR's, Digital Audio Tape, CD Recorders, DVD recorders, and why they introduced SCPS, Macrovision, and Region Codes. To prevent the public from being able to control what they can watch, and what they can record. And each time the same argument was made that this latest technology would totally bring down and destroy the poor music / movie industry. And yet in each case it only served to be profitable and help boost them. Even now with online music downloads and movie downloads it's turning into a potentially huge market which is only helping to improve profits. Apple and aspiring musicians and companies like cdbaby.com have the right idea. This kind of paranoid legislation only reflects an overcontrolling, smothering mentality that the old dinosaur companies continue to operate under, despite the overwhelming evidence that all these technologies they once fear would leave them homeless and their houses repossessed only helped them put more money into their bank accounts.

You like that answer?

I rest my case. You can't claim theft of something that wasn't there in the first place. If I choose not to buy something, that means your net profit is $0. Not Minus whatever the price of that item was.

Why do you think Napster, Apple, and other music download sites cost to download music??? Why do you think it costs 99 cents to download a song for your iPod at Apple. Why do you think people are prosecuted for downloading music off of free sites? Why, because it is hurting the record companies and the movie studios. If everyone like yourself downloaded their songs off of Limewire and never bought a cd...the record companies and the artists would go broke. It is that simple. How has Limewire(the so called new technology that would bring the end of the industry) profited the music and movie industry? It hasn't one bit. So you think the legislation to restrict piracy is helping movie studios??? That is a load of bulls***. What do you keep talking about new technology??? No s*** you can't claim theft of something that was never there. If you choose not to buy something then you don't buy it...end of story. But if you choose not to buy it but find illegal means to get it...ie downloading it off of the internet which was the original argument in the first place, then that is piracy and stealing. You got the product at no price while everyone else is getting the product for the price of admission to a theatre...end of story.

 

[chaseter]

That argument is older than that...when television was invented, it was widely believed that movie theaters would go extinct.

The same was said with the invention of cable TV, and VCRs. Today's it's short DVD-release windows and home theater systems.

I don't think movie theaters are going anywhere, just like with everything else thrown in their path, they're going to have to evolve to make moviegoing an event again.

Legal downloading is going to be commonplace soon enough...it's already started with Disney's deal with iTunes. Amazon.com is going to make the service available soon, even Fox just made a deal with myspace.com. The networks are already using it with their on-demand services and making shows available on their websites. AOL is also supposed to be launching a downloading service soon.

The key word here is...legal. Things are back to normal because the studio is selling the product through their own service and making money off of it. They've evolved with the technology.

It's the illegal downloading that's the problem.

Agreed. What the other guy seems to not get is that he thinks it is ok to watch the movie for free off of the internet. Legal internet downloads are the next generation of entertainment...but you still have to pay to get the product. So the companies will churn a profit from legal patrons, while they will loose profit to piracy.

 

[gambitfire]

Yea stealing is wrong and since this is the industry im going into piracy is like my enemy but in this case (X3) i had to join the forces of evil so as too not feed the larger evil with power.

 

[X-Maniac]

And it also smacks of double standards to be on here hating X3 so much and tearing apart every possible aspect of the movie - only to then admit watching it or obtaining it by illegal means.

If you'd paid money to see it, you might then have the right to claim you were robbed because you didn't like it.

And if you didn't pay to see it because you knew beforehand that you wouldn't like it, then you were biased against the movie before you saw it.

 

[Hulkster]

Let's put it this way, imagine you're in a restaurant and you ordered 1 hamburger & 1 coca cola, and while you're waiting for your hamburger & coke you accidentally saw the waiter putting sh** and urine in your food & drink? Would you pay for that?

I'm just lucky I know what would happen. Imagine those poor people who payed and never got the chance to show they're anger.

 

[chaseter]

Let's put it this way, imagine you're in a restaurant and you ordered 1 hamburger & 1 coca cola, and while you're waiting for your hamburger & coke you accidentally saw the waiter putting sh** and urine in your food & drink? Would you pay for that?

I'm just lucky I know what would happen. Imagine those poor people who payed and never got the chance to show they're anger.

It would be the same if you actually ate it. That would be the equivalent of standing in line at the theatre and hearing people talking s*** about it. Two totally different things. You still have the time to return it or not pay for it. But people illegally downloading it on here is like eating your hamburger and coke and ditching the tab...it is just wrong no matter how you word it. And the people that sit here and bash X3 when they illegally downloaded it to see it is a pile of bulls***. Movies aren't horribly expensive and most of the people that troll these boards everyday already knew what was going to happen due to all the spoilers. The dvd will be a lot better...but you know some jack @sses on here are going to get it off of Limewire and not pay a dime...and then come on here and critique everything.

