Survivor: Heroes vs. Villains

[SuperT]

Russel is a great strategist and I feel a good social player also because he understands the psychology of the people he is surrounded by. He may not be attractive or have great oratory skills but what he does have is the gift to manipulate a vulnerable aspect of a person. Now I do think that he sometimes loses focus because he lets his emotions get the better of him but he usually manages to bring them in check fast.

That's not playing a good social game just being able to read and manipulate people. All these players can do that, that's why they've been asked back again, some people three times.

A person that really understands the game and wants to win knows that strategy is not the sole aspect that's going to give you the win in front of the jury. Someone who plays a good social game knows that you have to make personal bonds and connections with everyone in the game, including people that are not in your immediate alliance, or who you're going to be voting out at the next Tribal Council. Whether it's just sitting around talking, hanging out in the water, or doing stupid Dragonslayer chi with each other.

A good scene that illustrates where Russell fails at this is during that episode when the entire Villains tribe was out on the beach doing that Dragonslayer Chi ( ) being led by Coach. While everyone else was out being silly and just laughing it up, Russell was too busy off by himself looking for the idol. It may sound silly, but those are the things that create the personal connections to the other players in the game.

Russell makes no effort to make any sort of connection with people outside of his main alliance, and even within his alliance, his bonds with them are shaky at best. That's what comes back to bite him - no one likes him or has any reason to vote for him to win.

That's why he lost last season. He was too busy off looking for idols or making promises to everyone under the sun, that he didn't even notice he was letting Natalie sit right under his nose and bond with the Galu girls, w/ Jaison, with Brett with everyone which came back and helped her ten-fold at the Final TC, and just screwed Russell over.

Once again, Russell is a great strategist but strategy is pretty worthless when everyone hates you so much that they don't even want to vote for you to win.

 

[FilmNerdJamie]

Spoiler

On a side note, can we now get past this myth that Boston is one of the "great," Survivor players? He's played in three games and was voted out 7th in two of them, never touching jury. He got lucky one game because in Survivor All-Stars all of the real power players like Ethan, Lex, Colby, Rich, and Rob C. were voted out early due to fear and it allowed a mediocre playyer like Rob to run a game of even worse strategic players like Amber, Big Tom, Jenna, Alicia, Shii Ann, and Rupert who were brought in for personality instead of all-star status to run the game. Rob is not a great player. Instead he was just the least mediocre in one of his games.

Spoiler

If you get to the Final 2 and can't convince the jury to vote for you to win (or more importantly, against your opponent), then you're frankly not a good player. Case in point: Boston Rob and Russell.

Also, mentioning Shii Ann in my post about Rob being overrated made me realize something. No one from Thailand is in this game. How is Brian not back? Strategically he was on level with Rob C. and Rich Hatch. He would be a worthy opponent for Russell.

The producers hated Brian. They didn't find out about his "soft-core porn" past until after it leaked in the press. Apparently while the game was going on, everyone behind the scenes knew how much he was mind-****ing his cast and that he was going to win. And there was nothing they could do (in terms of throwing "twists" in the mix to shake things up) to change it.

 

[RAMORE]

Freaking crazy episode it was so good! On one hand (and I cant believe i'm saying this) Coach was right they will self implode now but the two top dogs had to draw a line in the sand make them choose. I bet coach had to cry himself to sleep after Rob dogged him.

I have to agree Russell's social game is not great. However he got screwed last season he should have one maybe if he makes here the all stars will vote on dominance look at season 1 Hatch was horrible and they all voted on him.

 

[SuperT]

Ugh I ****in hate Courtney.

How can anyone hate Courtney?!? She's a freakin' w00t! Love her!

LOL'ed so hard when she said Coach was just like a girl and that Russell was a smelly cave troll.

 

[Matt]

Spoiler

If you get to the Final 2 and can't convince the jury to vote for you to win (or more importantly, against your opponent), then you're frankly not a good player. Case in point: Boston Rob and Russell.

I only agree with that partially. Sometimes it is simply impossible to make the final two without pissing people off.

