Batman Begins Superman Returns, or Someboy Explain This To Me

[Cosmic]

OK, somebody help me out here. I must be missing something. I keep seeing Superman Returns compared to Batman Begins, in regards to box-office results. I see this in every thread I click on in the Superman Returns section of the forums. I guess it's supposed to serve as some type of explanation for SR's performance, for better or for worse.

Now, here's what I don't understand: how can you compare Superman, the first and most well-known comic book hero of all time, to Batman, who is this dark, gothic, violent, brooding vigilante? Or in other words, shouldn't it go without saying that in general, any Hollywood summer blockbuster Superman movie...should expect to reach more viewers than any Batman movie?

 

[Agentsands77]

This is in the wrong forum, but yes, you're right. Superman should expect to be much more audience-friendly than Batman, especially since Batman isn't exactly the most kid-friendly franchise.

 

[CConn]

I disagree. While Superman's popularity is, of course, extremely high, Batman's own popularity is very comparable to Superman's.

As for the light and dark thing, kids can handle pretty dark material. Harry Potter's dark. B89 was dark, yet I still loved it to death when I was 3.

While the darkness of Batman may ward off some overly-protective parents, it really doesn't do a thing to drive the kids away. IMO, at least.

Not to mention, there's too many other factors to consider. Marketing, and the style of each film, and when they're released, etc., etc., etc. It really isn't as simple as saying "it's Superman, he's the best, so he should make the most."

 

[Nepenthes]

I've always thought that kids like darker stuff alot more. Especially if it seems 'above their age' they get a kick from watching it.

 

[Cosmic]

Guys, which type of movie is more likely to attract entire families? Superman or Batman? Compare the trailers of SR to BB.

Which superhero is more well-known? More people will go to see the character that they already are familiar with, than one about which they know nothing.

I'm not saying "Superman is the best, so he should make the most." I'm saying that the comparison of box-office returns between SR and BB is false, and can't be used to defend SR's performance.

 

[El Payaso]

Both arter equally likely to attract people.

But sometimes bad movies attract people also. Lots of them.

 

[Two-Face]

Everyone has an opinion, if someone likes SR and can compare it to BB if they want but my opinion is that BB wins on so many levels either person is right or wrong though.

 

[chosen1]

How are each movies sales doing?












"Just a gansta i suppose...." -- Avon Barksdale

 

[CConn]

Guys, which type of movie is more likely to attract entire families? Superman or Batman? Compare the trailers of SR to BB.

Honestly, neither films (nor their trailers) seemed to be mega-super blockbusters to me. They both seemed smaller, more intimate. But B89 was. And STM was. And both of those attracted entire families and made unbelievable amounts of money for when they were released. As I said, how a movie is made and marketed plays a large factor as well. And neither BB nor SR, IMO, seemed extremely family friendly. I think they're very comparable in that department.

Which superhero is more well-known? More people will go to see the character that they already are familiar with, than one about which they know nothing.

Superman may be more well known in the sense that kids in Iran and Hong Kong know of him, but in America, I'd say Batman is equally as well know. If not moreso. Honestly, it's like asking who's more well known; God or Jesus? Allah or Mohammad. Both are extremely well know, and extremely popular.

 

[zer00]

I wouldn't say Jesus is that popular

after that scandal from that Holiday Inn

 

[hippie_hunter]

Guys, which type of movie is more likely to attract entire families? Superman or Batman?

Superman is more likely to attract entire families. Batman is meant to be dark and when it goes into the camp territory (like Batman the Movie and Batman & Robin), the results tend to be not good. Superman can handle darker stories Though to be fair, Superman Returns is a much darker film than its predecessors.

Compare the trailers of SR to BB.

I liked the Superman Returns trailes a bit more than the Batman Begins trailer.

Which superhero is more well-known? More people will go to see the character that they already are familiar with, than one about which they know nothing.

Both Superman and Batman are highly known characters, Superman has the slight edge though.

