Superhero Cinematic Civil War - Part 57

[Detective Conan]

Can we bring back Jon Bernthal as the Punisher just so we can see him act out this Moon Knight/Punisher scene with Isaac from the comics?

 

[MbJ]

I said this on the other forum but this means either Whedon's lawyers contacted Forbes or someone at the publication wised up and realized that without a witness to back it up, they'd essentially just printed libel, which can be legally actionable.

I think Ray and his legal representation made a miscalculation here. In the interview he straight up goaded Whedon and Johns by saying they'd sue him if anything he said was untrue, and now it looks like that's exactly what may happen.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

I think the way Ray went about this whole situation was just one big miscalculation to be honest.

But Joss isn’t squeaky clean at all either.

 

[Sithborg]

I said this on the other forum but this means either Whedon's lawyers contacted Forbes or someone at the publication wised up and realized that without a witness to back it up, they'd essentially just printed libel, which can be legally actionable.

I think Ray and his legal representation made a miscalculation here. In the interview he straight up goaded Whedon and Johns by saying they'd sue him if anything he said was untrue, and now it looks like that's exactly what may happen.

Or he actually said something that is actually going to start to hurt Whedon's career. I have seen enough SLAAP suits to not assume that it is false just because Whedon unleashed his lawyer.

 

[jmc]

This Fisher stuff is only going to end up with someone going to court unless he provides actual evidence of wrongdoing.

 

[MbJ]

Or he actually said something that is actually going to start to hurt Whedon's career. I have seen enough SLAAP suits to not assume that it is false just because Whedon unleashed his lawyer.

Maybe, but given that he's remained silent on the other accusations but spoke on this, it seems to me he's confident he'd be able to deflect that specific claim.

I suppose we'll know from how things play out. But it seems to me that unless there are witnesses willing to go on the record or Whedon was stupid enough to put racist comments down in writing, it'd be quite difficult for Ray and Forbes to claim the interview wasn't a defamation of his character.

 

[jmc]

He is painting more than just Whedon with this brush. Frankly, at a certain point you have to wonder if this is just some gigantic misunderstanding that has spiralled completely out of control.

 

[Sithborg]

Maybe, but given that he's remained silent on the other accusations but spoke on this, it seems to me he's confident he'd be able to deflect that specific claim.

I suppose we'll know from how things play out. But it seems to me that unless there are witnesses willing to go on the record or Whedon was stupid enough to put racist comments down in writing, it'd be quite difficult for Ray and Forbes to claim the interview wasn't a defamation of his character.

That's not how defamation works. There are a lot of possibilities that could have lead Fisher to that position and believing that it is what happened. Forbes could have edited out in an abundance of caution.

I have been exposed to way too much of the abuse of the court system (thanks Vic Mignogna) to automatically give the benefit of the doubt to Whedon just because he sent out some lawyers.

 

[MbJ]

Like I said, maybe that's true. But Forbes and Whedons' reactions have led me to believe there may not be any fire under that smoke for this specific claim.

Has Ray updated yet? He said last night he was gonna make a response to Whedon's rebuttal.

 

[Detective Conan]

 

[MbJ]

The script pages he's shown so far have failed to fill me with confidence in the notion that the original draft being rewritten was a major loss.

 

[Snow Queen]

"One more step you die because snitches get stitches."
"Joker, you know I never had no beef with you."
All these classic lines and more that we have tragically lost.

 

[Sithborg]

I wonder if he still accepts the criticism of how he framed Harley or if it was just performance.

 

[MbJ]

The Fisher/Whedon article situation was handled so badly that Forbes straight up fired the writer from their contributor network, it seems.

 

[Detective Conan]

Off-topic: RIP Sean Connery.

It isn’t relevant to the thread, I know, but Sir Connery was such an iconic actor that he transcends everything. The best Bond ever, and one of the best actors of his generation.

 

[henzINNIT]

Ray Fisher just continues to baffle me. The interview was interesting and he comes across much more reasonably when not tweeting, he addresses the career threatening risks he's taking and is determined that being right about the issue will make him prevail. It's all understandable.

... then in the same conversation, he talks about a story he heard about Whedon, and claims that is what finally got him to speak out. That seems pretty flimsy. Changing a person's skin tone in the edit is a bad look, but it already sounds to me like something easily explained away in the sweeping changes to the film's lighting and colour palette; that we saw occur before our very eyes between trailers. This doesn't seem like it would stick. Honestly Whedon's denial of this seemed more incriminating.

