The 3 H's: What's REALLY Going On Here?

[weatherwitch]

Actually I do it all the time.

J/K

Cute.

In respect for your thread (cuz y'know I love ya) I'm behaving and avoiding doing just that. Although I am quietly mocking some posters.

 

[danoyse]

In respect for your thread (cuz y'know I love ya) I'm behaving and avoiding doing just that. Although I am quietly mocking some posters.

Yeah, your sig is pretty subtle.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

HalleHughHate
What's REALLY Going On Here?

By Lightning Strikez!​

I can keep silent no longer.

I've been quietly perusing this board during the last few weeks, and I've noticed an influx of threads complaining about how certain marquee players in this franchise need to "go away". In particular, two of the reasons this franchise has been successful--namely Hugh Jackman and Halle Berry--seem to be the target of most of these "anti" sentiments.

Now, maybe I saw a different X1 and X2 than some of you, but it seems that Berry (Storm) is only just now becoming a real player in this franchise. Despite the way she was marketed before, she played a supporting character in the prior films. She was billed 5th and 4th in them respectively, and unlike others, never received an origin story, nor a role in any of the romantic plots. Even in X3, she did not carry Scott's torch in his absence...she played second-in-command to Logan. So as critics have agreed, not much changed in her role from X1, to X2 to X3.

Yet, according to some of you, suddenly Halle's become this huge "problem" that threatens to eat up all the other X-Men's body parts!?? How did this happen? It can't be *only* about her salary because she always made more than the other actors--despite her comparatively minor role. And it can't be about screentime because--let's face it--she wasn't really more visible in X3 than X2 sans more action sequences (and much of her stuff was chopped--as usual).

So when putting it all in perspective, what is really accounting for all the hate? To see my point more clearly, let's consider two of the other top actors who--for some reason--are not receiving similiar backlash, shall we?

***​

* Famke Janssen's character certainly has had a substantial role (especially as part of the romantic twists in all three films) and moved up on the casting credits (to Halle's former position)--yet I don't hear people stating that she's eating up everyone else's screentime--even though she's gotten the most character development of the X-Women.

*Magneto's (Ian's) role in each film was consistently huge. In fact, prior to X3, he received top billing over TWO Oscar-winning actresses, and had more screentime than both of them yet again in X3. Yet, no one is complaining about him eating up everyone's screentime. No one is saying "Do we really need Ian?" Hmmmm....

So what is the REAL problem here? Why the disconnect?

Could it be that people are bent out of shape because their personal favorite characters were not treated the way they preferred? Are some of us simply angry and venting accordingly, even though the character dynamics have never really changed in 6 years (with Logan still front and center with everyone else supporting him)?

I sense jealousy...and maybe even hypocrisy in some of these posts....but I could be wrong. Would someone care to explain it to me?

I agree on all of your points about Halle (except that she doesn't seem more prominent in the third)... but what I should point out, kindly, is that this thread was about only 2 H's... you spoke no word on defending Hugh's position.

 

[danoyse]

The fact of the matter is that a majority of moviegoers don't give a rats ass about the fanboy details that has everyone on these boards panties in a bunch.

Seriously. Someone I work with said so many positive things about X3 that I could actually hear heads spinning on these boards.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Yes, that is exactly the case. I can't debate or handle facts. Good job callin' me out. What were your points again? Previous movies? Where actor schedules and studio politics could never altar the course of movie events? Riiiight. Ok.

Actors schedules are nothing more than an excuse to cover the truth.

Fox/Rothman sat on their collective asses after the immediate success of X2 as it was critically acclaimed, financially successful, and was an overall smash hit in general. Instead of them immediately resigning Singer they sat on their thumbs and didn't budge at all.

So after a long specific wait certain actors got tired of waiting and went on to do other projects. Singer, who got tired of waiting, decided to do Superman Returns and that's when Fox all of a sudden wants to get up to rush out an X-Men movie just to beat out SR. Now, if SR had came out a year later, I bet Fox would still be in the same position that they were in when Singer was still on board as the director.

As I said, Fox loves people who defend their decisions and defend a product without questions. I guess that's what makes the villain more interesting than certain heroes. Villains don't follow blindly and ask questions.

I'm merely asking questions, providing facts, and trying to educate those who clearly don't understand the comics or how storytelling is important to the overall concept of these particular themes. If you enjoy the movie that's fine, I've not called you any names just because you enjoyed it.

But when you say you enjoy it, you don't provide any real intelligent reasons except for "Because Logan is popular!", "Jean and Scott are boring!!", "X1/X2 didn't have enough action, I want action!!!!". Those aren't intelligent debates nor are they factual.