The producers hated Brian. They didn't find out about his "soft-core porn" past until after it leaked in the press. Apparently while the game was going on, everyone behind the scenes knew how much he was mind-****ing his cast and that he was going to win. And there was nothing they could do (in terms of throwing "twists" in the mix to shake things up) to change it.

That's a pity. Brian was one of the most brilliant players to ever touch the game of Survivor. This game is lacking in true all-stars. The only real strategic mastermind in this cast is Russell. We need a player like Brian, or Rob C., or Rich Hatch. Even Lex or Stephen. To snub those guys while including Courtney, or Cirie, is ashame. The fact that everyone was so convinced that Boston Rob was the best player in the game shows how pitiful this cast truly is for an "all star game."

 

[Matt]

Freaking crazy episode it was so good! On one hand (and I cant believe i'm saying this) Coach was right they will self implode now but the two top dogs had to draw a line in the sand make them choose. I bet coach had to cry himself to sleep after Rob dogged him.

I have to agree Russell's social game is not great. However he got screwed last season he should have one maybe if he makes here the all stars will vote on dominance look at season 1 Hatch was horrible and they all voted on him.

I think Russell has learned from his mistake and that is why he is building an alliance with Jerri and Coach. Remember Brian from Thailand? He was a brilliant strategic player, terrible social player. But instead of trying to kiss ass which would ruin his strategic game, he simply planned things out so he could go final two with Clay. The one player in the game who was so unlikable that Brian could win the million against him, despite manipulating and backstabbing every juror. I think that is what Russell is planning with Coach or Jerri. These players are known for having terrible social games, coming off as ass holes, and alienating everyone around them. If Russell is against Coach or Jerri, he has a good shot at that million.

 

[SuperT]

Matt, why do you keep talking down Cirie like she's not one of the best female players this game's had in a good long time??

She's equal or maybe even better footing, game and strategywise as Rob C. They're both very similar players.

 

[Matt]

Because, as I've said time and time again SuperT, we just see her game differently. You see a brilliant strategic player. I see someone who clings onto stronger players (in Panama, Aras and in Fan vs. Favorites, Amanda and Parvati) and takes credit for their accomplishments to the camera. I see a coat tail rider who talks herself up. And unlike Rob C., any "great strategic move," that Cirie has made is the result of bad decisions by other players, not good decisions on her part.

Furthermore, she has no end game. Once she reaches the point in the game where alliances no longer matter and she has to depend on herself, she crumbles because she can no longer ride coat tails.

You see a great player, I don't. There are too many holes in her game to be a great player. So I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[SuperT]

I'm just messin' with you!!

I know we've agreed to disagree!

 

[Iron_Stark]

The villains are dumb for voting for Rob and Russell, they should've for that *itch Sandra and that praying mantis looking Courtney. Both are worthless.

 

[NY1981]

How can anyone hate Courtney?!? She's a freakin' w00t! Love her!

LOL'ed so hard when she said Coach was just like a girl and that Russell was a smelly cave troll.

I like her "don't care" personality even though she will never succeed with it, it does make her fun to watch. One thing I can't stand about her though is her appearance, not beauty wise but her physique, it's sickening to see her shoulder blades and ribs poking through her skin. I find it quite disgusting.

 

[Marx]

I don't think Cirie is that great of a player.

 

[Wyrminarrd]

Russell out played Rob, no question about it. However, I feel that Russell may have made a mistake in not appeasing Coach and voting out Courtney first. If Coach were to flip again and manage to take Jerri with him then there would be a 4/3 split with Russell in the minority again.

It was great to see the Heroes finally get their act together, voting out James last episode was definitely the right move (both for the tribe and for James based on his post show interviews). I hope the Heroes manage to keep the momentum going and that we have a merge with equal numbers.

 

[Iron_Stark]

What sucks is Russell never got to hide Rob's Red Sox cap like he said he was.

 

[SuperT]

Next week on Survivor....