Fisher claims to have had phone conversations with one involved party apologizing, and an exec offering to throw the others under the bus to protect one of them. This was after he went public and started building his case. If he didn't record these, he is damn foolish.

 

[MasterBoss]

edit: nevermind

 

[MasterBoss]

The script pages he's shown so far have failed to fill me with confidence in the notion that the original draft being rewritten was a major loss.

Lol and he posted those pages as a sign of quality.

 

[MarvelFan]

Hi friends, I need a little help here.

I just starting to read a lot of DC Comics now (Thanks to Darkseid War and Doomsday Clock that I becoming more interested in DC )

I already read Batman New 52 titles (Court of Owls, Death in the Family, Year Zero, until Endgame). It is reallyyy good! (My favorite is when Batman beat all Justice League in Endgame, it was so coollll!!). Haha

I am interesting to read Superman next. But there are so many story that I confuse which should I pick. In American comic book specialist shop on my country, they have the New 52 Superman, Superman Unchained, Superman Rebirth, and the new Superman by Brian Michael Bendis.

So, I want to asking friends here, which Superman stories is the best to read? (I am thinking of picking Brian Michael Bendis story since he is my favorite Marvel writer, I love Siege and Secret Invasion!), but just for sure...I am asking for more insight. I am at work from Monday until Friday that I only have time to read mangas or comics on weekend day, so I am sorry too if I am picky here. Hehe.

@Detective Conan @Shinobi Shaw ...sorry if I mentioned you suddenly, I know I rarely got involve in talks here but I always read and always think that you two have deep and insight knowledge of both Marvel and DC outside movies. Maybe you can give me a good recommendation here.

So Many Thanks before

 

[flickchick85]

Hi friends, I need a little help here.

I just starting to read a lot of DC Comics now (Thanks to Darkseid War and Doomsday Clock that I becoming more interested in DC )

I already read Batman New 52 titles (Court of Owls, Death in the Family, Year Zero, until Endgame). It is reallyyy good! (My favorite is when Batman beat all Justice League in Endgame, it was so coollll!!). Haha

I am interesting to read Superman next. But there are so many story that I confuse which should I pick. In American comic book specialist shop on my country, they have the New 52 Superman, Superman Unchained, Superman Rebirth, and the new Superman by Brian Michael Bendis.

So, I want to asking friends here, which Superman stories is the best to read? (I am thinking of picking Brian Michael Bendis story since he is my favorite Marvel writer, I love Siege and Secret Invasion!), but just for sure...I am asking for more insight. I am at work from Monday until Friday that I only have time to read mangas or comics on weekend day, so I am sorry too if I am picky here. Hehe.

@Detective Conan @Shinobi Shaw ...sorry if I mentioned you suddenly, I know I rarely got involve in talks here but I always read and always think that you two have deep and insight knowledge of both Marvel and DC outside movies. Maybe you can give me a good recommendation here.

So Many Thanks before

Bendis is the worst Supes writer in recent memory and the last one I would recommend, tbh. Well, him and Scott Lobdell’s run in the New 52. Either one I’d say avoid, or at least, certainly don’t start with. I always tell people the best starting point with modern Supes is Mark Waid’s Superman: Birthright. That’s the best version of his origin story, imo. Then I say follow that up with Grant Morrison’s New 52 Action Comics run and Scott Snyder’s Superman Unchained. Both of those follow an early-in-his-career Superman. If you want to continue on past Morrison’s run, Greg Pak’s follow-up run was also pretty darn good.

To move on to some less “early in his career,” more established Supes, I’d go back to Kurt Busiek, Geoff John’s’ and Greg Rucka’s stuff from the early 2000’s. Up, Up and Away and Redemption are my faves from Busiek, Last Son from Johns (that collected edition also includes his famous Brainiac story) and the Ruin saga from Rucka (which can be collected in 3 trades - Unconventional Warfare, The Healing Touch and Ruin Revealed). Also worth reading from that era is the 12-part World of New Krypton saga from Rucka and James Robinson. It’s set not too long after that Johns Brainiac story and part of a much larger “New Krypton” arc, but a lot of that big arc is rubbish. World of New Krypton is the highlight. For something more recent, Tom King’s Up in the Sky is a great story featuring an established Supes.

