Superhero Cinematic Civil War - Part 57

[MadVillainy]

I never understood the hate the CW shows get. They are what they are and I enjoy them, for the most part. I can accept them for what they are and I'm usually pretty entertained. I don't know why people constantly bash them and expect better. I can totally understand people not liking the shows, but still.

It's not that hard to grasp...they're not very good to people. And I don't think everyone is expecting them to be godtier TV, but they just aren't that well made. Mid acting, mediocre to poorly written storylines, etc. And then don't get started on the SFX and action Saying "they are what they are" doesn't absolve them from being poor. And being on CW doesn't really excuse them because I think Supernatural and even Vampire Diaries was able to tell a pretty rich story while having less budget.
I don't get why the hate is hard to get when once you look at the shows at a pure technique level they aren't that good.

Like I said, the CW shows are what they are. Anyone expecting more is setting themselves up for disappointment. Obviously I wish Crisis was a huge movie event similar to Infinity War and Endgame and it sucks that it isn't, but that's not the CW's fault.

I do agree however, that if you were expecting a lot or even anything from a Crisis adaptation then I don't know what to tell you

 

[MadVillainy]

Oh, I fully expect it to actually turn out pretty good. I just don't have any interest.

I have a feeling it'll get a lot of "It was so weird, so it's good" praise.

The whole movie seems like the person who says: "I'm not like other guys/girls" and "I'm quirky"

 

[Travesty]

The writing is the biggest fault with the CW shows. It's cool that they can give us fan service, but when it comes to the actual story, the writers are pretty lousy most of the time.

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

Kevin Feige Says Disney+ Shows Will Be "The First Time" TV Series Have Interlinked With MCU

What Kevin?

To be fair his comments does quite clearly specify that he means that the connection will go back and forth, which certainly is the first time.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Kevin Feige Says Disney+ Shows Will Be "The First Time" TV Series Have Interlinked With MCU

What Kevin?

Movies don't reference these shows, Disney+ characters have a better chance in appearing in future films.

 

[Web-Head]

It's not that hard to grasp...they're not very good to people. And I don't think everyone is expecting them to be godtier TV, but they just aren't that well made. Mid acting, mediocre to poorly written storylines, etc. And then don't get started on the SFX and action Saying "they are what they are" doesn't absolve them from being poor. And being on CW doesn't really excuse them because I think Supernatural and even Vampire Diaries was able to tell a pretty rich story while having less budget.
I don't get why the hate is hard to get when once you look at the shows at a pure technique level they aren't that good.


I do agree however, that if you were expecting a lot or even anything from a Crisis adaptation then I don't know what to tell you

I mean, I get why people bash the shows. I just meant more along the lines of it being a constant thing like suddenly people expect them to make some huge jump in quality. Maybe I'm just in the mind of letting people enjoy what they like and not focus on things they aren't interested in. The CW shows, to me, are mostly harmless fun. I wish they were better, but I can accept the shows for what they are.

 

[Detective Conan]

To be fair his comments does quite clearly specify that he means that the connection will go back and forth, which certainly is the first time.

Movies don't reference these shows, Disney+ characters have a better chance in appearing in future films.

Wasn’t Jarvis(the butler who first appeared in the tv show Agent Carter) the first tv character to be in the movies? I guess Feige’s comments more means that movies will have have as much ties to the television series as much as the shows has ties to the movies and they will directly impact each other’s narratives for the first time.

 

[MadVillainy]

I mean, I get why people bash the shows. I just meant more along the lines of it being a constant thing like suddenly people expect them to make some huge jump in quality. Maybe I'm just in the mind of letting people enjoy what they like and not focus on things they aren't interested in. The CW shows, to me, are mostly harmless fun. I wish they were better, but I can accept the shows for what they are.

Who is expecting them to have a huge jump in quality? I have not seen that at all.
And no one is saying people shouldn't like what they like, but that doesn't absolve something of being criticized. If I see something crappy, then I'm going to say it's crappy. I think most of the loudest complainers are people who used to love shows that are bummed about how crappy they turned out in their opinion. Which is understandable, I don't see many people who never liked the show constantly posting about how bad they are

Edit: honestly I don't think I've heard anyone talk about any of the DC CW shows except those who watch them

 

[Web-Head]

Wasn’t Jarvis(the butler who first appeared in the tv show Agent Carter) the first tv character to be in the movies? I guess Feige’s comments more means that movies will have ties to the television series as much as the shows has ties to the movies. Unless he is strictly speaking in terms of narrative threads that will have television shows impact the movies just as much as the movies impact the shows and not just connections such as having the tv characters appear in movies.

