TDK vs CA: TWS

[GremlinZilla89]

Winter Soldier, without question. It's probably my third favorite superhero film ever. TDK isn't even in my top 10.

TDK in general reveals more problems for me as it ages. Bale is bland and lost in the narrative shuffle, Harvey's arc is completely rushed in the third act. Hell, the entire third act is rushed. It's like Nolan and co. took so long setting up all these pieces they realized they were running out of time and just put everything into overdrive. The film never fails to lose me after the hospital explosions. The big emotional beat of the film is utterly hollow as I didn't give a damn about the character and overall the film just loses me in the third act. I would love it as much as the rest the world does if the third act didn't let me down so much but hey, what can I do? The last 30 minutes of TDK make it the weakest of the three films by far.

TWS is a better film in almost every regard except maybe cinematography and score. It's political bent is also...get ready for it.....better written than TDK's.

 

[Space Ghost]

Ahaha. Cheesy....that´s funny coming from a Marvel fan.

 

[OcStat]

That's pretty neat.

Anyway, this thread is problematic because TWS isn't in the same ballpark as TDK. It would make for a more interesting comparison if we had a genuinely comparable film, like Iron Man, X-Men First Class, or The Dark Knight Rises.

Here's another zinger, folks!

The Winter Soldier is easily in the same ball park, more so than the other three films you mentioned. Comparing TDK to TDKR would be a boring conversation, and almost always deloves into the extreme "Nolanites" giving the other fans crap for not liking TDKR as much, when TDK is easily the better movie. Considering the issues you've noted with TWS, I'm surprised you think First Class is a superior film, let alone comparable to The Dark Knight.

 

[Shikamaru]

I'd rank TWS over Iron Man, First Class, and TDKR.

 

[Space Ghost]

I also would rank TWS over Iron Man. But i´d rank TDKR over TWS. Not so sure about First Class, because i haven´t watched the movie in years, but from what i remember it was pretty cool.

The only Batman movie that i find comparable to TWS is Batman Begins. And in even in that battle i would give the edge to Batman Begins for being a movie with way more "soul".

 

[The_Manhunter]

The fact that TWS was about Captain America, and TDK, Batman was a secondary character.

I would argue that Cap was a secondary character as well in TWS. What was going on with SHIELD was clearly the main plotline. And Cap didn't even beat the overall villain in the film - Nick Fury did with some help from Black Widow.

Personally I think people are forgetting how great some of these other movies (not just the ones I mention) are just because Cap 2 is new. I'm not trying to insult anyone or saying Cap 2 wasn't really good - it is in my top 10 CBM's after all. However, personally I would definitely rank TDK, MOS, Avengers, and TDKR in front of Cap 2, and I enjoyed Thor 2 more as well.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

I would argue that Cap was a secondary character as well in TWS. What was going on with SHIELD was clearly the main plotline. And Cap didn't even beat the overall villain in the film - Nick Fury did with some help from Black Widow.

Personally I think people are forgetting how great some of these other movies (not just the ones I mention) are just because Cap 2 is new. I'm not trying to insult anyone or saying Cap 2 wasn't really good - it is in my top 10 CBM's after all. However, personally I would definitely rank TDK, MOS, Avengers, and TDKR in front of Cap 2, and I enjoyed Thor 2 more as well.

Batman wasn't a secondary character in TDK and Cap wasn't a secondary character in TWS. In Cap's case, beating the overall villain wasn't the issue, defeating the threat was.

 

[Human Torch]

Scarlett Johansson sounds the same in most of her movies. Why does in TWS she talks like if she was a worker of a sex line? Is that how Black Widow is supposed to be? A little ****ish without much life in her?

Just........

 

[samsnee]

Ahaha. Cheesy....that´s funny coming from a Marvel fan.

I'm not a fanboy of one or the other. I want both companies to make good movies. And yes, the moment was cheesy. From the overly dramatic score to the heavy-handed symbolism, it made me roll my eyes when I first saw it.