I'm not saying "Superman is the best, so he should make the most." I'm saying that the comparison of box-office returns between SR and BB is false, and can't be used to defend SR's performance.

Most defenders of Superman Returns compare the box office between it and Batman Begins because many opponents of the film do the same. They go off saying how Superman Returns was a complete bomb and how Batman Begins was a success so the defenders will go off to tell them that Superman Returns had a higher box office intake, even though Batman Begins did make more of a profit.

 

[CConn]

Jesus, you consensually sodomize one hispanic maid, and you're branded for life.

 

[Edd Extraordinaire]

I wouldn't say Jesus is that popular

after that scandal from that Holiday Inn

Oh my god. So many people.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Jesus gave a good reason for what he did at that Holiday Inn. And, honestly....I think he can dodge those charges anyway.

I think at face value, Superman seems to be the more open character for audiences.....and......he is. Namely b/c he's so "family friendly".

That is, you can do a Superman movie...while staying true to the character, and not piss any parents off.

Batman, however, you could do a movie on him.....staying true to the character.....and you'll probably piss off a few parents. I'm not sure, but I'd assume that there were parents that were pissed at Burton for Batman 89.....and there certainly were for BR, which led to him being fired.

I think it's just the methods in which they do what they do that seprates them in family friendly.

But, the contradiction there is......dark heroes are cool, and no matter what....they still gets tons of fans over that "cool" factor. And, b/c of that..kids do dig the badass, which is why Batman still hold weight in that sense.

These two characters are very very well known too. You'd probably get most people on this planet to recognize both symbols to they're respective heroes either way.

With or without some scandal at a hotel.

 

[Chaos Bringer]

i just watched begins again and this is a very good movie. still.

 

[Cosmic]

Honestly, neither films (nor their trailers) seemed to be mega-super blockbusters to me. They both seemed smaller, more intimate. But B89 was. And STM was. And both of those attracted entire families and made unbelievable amounts of money for when they were released. As I said, how a movie is made and marketed plays a large factor as well. And neither BB nor SR, IMO, seemed extremely family friendly. I think they're very comparable in that department.

They were both summer blockbuster/event movies. SR moreso, for several reasons. I agree with the rest, but the past movies were very different situations. I think you have to look at all the factors to compare these films with B89 and STM.

Superman may be more well known in the sense that kids in Iran and Hong Kong know of him, but in America, I'd say Batman is equally as well know. If not moreso. Honestly, it's like asking who's more well known; God or Jesus? Allah or Mohammad. Both are extremely well know, and extremely popular.

More people, in general, know of Superman than Batman. So naturally, there's going to be a larger audience out there for a Superman movie. That's all I'm saying.

Quote:
Compare the trailers of SR to BB.

I liked the Superman Returns trailes a bit more than the Batman Begins trailer.

Sorry, I meant compare them in regards to tone. Flashbacks of Clark's childhood on the homestead in Smallville compared to the intensity and darkness of the BB trailers.

Quote:
I'm not saying "Superman is the best, so he should make the most." I'm saying that the comparison of box-office returns between SR and BB is false, and can't be used to defend SR's performance.

Most defenders of Superman Returns compare the box office between it and Batman Begins because many opponents of the film do the same. They go off saying how Superman Returns was a complete bomb and how Batman Begins was a success so the defenders will go off to tell them that Superman Returns had a higher box office intake, even though Batman Begins did make more of a profit.

That's true, except what I'm saying is that Superman Returns should be expected to make more, anyways. It's not proving anything to say that it made x amount more than BB, because it damn well should have. So, it's a useless argument, but it goes unchallenged.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Honestly, neither films (nor their trailers) seemed to be mega-super blockbusters to me. They both seemed smaller, more intimate. But B89 was. And STM was. And both of those attracted entire families and made unbelievable amounts of money for when they were released. As I said, how a movie is made and marketed plays a large factor as well. And neither BB nor SR, IMO, seemed extremely family friendly. I think they're very comparable in that department.
Superman may be more well known in the sense that kids in Iran and Hong Kong know of him, but in America, I'd say Batman is equally as well known. If not moreso. Honestly, it's like asking who's more well known; God or Jesus? Allah or Mohammad. Both are extremely well know, and extremely popular.