Yes, but Feige was a producer on Agent Carter.

Who is expecting them to have a huge jump in quality? I have not seen that at all.
And no one is saying people shouldn't like what they like, but that doesn't absolve something of being criticized. If I see something crappy, then I'm going to say it's crappy. I think most of the loudest complainers are people who used to love shows that are bummed about how crappy they turned out in their opinion. Which is understandable, I don't see many people who never liked the show constantly posting about how bad they are

I see it all the time on Twitter and mostly from people who never liked the shows. I didn't like Suicide Squad at all, but I don't go out of my way to still talk about how bad it was.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Is anyone else getting Kubrick vibes from Birds of Prey?

 

[Erzengel]

Wasn’t Jarvis(the butler who first appeared in the tv show Agent Carter) the first tv character to be in the movies? He appeared in Endgame. I guess Feige’s comments more means that movies will have ties to the television series as much as the shows has ties to the movies and perhaps the shows will impact the movies just as much as the movies impact the shows.

I think we'll see it in 2021 when WandaVision premiers in the Spring with Doctor Strange 2 opening in May.

 

[MadVillainy]

Yes, but Feige was a producer on Agent Carter.

I see it all the time on Twitter and mostly from people who never liked the shows. I didn't like Suicide Squad at all, but I don't go out of my way to still talk about how bad it was.

I mean you always get some people, but it's such a minority of it, I don't see why bring it up or give it shine
Even though I don't watch these shows, if I'm bored I'll follow the hashtags/trends. 98% are people who actually watch the shows. Whether it's negative or positive

 

[Web-Head]

I mean you always get some people, but it's such a minority of it m, I don't see why bring it up or give it shine

I mostly just brought it up because I keep seeing people being disappointed with Crisis so far and expecting more.

 

[Deck Rickard]

I don't even think that's a premium show idea that can be done. Any adaptation of any of the Crisis would have to be DC's IW/EG. They are $500 mill, at the least, adaptations. You just can't faithfully do that with TV even with stuff like The Mandalorian and GoT out there

Yeah, I agree but I'm just thinking about the size and scope of the story. It would be damn near impossible to try and condense that into a movie or even a trilogy. You have to change and trim a lot. Now, that's not necessarily a bad idea (it worked for Infinity War and Endgame) but guess I'm a bit of a Crisis purist so I'd love to see a really faithful version.

 

[BoredGuy]

How is what he said at all s**ty? Or even a little disrespectful?
Here's what he said:


Reading his quote, and unless I'm missing it there doesn't seem to video so I can't hear his tone, he didn't say anything about the quality of the shows. He just said they will be connected for the first time. Which is true. How is that disrespectful of anyone's work at all? I'd really like to know how this is disrespectful at all?

Besides, fans should've been hip to the fact that they aren't connecting. It was obvious
1) Nothing that happened in the shows affected the movies. If they did (like Coulson and them providing the helicarrier in AoU) it seemed more like retroactive than planned

2) Marvel TV executives have been like the crazy boy or girl that constantly claims that they're dating somebody when it's completely one sided. Feige always gave sheepish, diplomatic answers whenever they asked about the connections. Feige's name was on nothing other than Agent Carter I don't think. I don't even think Feige pulled up to any of the premieres or did any press for the shows.

3) It rarely even felt like they were connected. Whether that be storylines, tone, or a mix of a few things.

I don't feel bad for fans who didn't see this coming at all.

Now for the actors. I do feel somewhat bad. I remember Chloe Bennett complaining that she was sold on the promise that they would be interconnected. So I do feel bad that she/they were sold on that. Back when she said that I was a little cold and thought she was whining, but I do feel a bit bad. However...she is on a long running (at least by today’s standards) TV show that has a huge nerd fanbase. She will be able to get paid doing fancons for years. And it was one of her first roles. Actors work for years and don’t get anything that big. Again, I do feel a bit bad but she still is on a, relatively, successful show and is immortalized in nerd culture. I can't really feel that bad for someone in that case. It's not like she got a bad product, it just didn't check all of the boxes

The really s**ty people are the ones who sold Bennett and the cast on that lie when I’m sure they knew it wasn’t set in stone that Feige wasn’t on board.