For a standalone issue, Action Comics #775 (“What’s So Funny About Truth, Justice and The American Way?”) from 2001 is iconic, and I also recommend the Adventures of Superman series from 2013 for good standalone anthology tales from different writers. Unfortunately, my favorite Supes tales from the 90’s can be a bit hard to find in collected editions these days, but if you can find “Identity Crisis” by Mark Waid, “The Trial of Superman” and “Exile” from that era, those are fun yarns.

The two late-career Supes stories I consider absolute MUST-READS are Tomasi’s entire run of Superman: Rebirth and of course, the GOAT, Grant Morrison’s All-Star Superman.


That’s all Post-Crisis, of course. I’m partial to Modern Age and Golden Age Supes myself (the Golden Age stuff is conveniently collected in Omnibuses, or as a starter, the Action Comics 80 Year Celebration collection), but no Supes recommendation list would be complete without Alan Moore’s Bronze Age gems, “For the Man Who Has Everything” and “Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?”

Btw, Busiek also wrote one of my favorite Elseworlds, Superman: Secret Identity, which I also highly recommend.

Someone else can do Silver Age recs, as that whole era wasn’t really my cup o’tea (unless seen through the warped nostalgic lens of Grant Morrison that is, lol).

 

[MarvelFan]

Bendis is the worst Supes writer in recent memory and the last one I would recommend, tbh. Well, him and Scott Lobdell’s run in the New 52. Either one I’d say avoid, or at least, certainly don’t start with. I always tell people the best starting point with modern Supes is Mark Waid’s Superman: Birthright. That’s the best version of his origin story, imo. Then I say follow that up with Grant Morrison’s New 52 Action Comics run and Scott Snyder’s Superman Unchained. Both of those follow an early-in-his-career Superman. If you want to continue on past Morrison’s run, Greg Pak’s follow-up run was also pretty darn good.

To move on to some less “early in his career,” more established Supes, I’d go back to Kurt Busiek, Geoff John’s’ and Greg Rucka’s stuff from the early 2000’s. Up, Up and Away and Redemption are my faves from Busiek, Last Son from Johns (that collected edition also includes his famous Brainiac story) and the Ruin saga from Rucka (which can be collected in 3 trades - Unconventional Warfare, The Healing Touch and Ruin Revealed). Also worth reading from that era is the 12-part World of New Krypton saga from Rucka and James Robinson. It’s set not too long after that Johns Brainiac story and part of a much larger “New Krypton” arc, but a lot of that big arc is rubbish. World of New Krypton is the highlight. For something more recent, Tom King’s Up in the Sky is a great story featuring an established Supes.

For a standalone issue, Action Comics #775 (“What’s So Funny About Truth, Justice and The American Way?”) from 2001 is iconic, and I also recommend the Adventures of Superman series from 2013 for good standalone anthology tales from different writers. Unfortunately, my favorite Supes tales from the 90’s can be a bit hard to find in collected editions these days, but if you can find “Identity Crisis” by Mark Waid, “The Trial of Superman” and “Exile” from that era, those are fun yarns.

The two late-career Supes stories I consider absolute MUST-READS are Tomasi’s entire run of Superman: Rebirth and of course, the GOAT, Grant Morrison’s All-Star Superman.


That’s all Post-Crisis, of course. I’m partial to Post-Crisis and Golden Age Supes myself (the Golden Age stuff is conveniently collected in Omnibuses, or as a starter, the Action Comics 80 Year Celebration collection), but no Supes recommendation list would be complete without Alan Moore’s Bronze Age gems, “For the Man Who Has Everything” and “Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?”

Btw, Busiek also wrote one of my favorite Elseworlds, Superman: Secret Identity, which I also highly recommend.

Someone else can do Silver Age recs, as that whole era wasn’t really my cup o’tea (unless seen through the warped nostalgic lens of Grant Morrison that is, lol).

Wow! That is very insightful to read.
Many thanks and appreciated, flickchick85

So, Bendis Superman is not worth it then?
Haha, His book is the one I really consider the most on picking just because I usually love Bendis's event story in Marvel (I also read and love his New Avengers) but I guess there are better stories than his writing then.

Yes, it is unfortunate that perhaps most of the classic Superman story (before the New 52) is hard to get on (especially in my country). Perhaps I should import it from US. (Once again, thanks for the complete recommendation, flickchick85) I know what I will want to get now.

