Superhero Cinematic Civil War - Part 57

[Lencho01]

Superman doesn't view himself as a godlike being though. He knows what he is capable and yet doesn't think of himself above humans. Superman is more a lead by example type of hero.

Also Superman can't overpower everything. He has villains like Darkseid, Mongul, Brainiac, Doomsday, General Zod, Parasite, Metallo and Silver Banshee that can hurt or kill him. It would be foolish for him to think he is guaranteed he could survive a fight with anyone he comes across.

Villains like Lex Luthor (minus battle suit), Morgan Edge, Manchester Black and Bruno Mannheim can mentally or emotionally hurt him by hurting those Superman cares about.

Right. Basically...

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Right. Basically...

Imagine if Superman didn't use his telescope vision to see the moon before digging, and he burnt a few astronauts/cosmonauts.

 

[Boy Scout]

Imagine, he’s knocking out Metallo or somebody then comes back home and brushes his waves.

What a time to be alive lol.

Superman’s gonna taunt Lex by smacking him around in a wave cap.

 

[Detective Conan]

But again, I am also not married to them using that version if JJ and co want to make a statement and have Clark be black. That is also fine.

This would be my preference since I think Clark has the more interesting mythos and I think that character could use some reinvention.

Either way, please don’t get Micheal B. Jordan to play the role.

 

[Boy Scout]

This would be my preference since I think Clark has the more interesting mythos and I think that character could use some reinvention.

Either way, please don’t get Micheal B. Jordan to play the role.

I could see him playing Calvin, but not Clark. He's a great actor, but I don't think his strengths suit a character like Clark.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

This killed me. I'm done but all the **** I'm gonna watch!!!

 

[Iceman]

This killed me. I'm done but all the **** I'm gonna watch!!!

Haha, if you say just one film you can kind of get away with it but he’s going to be watching more than some people who have nothing against DC.

 

[MadVillainy]

This would be my preference since I think Clark has the more interesting mythos and I think that character could use some reinvention.

Either way, please don’t get Micheal B. Jordan to play the role.

There was a rumor a while ago that he was being considered right?

I'm sure he'll be their first choice. He's the go to black guy like Will Smith was in the 90s

 

[MadVillainy]

I just really don't care about Superman being black. It's kinda like making Bond Black to me. Cool he's black, now/so what

I don't know much about Calvin Ellis but Clark Kent is a huge figure. This whole thing just seems silly to me
Clark Kent is Superman. You can have other legacy characters like Donna Troy, Dick Grayson, etc. But most of the time it just feels silly to push a legacy character for the forefront to me.

Obviously I always want more diversity (racially, gender, etc.) but I've never been a fan of things like this.

• If they're making Clark black...my main thing is why not build up the actual big and premier black DC characters instead of changing races. Static, John Stewart GL, Steel, Vixen, Bronze Tiger, Black Lightning, Cyborg (well we know what's up with that), Bumblebee are all heroes/villains that can lead a film or be the head of an ensemble movie. So why not build them up instead of making Clark black? Sure you can do both, but I don't have faith that WB can.
• If they're going with Calvin Ellis...he is such a lesser character. It's not like Jaime Reyes, Miles Morales or John Stewart who, even in the comics, grew pretty big followings before getting their push. Or if you want a Calvin Ellis story why not do the Miles Morales thing and intro him in an animated movie or series and build goodwill there. That helped Miles Morales. Or intro him as a character in a proper Clark Kent movie to take over the role.
• This really just feels like virtue signaling. Didn't we hear about Rick Fukuyama leaving Flash because he couldn't tell his race based stories? This just screams "Diversity is in now. So let's do this" But to be fair they did consider Will Smith back in the day.
• It also feels like "We don't know what to do with Superman. Let's change his race and that'll get people on board"
• If they do make Superman black I hope they don't make the story all about race. By that I mean you look at something like TENET. Obviously had a black protagonist, but the movie wasn't all about race. You had Wonder Woman where it wasn't completely about her gender (by that I mean the story wasn't all about "You're a woman. You can't do this" or sexism type stuff. Which was very surprising to me). You can tell a story with a minority lead without being all about the character being a minority like countless Will Smith movies, Girl Trip, The Best Man, The Wood, Love & Basketball, Us, Think Like a Man, TENET, etc.
• It also just feels like overthinking Superman, especially if the movie is about race. And that's been the downfall of Superman on film for a minute. Superman does not need to be that deep of a character to tell a good story. I wouldn't mind telling a deeper Superman story but they've had issues just telling a basic story.
• And honestly I am sooooooo not looking forward to the "You're a SJW" "You're a racist" convos to come out of this. People think they're Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, and Captain America rolled into one because they're fine with race changes and it's just dumb. You're no more racist or "woke" because you're fine with race or sex changes. It's like all the people saying "I can't be racist. I have a black friend" or "I can't be a misogynist. I have a daughter and love my mother" And then of course on the other end of the spectrum there are the trolls who are just terrible. The whole culture wars ruined talking about Ghostbusters, Captain Marvel and the Star Wars prequels. I pray it doesn't happen with Superman.

But we'll see.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I hope Coates ups his game from his Marvel work. His Captain America comic was a bit ****.