Us "detractors" or "haters" provide reasons for our dislike and it's people like you, Danoyse, YJ1, and X-Maniac who get upset whenever we voice our own different opinions of X3. Last I recall it was you and others who got upset for hurting your feelings about X3. I'll voice my displeasure until a change is made or until Marvel gets the rights back from Fox.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Seriously. Someone I work with said so many positive things about X3 that I could actually hear heads spinning on these boards.

If it was such a hit with the mainstream audience then it shouldn't have gotten trounced by a romantic comedy with Vince Vaughn/Jennifer Aniston.

Films like Batman Begins, X1/X2, Blade, V For Vendetta, Lord of the Rings, POTC 2, Spider-Man 1/2, The Matrix Trilogy, and so on were successful with fanboy audience and non-fanboy audience.

Keep trying with your actual BS lies. If it was so popular with the mainstream community, why did it have such a large drop-off rate? Hell for it to get destroyed by a film that X3 should've destroyed is pathetic.

 

[Mike059jig]

Could it be that people are bent out of shape because their personal favorite characters were not treated the way they preferred?

or maybe we have to look around them to see what the other characters are doing?......its already been stated by Kinberg X3 was a Halle and Hugh movie...they have the most the say and what is to be done with this movie since fox uses them to market the movie....would they say anything?..don't know....would they want to use this to help benefit their careers? yes...they are doin they jobs

Jealousy the easy way out huh....yeah and it comes with the package...anything with a team concept theirs Jealously external and internal..When people say that micheal jordan is a ball hog...and doesn't pass the ball...I guess they're jealous...as for the x-men they are logical reason for distaste on what has been done to certain characters.......you might say Jealousy..Some might say used inappropriately(screen time,etc)...I haven't seen much of halle hate and its just she was the first to demand something of the whole cast and got it!!!... its mostly the Hugh Jackman/Wolverine hate...LOL

 

[danoyse]

Keep trying with your actual BS lies. If it was so popular with the mainstream community, why did it have such a large drop-off rate? Hell for it to get destroyed by a film that X3 should've destroyed is pathetic.

Oy. It's at $441 million worldwide right now. It's the highest grossing X-Men movie.

And my friend really liked it. She stayed through the credits. In fact, she heard there was going to be a Wolverine spinoff and announced "Well Hugh better be in it!" loudly in the middle of the office. I'm not lying.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

or maybe we have to look around them to see what the other characters are doing?......its already been stated by Kinberg X3 was a Halle and Hugh movie...they have the most the say and what is to be done with this movie since fox uses them to market the movie....would they say anything?..don't know....would they want to use this to help benefit their careers? yes...they are doin they jobs

Jealousy the easy way out huh....yeah and it comes with the package...anything with a team concept theirs Jealously external and internal..When people say that micheal jordan is a ball hog...and doesn't pass the ball...I guess they're jealous...as for the x-men they are logical reason for distaste on what has been done to certain characters.......you might say Jealousy..Some might say used inappropriately(screen time,etc)...I haven't seen much of halle hate and its just she was the first to demand something of the whole cast and got it!!!... its mostly the Hugh Jackman/Wolverine hate...LOL

I don't hate Hugh at all. I actually like the guy and find him to be probably one of the more level headed celebrities in Hollywood. You'd be hard pressed to find anything horrible about the man.

I know he had nothing to do with the politics of X3, neither did Halle. It was a political agenda all put together by Fox and Rothman. I don't hate Wolverine's character. I just find him to be the John Cena of X-Men. In other words he's an overexposed character which results with people getting bored, tired, and fed up with the character.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Oy. It's at $441 million worldwide right now. It's the highest grossing X-Men movie.

And my friend really liked it. She stayed through the credits. In fact, she heard there was going to be a Wolverine spinoff and announced "Well Hugh better be in it!" loudly in the middle of the office. I'm not lying.

Of course she'll say that, she knows nothing about the comics and is just the typical mainstream audience. What I was saying is if it was such a hit with the mainstream audience, why did it get destroyed by a romantic comedy?

Yes, I know it's made its budget back and that's fine. Good for Fox, good for the actors, and good for those who enjoyed the film. But you have to understand that overseas markets don't get the films the same day as America does.

So when it opens in a market like Europe, London, Japan, or Russia it'll do really well because they have a higher anticipation level than we would have here in America to an extent.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

Actors schedules are nothing more than an excuse to cover the truth.

Fox/Rothman sat on their collective asses after the immediate success of X2 as it was critically acclaimed, financially successful, and was an overall smash hit in general. Instead of them immediately resigning Singer they sat on their thumbs and didn't budge at all.