 

[chaseter]

And it also smacks of double standards to be on here hating X3 so much and tearing apart every possible aspect of the movie - only to then admit watching it or obtaining it by illegal means.

If you'd paid money to see it, you might then have the right to claim you were robbed because you didn't like it.

And if you didn't pay to see it because you knew beforehand that you wouldn't like it, then you were biased against the movie before you saw it.

100% Truth...this should be on one of those horrible Truth commercials...just throw some cigarettes in with a stupid message about smoking is bad with corny acting and voila.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Well, it's not like it's a product worth stealing, anyway... but if the whole argument is that if you steal it, people lose jobs because FOX isn't making money so you shouldn't see it at all is just kinda stupid.

Because if you don't see it at all, THEY'RE STILL LOSING MONEY.

Look, as much as you guys would love to think it does, pirating X3 doesn't hurt anyone because the movie was a huge success. Sure, it was a terrible travesty, but it made enough money so that nobody's going penniless if some broke college kid downloads the movie for free.

If you're going to argue that film piracy hurts people, at least use an example that WASN'T a success already.

The problem with that mentality is that it will spread, and it will cause people to lose their jobs.

Look at the music industry.

Sure... when you downloaded a song off Napster, you really weren't huring Jay-Z, or whoever's song you downloaded...

But when people start thinking like that, they go get Napster, get their CD's downloaded for free, and don't go buy CD's at the store anymore, because they get them online now for free. It spreads... records don't sell, stores don't make money, they close down, and the employees lose their jobs.

Hell, even LEGAL downloading hurts people like me... people don't buy CD's anymore, because they just get it off of iTunes and put it on their iPods and PSP's. My store sells less CD's, my store makes less money, stops making profit, loses money for the company, they close down the store, and Nell2ThaIzzay loses his job.

That same mentality is starting to happen to movies now.

Yea, sure, some 13 year old kid bunny hopping from Mission: Impossible 3 to go see X-Men: The Last Stand without paying for it isn't really gonna hurt anyone at Fox... but when people start downloading the movies online, instead of buying them, or going to see them, soon enough people will stop going to the theatres to see movies. Studios will stop putting so much money into these big blockbusters, people who work on these movies will lose their jobs, and people like me who work in the retail stores selling X-Men: The Last Stand on DVD will lose our jobs because nobody is buying DVD's anymore.

I'm not totally against downloading and such... I just don't like when people use it as a substitute for going to the movie, buying the DVD, or the CD. I have a pretty sizable .mp3 library of music I don't own, and now I have X-Men: The Last Stand on my comp. But I also don't use it as a substitution for buying, or going to the theatres. Unless I own the album, I don't have a single full album on my computer, rather scattered songs. I don't download a movie, to see if I want to buy the DVD or see it in theatres. That's when that stuff is wrong, when people use it as substitions. And it does hurt.

 

[Hulkster]

It would be the same if you actually ate it. That would be the equivalent of standing in line at the theatre and hearing people talking s*** about it. Two totally different things. You still have the time to return it or not pay for it. But people illegally downloading it on here is like eating your hamburger and coke and ditching the tab...it is just wrong no matter how you word it. And the people that sit here and bash X3 when they illegally downloaded it to see it is a pile of bulls***. Movies aren't horribly expensive and most of the people that troll these boards everyday already knew what was going to happen due to all the spoilers. The dvd will be a lot better...but you know some jack @sses on here are going to get it off of Limewire and not pay a dime...and then come on here and critique everything.

I know what you're trying to say, but it won't change my mind. And I have no plan on buying the DVD anyway.

 

[gambitfire]

And it also smacks of double standards to be on here hating X3 so much and tearing apart every possible aspect of the movie - only to then admit watching it or obtaining it by illegal means.

If you'd paid money to see it, you might then have the right to claim you were robbed because you didn't like it.

And if you didn't pay to see it because you knew beforehand that you wouldn't like it, then you were biased against the movie before you saw it.

Well you would have to watch it in order to hate it wouldnt you?

i paid and then it was given to me by a friend who felt like me that he was robbed and he passed it on too others with advance warning.

Besides im still an X-men fan and there where some tidbits i enjoyed but overall yes i thought it was a travesty to the name X-men.

 

[gambitfire]

I know pirating is bad and ive said that countless times but everyone is blowing it out of proportion.

Ppl got a bootled X3 beacause they didn't want to pay FOX for what they thought was a job bad done. Hit a studio where it hurts and they will do things better the second time around. Im not saying pirate the movie im saying just don't go pay to watch it.

Is this wrong? NO, but if you pirate it then it is. So what no one is perfect we all do bad things alot of ppl where upset and im sure a huge Studio like FOX didn't suffer from this.