 

[MadVillainy]

Didn't know he wrote for Cap. I'll check it out. Seems to have mixed reviews but "preachy" seems to be thrown around a lot which is something I don't want for Superman or most SH characters either

 

[Mandon Knight]

He's never read a DC or Superman comic in his life. Bodes Well.

 

[MadVillainy]

Well that can change before he starts writing. Not everyone who is hired to adapt something know the source material before starting to write

 

[Mandon Knight]

Well that can change before he starts writing. Not everyone who are hired to adapt something know the source material before starting writing

True, but one has to have a passion for the character, and given the quote released this evening, he has zero for the property at large or the character. The character at last, needs to have been on your horizon.

 

[MadVillainy]

True, but one has to have a passion for the character, and given the quote released this evening, he has zero for the property at large or the character. The character at last, needs to have been on your horizon.

I don't think that either. Not necessarily. I'm sure there are plenty examples where a writer doesn't care about the source and they still gain a appreciation through the writing process and churn out a good script or movie.

I'm not saying it can't go wrong either, but for me it's not necessarily a worry point.

My bigger worry points are that he's never written a filmed movie period, his comic works seem to have mixed reception, and he's only written one fiction novel (which to be fair seems to be well received)

 

[Mandon Knight]

Aye, there's a world of difference between comic-book & novel writing to script writing.

 

[Web-Head]

Do you guys want Watts to return to direct Spider-Man movies after F4?



I’ll ask everyone except @Nardz937 since I already know his answer.

@flickchick85

The Man Of Steel shall return.

Stayed off social media until I watched WandaVision, so I missed this news. Awesome. I'm with @MadVillainy though, I think making a race change like that can come across as virtue signaling and almost serve no real point other then "change" for the sake of it.

 

[MadVillainy]

Aye, there's a world of difference between comic-book & novel writing to script writing.

Yeah for sure.
Just look at JK Rowling. Great writer with Harry Potter imo. But then look at her Fantastic Beast scripts... Yeesh

 

[Adhesive Boy]

If they make Superman black I hope they have a storytelling reason for it and isn't just changing the ethnicity for the sake of doing it. That's just making skin color more of a big deal than it should be and I also think that if you want to represent certain groups I think it's less insulting to create new, original characters to represent them instead of saying that they have to piggyback on the popularity of a white male character.

Superman doesn't view himself as a godlike being though. He knows what he is capable and yet doesn't think of himself above humans. Superman is more a lead by example type of hero.

Also Superman can't overpower everything. He has villains like Darkseid, Mongul, Brainiac, Doomsday, General Zod, Parasite, Metallo and Silver Banshee that can hurt or kill him. It would be foolish for him to think he is guaranteed he could survive a fight with anyone he comes across.

Villains like Lex Luthor (minus battle suit), Morgan Edge, Manchester Black and Bruno Mannheim can mentally or emotionally hurt him by hurting those Superman cares about.

If he doesn't view himself as a godlike being that doesn't mean much since he still is one. My post was already centered about the issue of leading by example when you're so far above what others can do. It's far more inspiring to see someone like Cap fight against evil since he embodies what a human can do at his best. It's not just someone saying that we should be good, it's someone showing what we can do. We could never do what Superman does so there's one step removed when it comes to inspiration. The point isn't that he can't be inspiring, it's that he's trickier to write in that way than Cap.

Of course he has villains that can fight him, otherwise there wouldn't be any stories, but I thought it would be clear that I was using rhetorical hyperbole in the context of the comparison. The point is that it's so much easier for Superman to do "the right thing" than it is for Cap. Cap just being an exceptional human makes him more relatable in his struggles, which becomes more inspiring and it's why it's a perfect fit why he's the leader of the Avengers instead of someone like Thor. Thor is also a very good-hearted and noble being but he has the same issue as Superman.

That's not to say that it's easy to write Cap but I think these things make it easier to get the inspirational and relatable aspect right than it is for Superman.

 

[Mandon Knight]

I'm pretty sure it's not up to Tom on that 'call'.

 

[MadVillainy]

I mean honestly if they're really making Supes black why not get an experienced black script writer? Why Coates? Yeah he's a big name in writing, but you wouldn't get Malcolm Gladwell to write a Wolverine movie

I know JJ will be there but he doesn't have my full trust either after TFA, TRoS, and Star Trek Into Darkness. And just in general him being so derivative

 

[Gothamsknight]

What's more important to me than his race is making sure they got Superman down right and what he stands for. Him being black is fine by me and now I just want WB to actually tell a meaningful story about him again. It's been forever.

 

[MadVillainy]

It doesn't even need to be meaningful for me. Just make it good

Give him a definitive modern personality, adapt his supporting cast properly, don't make it too jokey, give him some good fights, give him good villains. And maybe MAYBE make it a journalism movie the same way TDK was a crime/gangster movie

Superman really isn't as complicated as people make him out to me. But people always try to do extra and they stumble.

 

[Web-Head]

More than anything I just want this Superman movie to have the same care as the Batman reboot seems to have gotten.

 

[Web-Head]

It's a little funny that after the debacle with Ray Fisher on Justice League, WB is looking to go with a black Supes. I think J'onn J'onzz should have a decent sized role in the new Superman movie