So after a long specific wait certain actors got tired of waiting and went on to do other projects. Singer, who got tired of waiting, decided to do Superman Returns and that's when Fox all of a sudden wants to get up to rush out an X-Men movie just to beat out SR. Now, if SR had came out a year later, I bet Fox would still be in the same position that they were in when Singer was still on board as the director.

As I said, Fox loves people who defend their decisions and defend a product without questions. I guess that's what makes the villain more interesting than certain heroes. Villains don't follow blindly and ask questions.

I'm merely asking questions, providing facts, and trying to educate those who clearly don't understand the comics or how storytelling is important to the overall concept of these particular themes. If you enjoy the movie that's fine, I've not called you any names just because you enjoyed it.

But when you say you enjoy it, you don't provide any real intelligent reasons except for "Because Logan is popular!", "Jean and Scott are boring!!", "X1/X2 didn't have enough action, I want action!!!!". Those aren't intelligent debates nor are they factual.

Us "detractors" or "haters" provide reasons for our dislike and it's people like you, Danoyse, YJ1, and X-Maniac who get upset whenever we voice our own different opinions of X3. Last I recall it was you and others who got upset for hurting your feelings about X3. I'll voice my displeasure until a change is made or until Marvel gets the rights back from Fox.

Names? I believe "Rothman Loyalists" come to mind... either way, you make some sore accusations that aren't right.

I'm a huge comic book fan; I know the X-Men, I know the themes. But I enjoyed this movie, and think it fit in with the first two (anyone can feel free to try to rip me apart for voicing an honest optinion). Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems you accuse those who enjoy the movie of being people who don't really grasp at it's themes and aren't fans of the comic book. But, that couldn't be more incorrect.

You say that you go around spreading facts?

Actors schedules are nothing more than an excuse to cover the truth.

Fox/Rothman sat on their collective asses after the immediate success of X2 as it was critically acclaimed, financially successful, and was an overall smash hit in general. Instead of them immediately resigning Singer they sat on their thumbs and didn't budge at all.

So after a long specific wait certain actors got tired of waiting and went on to do other projects. Singer, who got tired of waiting, decided to do Superman Returns and that's when Fox all of a sudden wants to get up to rush out an X-Men movie just to beat out SR. Now, if SR had came out a year later, I bet Fox would still be in the same position that they were in when Singer was still on board as the director.

Those don't sound much like facts, unless of course, you went and talked to FOX about their plans... otherwise they are just another couple accusations to add to your ever-growing list.


Comic Fans can like this movie; I did.

I'm sure LS! probably doesn't want much argument in his thread, so why don't we cut this off?

 

[weatherwitch]

Actors schedules are nothing more than an excuse to cover the truth.

Fox/Rothman sat on their collective asses after the immediate success of X2 as it was critically acclaimed, financially successful, and was an overall smash hit in general. Instead of them immediately resigning Singer they sat on their thumbs and didn't budge at all.

So after a long specific wait certain actors got tired of waiting and went on to do other projects. Singer, who got tired of waiting, decided to do Superman Returns and that's when Fox all of a sudden wants to get up to rush out an X-Men movie just to beat out SR. Now, if SR had came out a year later, I bet Fox would still be in the same position that they were in when Singer was still on board as the director.

As I said, Fox loves people who defend their decisions and defend a product without questions. I guess that's what makes the villain more interesting than certain heroes. Villains don't follow blindly and ask questions.

I'm merely asking questions, providing facts, and trying to educate those who clearly don't understand the comics or how storytelling is important to the overall concept of these particular themes. If you enjoy the movie that's fine, I've not called you any names just because you enjoyed it.

But when you say you enjoy it, you don't provide any real intelligent reasons except for "Because Logan is popular!", "Jean and Scott are boring!!", "X1/X2 didn't have enough action, I want action!!!!". Those aren't intelligent debates nor are they factual.

Us "detractors" or "haters" provide reasons for our dislike and it's people like you, Danoyse, YJ1, and X-Maniac who get upset whenever we voice our own different opinions of X3. Last I recall it was you and others who got upset for hurting your feelings about X3. I'll voice my displeasure until a change is made or until Marvel gets the rights back from Fox.