Edit- Im not trying to justify any pirating anyone did of this movie, i just don't like nor think it's fair that they are being attacked with this YOUR WHATS WRONG WITH THE WORLD Mentality.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

If you hated the movie so much, then why do you need to have it anyways, bootleg or not?

 

[gambitfire]

I don't need to have it. it was given to me.

plus i used it for debating research

 

[danoyse]

I know pirating is bad and ive said that countless times but everyone is blowing it out of proportion.

It's not just bad, it's illegal. That's not blowing anything out of proportion.

Ppl got a bootled X3 beacause they didn't want to pay FOX for what they thought was a job bad done.

No, most people bootlegged X3 because they didn't want to pay for a movie ticket. Contrary to popular belief, most of the general public doesn't follow every behind-the-scenes trauma that goes into making a movie.

Bootlegging isn't just an X3 problem, it's an industry problem.

Hit a studio where it hurts and they will do things better the second time around.

No, hit a studio where it hurts, and they won't make any more movies.

Im not saying pirate the movie im saying just don't go pay to watch it.

But if it's so bad, why do you want it?

People say it's so bad that they wouldn't buy the movie anyway, so there was no money to be lost. But if you still have it, and you took it illegally, there is money lost because it was stolen.

Is this wrong? NO, but if you pirate it then it is. So what no one is perfect we all do bad things alot of ppl where upset and im sure a huge Studio like FOX didn't suffer from this.

It is wrong, and the big studios are suffering from this. No, none of them are going out of business anytime soon...but it's cutting back on their profits enough that they're not willing to spend the money to make the movies you do want. Like an X4.

Edit- Im not trying to justify any pirating anyone did of this movie, i just don't like nor think it's fair that they are being attacked with this YOUR WHATS WRONG WITH THE WORLD Mentality.

And nobody is attacking anyone. But you can't dispute that piracy is illegal. That is a fact. And anyone who thinks they're not hurting anyone because they think their one little download is harmless--is dead wrong.

 

[ntcrawler]

What's considered morale is not the same as what's considered legal. One is an example of a person's character and respect to others. The other is an artificial entity created by lawyers in order to manipulate the public to their advantage.

Consider the example of DIVX. No, not the video compression format but the movie presentation format developed by Zenith and RCA to compete directly against DVD in the mid to late 90's. If you don't remember it that's for the bad backlash that its proponents suffered. A movie format where you buy a disc, and then get to pay a convenient fee each time you want to watch the movie either at your house or your friend's house, conveniently deducted automatically from your bank account by a special player that at random times dials your phone to a big computer to tell the movie studios what you're watching. A movie that's yours physically but that you cannot own or "legally" watch, and which required additional fees to watch at your friends house. A movie format which went up against DVD but offered none of DVD's features. The proponents claimed it was the best of both worlds: renting without late fees and without the inconvenience of renting. Disney jumped all over that one, and there was concern that Disney refused to release any of its movies at that point on DVD but chose DIVX instead.
What happened? Well for one thing people developed black boxes that faked the central computer so that you could actually watch a movie that you had in your hand and paid for with your money! And then there came a huge public and consumer outcry, that when it was finished totally destroyed the concept. The players and movies ended up in landfills (the movies would no longer work anyways once the central computer was disconnected). I suppose then that thousands of people lost their jobs because of these evil consumers who refused to support their products and refused to play along "legally"

But fortunately there are enough people fighning back to prevent a world run by these lawyers and their "legalities". As I said before, if you wanted to fully play by their laws, you wouldn't be allowed to have a tape recorder, VCR, digital audio tape recorder, CD or DVD burners. If fact if they had it their way, you wouldn't be allowed to record broadcast tv or radio, or have access to any type of recording device that could potentially record their music or their movies. And that is wrong. Case closed.

 

[gambitfire]

Ok Danoyse first of all i don't want an X4 just so you know.

And second of all i really don't want to hear a what is wrong and what isn't lecture from you.

Who are you kidding they arn't going to go out of buisness, again not sayin that we should continue doing it.

Seriously stop acting so goody good like you have never done anything bad or slightly illegal. I find it hard to believe you can be so perfect.

I just don't like being given lectures by someone i don't know who have probably done worst stuff.

Im not going to argue with you since i agree with you it's WRONG it shouldn't be done.

But you know what i hated the movie and so did some of the ppl i know so a friend got it and passed it on. And a bunch of other ppl didn't go to the theatre because of it. It was how we justified what we considered a bad movie of something we love.

Once more i know it was wrong but in the long run i didn't kill anyone and i doubted FOX suffered from it. (remembers 60% drop in week 2) hmm or maybe our plan worked *evil laugher*