SUPERMAN PRIME (holding nothing back) vs GOKU (with full access to the Dragon Balls)

[Lead Cenobite]

Finished gushing?

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Well, technically Superman is just a "derivative" of John Carter - an alien who found strange powers on a far away planet, so I don't see why Kakarot being yet another incarnation matters. All of those things you mention about time travel and resurrection (Goku could resurrect the whole universe with the dragon balls - who cares about a planet and a woman - and they did resurrect all the people in the world and beyond multiple times) are not impressive in the DBZ world, so we'll bump heads, eh? In fact, Goku traveled in time and in other dimensions on the show - big whoop.

I'm asking for the scenarios Prime was in where he used these powers - then we could judge from our experiences of Goku whether he'd survive them and overcome.

Surely they mention something quantitative about his strength, or at least how much stronger he is than the original superman. To put it in perspective based on what characters were doing in DBZ, the original Superman was probably at a power level of 8000, which Goku far exceeded before ever reaching SSJ level.

They do mention how much stronger he is than the original Superman. Infinitely stronger. He is an analogue of the God of Abraham (omnipotent). Infinity is a mathematical concept. You really just need to get the bit where Superman stopped being a character, whose life is determined by writers and became a writer himself to make his own ending.

Everything else that is a number is all infinitely weak in comparison to him (also because he became a 5-Dimensional being). He can write anything and everything out of the story. You may not like it, but there it is.

 

[MehMeh]

They do mention how much stronger he is than the original Superman. Infinitely stronger. He is an analogue of the God of Abraham (omnipotent). Infinity is a mathematical concept. You really just need to get the bit where Superman stopped being a character, whose life is determined by writers and became a writer himself to make his own ending.

Everything else that is a number is all infinitely weak in comparison to him (also because he became a 5-Dimensional being). He can write anything and everything out of the story. You may not like it, but there it is.

You should know that it was Goku who decided that his son Gohan should beat Cell. It was Goku who let Frieza go to full power before giving it his all. It was Goku who Trunks went back in time for merely to present medicine, since Goku's existence meant the difference between peace and the apocalypse. And it was Goku leaving the world/reality at the end of the series in order to remove the sole pinnacle of power enemies grew to attempt to overcome (similar to Batman's plight). It was Goku who rewrote the motives of the 4th Dragon in GT, sending Nuova Shenron against his twin and Omega Shenron. Literally all of Goku's obstacles are framed like impossible situations, and he wouldn't want them any other way. He deigns to face impossible odds, and he decides he will win. How is that not writing one's own story?

 

[Superman Earth1]

They do mention how much stronger he is than the original Superman. Infinitely stronger. He is an analogue of the God of Abraham (omnipotent). Infinity is a mathematical concept. You really just need to get the bit where Superman stopped being a character, whose life is determined by writers and became a writer himself to make his own ending.

Everything else that is a number is all infinitely weak in comparison to him (also because he became a 5-Dimensional being). He can write anything and everything out of the story. You may not like it, but there it is.

I think it's time to let it go. Most people will not understand that Superman prime was like God or pretty much is God. He would've have known about Goku long before Goku knows about him. Hell if he wanted to the whole fight would never happen because God aka Superman Prime could go back in time and destroy the Dragon Balls before Goku could even find one. People don't get that. With just a thought he could change everything.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

You should know that it was Goku who decided that his son Gohan should beat Cell. It was Goku who let Frieza go to full power before giving it his all. It was Goku who Trunks went back in time for merely to present medicine, since Goku's existence meant the difference between peace and the apocalypse. And it was Goku leaving the world/reality at the end of the series in order to remove the sole pinnacle of power enemies grew to attempt to overcome (similar to Batman's plight). It was Goku who rewrote the motives of the 4th Dragon in GT, sending Nuova Shenron against his twin and Omega Shenron. Literally all of Goku's obstacles are framed like impossible situations, and he wouldn't want them any other way. He deigns to face impossible odds, and he decides he will win. How is that not writing one's own story?

You're not understanding the term metafiction. By "writing his own story" I mean Superman stopped being fictional. He became real in our world. He decided how the characters with DC Comics would proceed, because he was the same as us.

That's the idea. Superman Prime vs anyone is the same as me or you against any fictional character. They only exist on a piece of paper, or a disc, which can be destroyed. In the context of Superman Prime, every other fictional character is just that, a fictional character.

The outcome would be whatever he decides, because he is the author. The same as how Darth Vader lost to Obi-Wan Kenobi because that's what George Lucas wrote to happen.


You can either accept that, or just ignore the scenario.

 

[MehMeh]

You're not understanding the term metafiction. By "writing his own story" I mean Superman stopped being fictional. He became real in our world. He decided how the characters with DC Comics would proceed, because he was the same as us.

That's the idea. Superman Prime vs anyone is the same as me or you against any fictional character. They only exist on a piece of paper, or a disc, which can be destroyed. In the context of Superman Prime, every other fictional character is just that, a fictional character.

The outcome would be whatever he decides, because he is the author. The same as how Darth Vader lost to Obi-Wan Kenobi because that's what George Lucas wrote to happen.


You can either accept that, or just ignore the scenario.

Who's gushing?

I can accept that no one can argue with some meta ability some comic writer thought he was being clever with told third hand by a couple of people on a comic forum? Um. thanks. I'm giving example after example of feats Goku performed, and you are handing me philosophical dead ends that in the end just amount to your idea of a monotheistic deity that is absolute in omnipotence. That is really, really boring, and a cop out. Goku didn't need to rely on any BS like that until the last couple episodes in GT when he became no longer a part of the world. He transcended beyond being the most powerful being the universe. Isn't there some other being or beings in Prime's universe above him - or at least on par?

Why don't you quote the Prime saga or use his actual actions as printed at the newstand? Because Goku could just use the dragonballs and go back in time before Superman became Prime and prevent his ascension without any effort at all. Your arguments there are useless because Goku can match it. All humanity was lost against the androids. They beat Goku with a virus. It just took one individual, Trunks, to realize Goku was the only one who stood a chance to go back in time and save his life. And then he beat the unbeatable by registering their strength, and then biding his time until he was stronger. The time chamber could allow him nearly indefinite training on the scale of years with exponential results in the course of days.

Stick to the facts - less fan fiction. The vote I'm seeing now shows Goku ahead so if you want to end the debate, Goku would win. You can accept that, or you can choose to ignore it.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

If you want to know about it, read Grant Morrison's Supergods. Or Superman One Million. It talks about his omnipotence.

All those feats mean nothing, Superman Prime is omnipotent.

 

[MehMeh]

If you want to know about it, read Grant Morrison's Supergods. Or Superman One Million. It talks about his omnipotence.

All those feats mean nothing, Superman Prime is omnipotent.

A truly omnipotent being would ascend the need for a revitalized Lois Lane and Krypton (closer to Dr. Manahattan). Sounds pretty relatable - far from omnipotent.