Feel free to point out anywhere that I've said any of the above mentioned quotes. I mean it, feel free. The conspiracy theory Fox sat on their collentive money grubbing asses? That's what your running with? And before you try and "educate" those without an understanding of the comics or storytelling you should probably make sure you know who you're trying to 'school'. I could run circles around you blindfolded in this debate. Don't believe me? Don't care. LS and the late (great in his own mind) Pejo could tell you. The reason I don't rehash the same tired arguements over and over and point/counterpoint everything you say is quite simple really. I don't care enough to. You amuse me. That's enough. I don't need to "win" an arguement that isn't worth arguing over to feel vindicated. I'm ok with X3. I understand that REAL world ***** sometimes interferes with the land of make-believe. Alls right in my world. Sorry yours sucks so bad

 

[weatherwitch]

Comic Fans can like this movie; I did.

I'm sure LS! probably doesn't want much argument in his thread, so why don't we cut this off?

X3 was fine.

As for LS not wanting arguing? That's blasphamey! He set this thread up to lure detractors to their doom. He's baiting them. look overhead, you can see his large rubber sole ready to stomp.

 

[Mike059jig]

Comic Fans can like this movie; I did.

you did good..now don't be so Universal with that Post cause I can give you alot of detractors....I've always seen X3 as spliting the fan base...Ok I love the X-men and can be Cynical of them its not hard at all....Its not hard to say you like it either

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Names? I believe "Rothman Loyalists" come to mind... either way, you make some sore accusations that aren't right.

I'm a huge comic book fan; I know the X-Men, I know the themes. But I enjoyed this movie, and think it fit in with the first two (anyone can feel free to try to rip me apart for voicing an honest optinion). Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems you accuse those who enjoy the movie of being people who don't really grasp at it's themes and aren't fans of the comic book. But, that couldn't be more incorrect.

You say that you go around spreading facts?



Those don't sound much like facts, unless of course, you went and talked to FOX about their plans... otherwise they are just another couple accusations to add to your ever-growing list.

Comic Fans can like this movie; I did.

I'm sure LS! probably doesn't want much argument in his thread, so why don't we cut this off?

The bolded part was basically confirmed by Singer, Jimmy, Famke(On MANY instances), and so on. I remember Famke saying by her own admission, " I don't know if there's going to be another one. They're waiting a long time and they haven't told me anything."

I'm sure LS doesn't want an argument in this thread, but I'm sure he understands where I'm coming from and understands that I'm voicing my displeasure for a movie that I waited three years for.

Yes, it's left a bitter taste in my mouth. But I will not shut up just because some Logan fan or Fox defender gets their feelings hurt because I state a fact.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

I agree on all of your points about Halle (except that she doesn't seem more prominent in the third)... but what I should point out, kindly, is that this thread was about only 2 H's... you spoke no word on defending Hugh's position.

Hey TOB,


Well, that was deliberate. I can more readily understand the argument that Hugh has dominated the screentime more so than any character in this franchise--he has. But I also understand the business reasons for him being the frontman. He is the BIGGEST reason this franchise has been successful. The mainstream audience doesn't have a problem with him--it's the fanboys and fangirls here who do. And this hatred for Hugh Jackman is restricted to these communities...I honestly don't hear it anywhere else.

My point is that Logan's role in X3 has not changed one iota from what he had in the prior films. He was primed from day one to take the lead in this franchise. Hugh Jackman's Hollywood star outshines that of James Marsdens', just like Halle Berry's does with Famke Janssen's. These are facts--not opinions. Yet, marketing notwithstanding, Hugh, Famke, Ian, etc have enjoyed more screentime and development than Halle Berry overall.

So I think it's interesting how many want Halle's head chopped off now that she's joined their elite "circle" of marquee. Such rants come across biased.

 

[Mike059jig]

Hey TOB,
So I think it's interesting how many want Halle's head chopped off now that she's joined their elite "circle" of marquee. Such rants come across biased.

I think it comes from the fact the everyone was granted the screen time by who ever is making the film..and she was the first to come out and ask for more to do

 

[The Original Bamfer]

The bolded part was basically confirmed by Singer, Jimmy, Famke(On MANY instances), and so on. I remember Famke saying by her own admission, " I don't know if there's going to be another one. They're waiting a long time and they haven't told me anything."

I'm sure LS doesn't want an argument in this thread, but I'm sure he understands where I'm coming from and understands that I'm voicing my displeasure for a movie that I waited three years for.

Yes, it's left a bitter taste in my mouth. But I will not shut up just because some Logan fan or Fox defender gets their feelings hurt because I state a fact.

I hate Wolverine. I don't care about Fox. Accusations... State your opinion, but don't accuse others like you just did. Seriously, that is what angers me, your assumptions about people suck hardcore. I'm fine you don't like the movie, but it'd be best if you kept your blind judgment quiet.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

I hate Wolverine. I don't care about Fox. Accusations... State your opinion, but don't accuse others like you just did. Seriously, that is what angers me, your assumptions about people suck hardcore. I'm fine you don't like the movie, but it'd be best if you kept your blind judgment quiet.