A NEW POWER PLAYER EMERGES AS A PLAN IS PUT INTO MOTION THAT COULD CHANGE THE DIRECTION OF THE ENTIRE GAME, ON "SURVIVOR: HEROES VS. VILLAINS," THURSDAY, APRIL 8
"Expectations" - Struggling to keep their tribe intact, the "Heroes" vow to work together as long as it takes to ensure that they outlast the "Villains." Meanwhile, the "Villains" begin to turn on one another after one tribe member makes a costly mistake at the Reward Challenge, on SURVIVOR: HEROES VS. VILLAINS, Thursday, April 8 (8:00-9:00 PM ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network

From the promo's they've been playing CBS throughout the weekend, the new power player looks to be Sandra taking on Russell herself. GO GIRL!

 

[Havok83]

Im upset. I wanted Rob to stay.

Was Coach bad on his season bc he is anything but a villian here. Ditto for that blonde girl on the team

 

[SuperT]

I wouldn't say Coach was a villain on his season at all. He wasn't outwardly mean to anyone nor did he play the game nefariously or anything, he was just a delusional loon.

If you actually read post show interviews from his castmembers after Tocantins, everyone said that they loved Coach.

 

[Ipodman]

Sad to see Boston Rob go off.... I was assuming they would vote off the "less interesting" people first... like Courntey (as much as i like her), and Danielle

 

[Matt]

I wouldn't say Coach was a villain on his season at all. He wasn't outwardly mean to anyone nor did he play the game nefariously or anything, he was just a delusional loon.

If you actually read post show interviews from his castmembers after Tocantins, everyone said that they loved Coach.

Coach was more of a hypocrit than a villain in his season. The entire time, he would rant to the camera about how he was a pillar of honesty, just trying to ensure the strong stay in the game because he "respected the game." Then he would tell an elaborate lie to get the strongest player voted off because he felt that they were a threat to him, then he'd run right back to the camera and say he never lies.

Coach rants about his honesty, but come on, taken hostage by a tribe of cannibals in the Amazon, cleary the man is a pathalogical liar.

 

[Matt]

Next week on Survivor....



From the promo's they've been playing CBS throughout the weekend, the new power player looks to be Sandra taking on Russell herself. GO GIRL!

Boot list spoilers:

Spoiler

looks like Sandra is going to win this season. Most boot list sites are saying that she, Parvati, and Russell are final three with Sandra coming out on top (although they do concede that the winner is likely just speculation).

 

[Marx]

Next week on Survivor....



From the promo's they've been playing CBS throughout the weekend, the new power player looks to be Sandra taking on Russell herself. GO GIRL!

Go Sandra!

 

[SuperT]

This sucks, but here's further proof that Parvati was given pre-show information about Russell. Here's one of her confessionals from the Insider clips at CBS.com:

"Russell is always, always, always thinking, as well as always strategizing, always ping-ponging around the island, trying to see who's talking to this person and what can I say to this person to make them want to be with me. Russell's in game mode, and he never, ever steps out of game mode. I think he's been in game mode for the past 39 days plus the past 17 days. His last season plus this season. He hasn't stepped out of Survivor for one second so it's like constant for him."

Note the bolded part. How does Parvati know Russell lasted 39 days during Samoa?? Russell wasn't allowed to talk to the H vs. V cast about his placement or how long he lasted the season before. Hmmmmmm....

 

[Matt]

How do you know he wasn't allowed to talk about it?

Or perhaps they were all told about Russell's Samoa placement to put them somewhat on a level playing field? Or maybe Probst mentioned it during the three hours of tribal council that we only see ten minutes of?

To automatically assume there is some producer lead Russell/Parvati conspiracy is a bit paranoid.

 

[SuperT]

Not paranoid, it came out before the season even started airing that Parvati and Danielle were told about Russell before filming started because they are personal friends with Erika Shay, who does casting for both Survivor and The Amazing Race.

Someone from production already leaked it. Russell was under the same contract as Rupert was in the first All Stars and Amanda and James during Fans vs. Favorite. They were all not allowed to talk to the cast members about their previous placements in their prior seasons.

 

[Marx]

I think there is alot more that goes on that we don't see. The production team has always edited in ways that are favorable to some, and unfavorable to others.