And before anyone says, Feige should continue any of the shows or reboot in the MCU proper with the same cast. Why should he?

In the case of the ABC shows: why would he continue the work of someone that he allegedly dislikes?

And in the case of the Netflix shows: they are just so obviously off brand there’s no reason why he’d continue them. In addition to all of the rights issues.

The shows, especially Agents of Shield, Agent Carter, and the early Netflix stuff, were clearly and repeatedly referenced as being connected to the MCU. They had references, they had actors coming from the films, it was literally the main marketing push for the early shows. Whether or not they were reflected in the films is pretty damn irrelevant when we were told over and over they were connected. This isn't a one-sided fake high school relationship. It's a company promoting one of their products being connected to another of their products, regardless of Feige's personal feelings about Perl-nutter.

After a while, yes, we all got the feeling that they weren't as connected as promoted, which was a damn shame and made many fans feel like they had been lied to. But even then, we were getting excuses about "how hard it is to line up production schedules" and still teasing that it may happen at some point. So by making this statement that "for the first time" they'll be connected, confirms that Marvel systematically lied to its fans to boost the ratings of an unrelated TV project.

Then, like you say, we come to the actors. Some got implicit promises that they might one day make the jump. But every actor, especially the Netflix characters, did amazing work with their characters, way better than anything DCTV is putting out. So what he said is a subtle dig, yes, and he never said the actors did a bad job; he still threw shade though, and devalued the projects these people worked on for many years. And if they choose to recast any of these characters for the "Real MCU TV" it will be the final slap in the face.

I'm not saying Feige was all "f**k these people those shows sucked", but he still devalues their work, and fans patience. And it shows that Marvel was acting deceptively, primarily the film studio, as they are the ones who let fans believe in the interconnected nature of it while knowing in their heads "yeah we're never gunna touch that stuff"

The signs were on the wall for us to see, but its still kinda crap that he now admits this was always how it was gunna be.

 

[Zarex]

The shows, especially Agents of Shield, Agent Carter, and the early Netflix stuff, were clearly and repeatedly referenced as being connected to the MCU. They had references, they had actors coming from the films, it was literally the main marketing push for the early shows. Whether or not they were reflected in the films is pretty damn irrelevant when we were told over and over they were connected. This isn't a one-sided fake high school relationship. It's a company promoting one of their products being connected to another of their products, regardless of Feige's personal feelings about Perl-nutter.

After a while, yes, we all got the feeling that they weren't as connected as promoted, which was a damn shame and made many fans feel like they had been lied to. But even then, we were getting excuses about "how hard it is to line up production schedules" and still teasing that it may happen at some point. So by making this statement that "for the first time" they'll be connected, confirms that Marvel systematically lied to its fans to boost the ratings of an unrelated TV project.

Then, like you say, we come to the actors. Some got implicit promises that they might one day make the jump. But every actor, especially the Netflix characters, did amazing work with their characters, way better than anything DCTV is putting out. So what he said is a subtle dig, yes, and he never said the actors did a bad job; he still threw shade though, and devalued the projects these people worked on for many years. And if they choose to recast any of these characters for the "Real MCU TV" it will be the final slap in the face.

I'm not saying Feige was all "f**k these people those shows sucked", but he still devalues their work, and fans patience. And it shows that Marvel was acting deceptively, primarily the film studio, as they are the ones who let fans believe in the interconnected nature of it while knowing in their heads "yeah we're never gunna touch that stuff"

The signs were on the wall for us to see, but its still kinda crap that he now admits this was always how it was gunna be.

I think the primary drivers of the "It's All Connected!" malarkey were Loeb and Perlmutter. I remember from waaaay back in 2011 there was a report that Ike was leaning on actors - It was rumored that Colby Smulders was one - to sign "two way" contracts that would include TV appearances along with film roles. And I remember a Joss Whedon interview where he said Marvel Studios (i.e. Feige) was not happy that he was the executive producer of AOS.