So, first off... Superman Birthright, then The New 52 Superman (by Grant Morrison), Superman Unchained, and also Superman Rebirth are all worth it, yeah? For now, I will start with those.

And All Star Superman I heard it is very good (there are translated edition in my country) but I see the preview pages that the artwork is not really my taste (not saying its bad though). But if you say it is great then perhaps I should check it too.

Really glad I ask first here...I almost buying the Bendis one, haha (Just because he is my favorite Marvel writer).

Once again, many thank you,,flickchick85.
After Superman, I plan on Aquaman and Wonder Woman. One at a time, haha.

 

[MarvelFan]

Oh if you dont mind me ask one more...

I read Darkseid War, Doomsday Clock and also Justice League Rebirth vol.1, bit it seems Superman from Darkseid War (and also in Trinity War) is different person from Superman in JL Rebirth and Doomsday Clock.

Is there any book or event that I missed in between of why there are 2 Superman in DC universe? Honestly it confused me, haha.

Sorry if I ask too much and many thanks before

 

[Detective Conan]

Damn you @flickchick85 , you totally outclassed me with your Superman knowledge.

@MarvelFan: Flickchick already named off most of what I was gonna say, and answered your post better than I ever could.


Here’s stuff that she didn’t list though: Superman: Kryptonite - This isn’t well liked by many, but I think it’s underrated. Written by the late, great, Dwaryne Cooke with art by Tim Sale. This story deals with the early years of Superman and has the character face his vulnerabilities both internally and externally as a hero. As the title suggests, it’s his first encounter with his iconic weakness known as Kryptonite. I think this story does a great job of humanizing Superman.

Superman: Peace On Earth is also very good - written by DCAU scribe Paul Dini with art by Alex Ross this story deals with Superman taking on a much more active involvement in world affairs. Even though Clark has aspirations to help on a grander scale, he’s in for a rude awakening when he finds out the complexities of doing so. This story served as partial inspiration for BvS.

Superman: Man Of Steel - This my favorite rendition of the Superman origin after Birthright. John Bryne does a really interesting reinvention of the big blue Boy Scout.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

There's a challenge @flickchick85 , you totally outclassed me with your Superman knowledge.

Looks much nicer this way.

Superman: Man Of Steel - This my favorite rendition of the Superman origin after Birthright. John Bryne does a really interesting reinvention of the big blue Boy Scout.

Byrne starter mini series is just called Man of Steel. The series titled Superman: the Man of Steel was an ongoing that started with something to do with the Cerebrus organization.

 

[MarvelFan]

Damn you @flickchick85 , you totally outclassed me with your Superman knowledge.

@MarvelFan: Flickchick already named off most of what I was gonna say, and answered your post better than I ever could.


Here’s stuff that she didn’t list though: Superman: Kryptonite - This isn’t well liked by many, but I think it’s underrated. Written by the late, great, Dwaryne Cooke with art by Tim Sale. This story deals with the early years of Superman and has the character face his vulnerabilities both internally and externally as a hero. As the title suggests, it’s his first encounter with his iconic weakness known as Kryptonite. I think this story does a great job of humanizing Superman.

Superman: Peace On Earth is also very good - written by DCAU scribe Paul Dini with art by Alex Ross this story deals with Superman taking on a much more active involvement in world affairs. Even though Clark has aspirations to help on a grander scale, he’s in for a rude awakening when he finds out the complexities of doing so. This story served as partial inspiration for BvS.

Superman: Man Of Steel - This my favorite rendition of the Superman origin after Birthright. John Bryne does a really interesting reinvention of the big blue Boy Scout.

Hi, many thanks to you too, Meitantei
Really appreciated it and I am really happy that you and flickchick85 so kindly put and spend time to recommend this so many titles (that I will surely pick most of it). Hehe

I am really intrigued by Peace On Earth (as I am a big fan of Alex Ross art).

Really appreciated much, Thank You once again
I never knew that DC is so good until recently. DC Comics gave me a fresh experience and feeling that their movies never be able to.

I still plan on read other Batman titles as well after I finish with Superman (then I plan on Wonder Woman & Aquaman and also Green Lantern). It is too early to say, but for now, I kind of addicted and wants getting know more of DC characters.

Thank you once again hehe