Exactaly. Actually, if we really wanted to go with most popular in America at the moment, it's probably Spider-man.

In terms of universal popularity, I'd say Bats, Superman, and Spider-man are all pretty much equal. Everyone knows these three super heroes, and in America, their popularity is about even, with one usually being the most popular at one point.

 

[Rockbottom]

Id say Superman is the most well known because he is like Hulk Hogan to wrestling, not everyone knows what he looks like or what he does but EVERYONE knows the name Superman. However id say Batman is more popular and liked more than Superman because people can relate to him more, also he has better movies and comic books (this is just my opinion, feel free to challange it).

 

[darknight7]

Kid friendly or not, I have been watching (and LOVING Batman more than Superman) Since I was 2 years old.

Batman 1989 was my favourite movie from the first day I saw it (when I was 2 years old).

So yes, Superman is more kid friendly yadda yadda, but Batman is more markatable.

So what if Superman has heat vision... Batman has his wonderful toys

--dk7

 

[darknight7]

Id say Superman is the most well known because he is like Hulk Hogan to wrestling, not everyone knows what he looks like or what he does but EVERYONE knows the name Superman. However id say Batman is more popular and liked more than Superman because people can relate to him more, also he has better movies and comic books (this is just my opinion, feel free to challange it).

Feel free to challange it?

How about I feel free to agree with it

--dk7

 

[Brainiac 2009]

Superman is only coming back now after decades.

The 90s Batman films built up some motion picture familiarity to audiences for the Dark Knight.

But ultimately neither SR or BB are films intended for kids.

Which is how it should be.


Shazam! will be DC's kiddie film.

 

[Bat Attack]

But ultimately neither SR or BB are films intended for kids.

Which is how it should be.

Catman put it best:

Batman is for EVERYBODY not a specific age group.

 

[CConn]

Y'know, I'll agree neither BB nor SR were intended for kids. They weren't The Incredibles or Monsters Inc. or something like that. But they certainly were inclusive to children as well as adults, IMO.

More people, in general, know of Superman than Batman. So naturally, there's going to be a larger audience out there for a Superman movie. That's all I'm saying.

And all I'm saying is that's not a valid argument; That their popularity is so similar it doesn't make any difference.

Exactaly. Actually, if we really wanted to go with most popular in America at the moment, it's probably Spider-man.

In terms of universal popularity, I'd say Bats, Superman, and Spider-man are all pretty much equal. Everyone knows these three super heroes, and in America, their popularity is about even, with one usually being the most popular at one point.

Perfectly said.

 

[Mr.E.Nygma]

Another thing : Superman is bland compared to Batman in the view of their weakness.
Probably it's just I can't accept it, but Superman can only be killed by krypton. It's SOOOOOOOOOOO repetitive. At least, Batman can be targetted in many possibilities, he risks his life more (I know Supes is an ET and Bats a human) and can be harmed more psychologically than the thruth fighter in red underpants! People will more be called by someone not perfect, they recognize themselves more in a human person than an ET. On the other hand, people are also attracted by saviors. Superman Returns had A BUNCH of Jesus references, my favorite parts+Kevin Spacey. Anyway, popularity of a movie or play usually goes with the recognition (I hope I used the correct word) of people in the characters, the likeabilities. It was always more appealing.

 

[Cosmic]

Batman Begins had so many more obstacles to overcome than Superman Returns, it's just not even a contest. One of the major ones is the fact that when most people think of Batman, they're either going to recall the 60's TV series, or the Burton and Schumacher films. They have a particular idea of what Batman is, and what they like about him, if anything. With Superman, I've only ever heard serious, longtime fans express any kind of opinion on how Superman should be portrayed in his return to theaters.