So I think Feige was just being a good soldier by following the company line, even teasing the disappointing Age of Ultron "crossover" in an interview. And that ended when he got to break up with Ike before Civil War. But the whole situation was very poorly handled by Marvel Studios, Entertainment and Television.

 

[Web-Head]

A big reason why I lost interest in the Netflix shows aside from Daredevil is because I realized they weren't actually connected

 

[Detective Conan]

Then, like you say, we come to the actors. Some got implicit promises that they might one day make the jump. But every actor, especially the Netflix characters, did amazing work with their characters, way better than anything DCTV is putting out.

If that actor’s name isn’t Finn Jones and the DCTV doesn’t include Watchmen then I agree.

 

[BoredGuy]

If that actor’s name isn’t Finn Jones and the DCTV doesn’t include Watchmen then I agree.

Lol yea, I definitely do not include Watchmen, guess I should say CWDCTV, FoxDCTV, and whatever Titans is

and I still think the writing was the bigger issue than Finn Jones, he was great in his single Luke Cage appearance.

 

[mclay18]

Warners has dated The Flash for July 1, 2022.

 

[Erzengel]

Shang-Chi - February 12, 2021
Doctor Strange Multiverse Of Madness - May 7, 2021
The Batman - June 25, 2021
Spider-Man 3 - July 16, 2021
The Suicide Squad - August 6, 2021
Thor: Love And Thunder - November 5, 2021
Black Adam - December 22, 2021

Edit: Flash is 2022.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Wasn’t Jarvis(the butler who first appeared in the tv show Agent Carter) the first tv character to be in the movies? I guess Feige’s comments more means that movies will have have as much ties to the television series as much as the shows has ties to the movies and they will directly impact each other’s narratives for the first time.

Agent Carter series is set in the past, Edwin Jarvis actor did not look aged in Stark's funeral, so it feels more like a nod to that than him being the actual (unnamed in the movie) character.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

A big reason why I lost interest in the Netflix shows aside from Daredevil is because I realized they weren't actually connected

I'm actually glad they're not connected despite the writing effort referencing some of the movies, Daredevil's show is far too grounded to fit in the same realm as the overly agile and durable nature shown in movies.

 

[BoredGuy]

Shang-Chi - February 12, 2021
Doctor Strange Multiverse Of Madness - May 7, 2021
The Batman - June 25, 2021
Spider-Man 3 - July 6, 2021
The Suicide Squad - August 6, 2021
Thor: Love And Thunder - November 5, 2021
Black Adam - December 22, 2021

Edit: Flash is 2022.

I highly doubt Black Adam makes that date, but hey, we'll see, crazier s*** has happened

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

The shows, especially Agents of Shield, Agent Carter, and the early Netflix stuff, were clearly and repeatedly referenced as being connected to the MCU. They had references, they had actors coming from the films, it was literally the main marketing push for the early shows. Whether or not they were reflected in the films is pretty damn irrelevant when we were told over and over they were connected. This isn't a one-sided fake high school relationship. It's a company promoting one of their products being connected to another of their products, regardless of Feige's personal feelings about Perl-nutter.

After a while, yes, we all got the feeling that they weren't as connected as promoted, which was a damn shame and made many fans feel like they had been lied to. But even then, we were getting excuses about "how hard it is to line up production schedules" and still teasing that it may happen at some point. So by making this statement that "for the first time" they'll be connected, confirms that Marvel systematically lied to its fans to boost the ratings of an unrelated TV project.

Then, like you say, we come to the actors. Some got implicit promises that they might one day make the jump. But every actor, especially the Netflix characters, did amazing work with their characters, way better than anything DCTV is putting out. So what he said is a subtle dig, yes, and he never said the actors did a bad job; he still threw shade though, and devalued the projects these people worked on for many years. And if they choose to recast any of these characters for the "Real MCU TV" it will be the final slap in the face.

I'm not saying Feige was all "f**k these people those shows sucked", but he still devalues their work, and fans patience. And it shows that Marvel was acting deceptively, primarily the film studio, as they are the ones who let fans believe in the interconnected nature of it while knowing in their heads "yeah we're never gunna touch that stuff"

The signs were on the wall for us to see, but its still kinda crap that he now admits this was always how it was gunna be.

Yep, to me it’s been obvious for years the TV shows were never actually connected to the movies, in fact I even took **** on here a few years ago for suggesting they weren’t connected.