 

[Marvin]

Batman wasn't a secondary character in TDK and Cap wasn't a secondary character in TWS. In Cap's case, beating the overall villain wasn't the issue, defeating the threat was.

It is an interesting situation that batman is the one to confront and defeat all enemies(in his own film) in spite of his supporting cast whereas it's a different scenario in TWS, namely that of cap confronting the 'heavy'.

I personally don't care for the talk of lead in their own films but that definitely would a talking point I think.

 

[Space Ghost]

I'm not a fanboy of one or the other. I want both companies to make good movies. And yes, the moment was cheesy. From the overly dramatic score to the heavy-handed symbolism, it made me roll my eyes when I first saw it.

Yeah, i understand. TWS´s ending also made me roll my eyes. It was funny to see how hard they were trying to do something similar to the TDK and how bad they were failing. It also made me roll my eyes by the fact that they tried to make me care about weak and underdeveloped characters.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

They weren't.

 

[OcStat]

Yeah how were they trying to make a movie similar to TDK?

In that it's a movie with comic book super heroes, villains, action, a score? A beginning, middle and end?

 

[samsnee]

Anytime a movie is good, it's copying TDK. BeforeTDK, there weren't good movies.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

Except Citizen Kane of course.

 

[samsnee]

Also

TDK: Batman jumps off building
TWS: Cap jumps out of a jet

TDK: Villain has long dirty hair and makeup
TWS: Villain has long dirty hair and eyeliner

TDK: Batman's girlfriend dies
TWS: Cap's girlfriend probably dies soon

TDK: Has an Asian guy
TWS: Hired the same Asian guy

TDK: Batman has a black friend
TWS: Cap has two black friends

 

[jmc]

Scarlett Johansson sounds the same in most of her movies. Why does in TWS she talks like if she was a worker of a sex line? Is that how Black Widow is supposed to be? A little ****ish without much life in her?

I wouldn't say that. I will say though in the 3 films she's played the character she has been totally unconvincing in the role. I just can't buy her as an action hero in any degree, part of that is down to how the character is written and presented, it almost like Widow is too perfect at what she does.

 

[Space Ghost]

I wouldn't say that. I will say though in the 3 films she's played the character she has been totally unconvincing in the role. I just can't buy her as an action hero in any degree, part of that is down to how the character is written and presented, it almost like Widow is too perfect at what she does.

"and then i saw the winter soldier, and bla, bla, bla, who cares, i´m here because i´m hot, and then bye bye bikinis, bla, bla"

I mean, it´s like everytime she talks her primary goal is to look and sound sexy and provocative. To me it felt like i was simply watching a talking sex object.

Isn´t Black Widow a little more interesting in the comics? Or is she supposed to be just...that?

 

[jmc]

She does come across as very one dimensional. It makes me wonder just how you go about making a film with her that doesn't come off as being just another pointless action-girl flick. They've talked up a BW film for a while but I just can't see her being a character that's all that interesting for a solo film.

 

[OcStat]

Actually in the comics they don't even call her Black Widow, she goes by the alias SuperHoe.

 

[Human Torch]

Cap is just a dull white guy,Widow is just a sexy ****......Anybody else think Space Ghost got a little Nolan bias thang goin' on?

 

[Ms. Marvel]

A little?

 

[Space Ghost]

Yeah, i´m clearly the only biased user here. I should try to be a little more like MS.MARVEL and stop being so biased.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

What have I said that was so biased?

TDK is probably my third favourite CBM. I put TWO marvel movies (TA and TWS) ahead of it and I'm biased? You need to stop having this "vs" mentality.

 

[flickchick85]

While I really enjoyed Scarlett and her chemistry with Chris in TWS, I've never found Black Widow as a character to be compelling enough in the movies or comics to warrant a solo film, either. I mean, it could work as a little Bourne-esque spy movie I guess, but I much prefer Carol Danvers and Jessica Drew when we're talking about potential Marvel solo female franchises. They have lives and relationships outside of their jobs that make them seem like fun people I would enjoy watching.