My assumption about people suck? You call it sucking and blind judgment, I call it being honest and if some perceive it as being too harsh, then so be it. I don't care.

I'm merely calling them out on their lies. If they can't handle it then maybe they need to move on and educate themselves before debating. I'm not trying to change their mind; but I don't appreciate them trying to make me feel guilty or ashamed because of their crush on Hugh Jackman/Wolverine.

I know that what's done is done. Right now, I can't change what happened and the movie is a success. I know that, I understand it, and I accept it. But I will not silence my voice because some Logan fan wants me to shut up and accept their opinion as fact. I'm sorry, it will not happen.

They can twist, turn, and lie all they want. But in the end I know what I saw and what I saw wasn't an X-Men movie.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

As for LS not wanting arguing? That's blasphamey! He set this thread up to lure detractors to their doom. He's baiting them. look overhead, you can see his large rubber sole ready to stomp.

(I know... and that is why I must contribute... that foot needs a good provoking)

 

[TrailerCues]

What's REALLY Going On Here? I think the answer is quite simple. Fans here just have their favorite charcter(s) & everyone likes differnet things about the X-Men. I think most here can not handle the fact that people have their own opinions & they like something else others dont about X-Men & ecah side take things way to seriously when one person does not see things the way they do.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

If it was such a hit with the mainstream audience then it shouldn't have gotten trounced by a romantic comedy with Vince Vaughn/Jennifer Aniston.

Keep trying with your actual BS lies. If it was so popular with the mainstream community, why did it have such a large drop-off rate? Hell for it to get destroyed by a film that X3 should've destroyed is pathetic.

Are you....serious?

Tell me, will this "romantic comedy" (the title of which I can't even remember right now) finish in the top 5 grossing films of the year? The Top 10 even? Does it have a gross bucking $500 million sans DVD sales?

Who really destroyed who here?

X3 was fine.

As for LS not wanting arguing? That's blasphamey! He set this thread up to lure detractors to their doom. He's baiting them. look overhead, you can see his large rubber sole ready to stomp.

Moi? Never!

LS encourages healthy debate and passionate discussion. Doom only awaits those who can't articulate themselves like they've got some sense.

Just because I'm a mod doesn't mean I lack an opinion ya know...

 

[danoyse]

Of course she'll say that, she knows nothing about the comics and is just the typical mainstream audience. What I was saying is if it was such a hit with the mainstream audience, why did it get destroyed by a romantic comedy?

And what's so terrible about her not knowing the comics? She liked "The Breakup" too...which didn't "destroy" X3. It made $118 million vs. X3's $233 million, and from what I've heard, had a mixed reaction from audiences as well.

But I will not shut up just because some Logan fan or Fox defender gets their feelings hurt because I state a fact.

No one is telling you to shut up. Like I've said before, I totally respect your opinion...even if I don't agree. What I can't stand is constant "loyalist" accusations just because my opinion is different than yours.

I think we can agree to disagree, and discuss our differences without insulting each other.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

My assumption about people suck? You call it sucking and blind judgment, I call it being honest and if some perceive it as being too harsh, then so be it. I don't care.

I'm merely calling them out on their lies. If they can't handle it then maybe they need to move on and educate themselves before debating. I'm not trying to change their mind; but I don't appreciate them trying to make me feel guilty or ashamed because of their crush on Hugh Jackman/Wolverine.

I know that what's done is done. Right now, I can't change what happened and the movie is a success. I know that, I understand it, and I accept it. But I will not silence my voice because some Logan fan wants me to shut up and accept their opinion as fact. I'm sorry, it will not happen.

They can twist, turn, and lie all they want. But in the end I know what I saw and what I saw wasn't an X-Men movie.

For Example:
1. I liked X-Men: The Last Stand
2. I am a huge fan of Cyclops
3. I really dislike Wolverine (In the comics, in the cartoons, etc...)
4. I could care less about FOX. they make movies, I watch them.

Now, from seeing that, is it fair to say that I like Wolverine/Logan or FOX because I enjoyed TLS? No...

And may I advise some help on that paranoia? Not all Logan Fans are out to get you...

 

[The Original Bamfer]

Hey TOB,


Well, that was deliberate. I can more readily understand the argument that Hugh has dominated the screentime more so than any character in this franchise--he has. But I also understand the business reasons for him being the frontman. He is the BIGGEST reason this franchise has been successful. The mainstream audience doesn't have a problem with him--it's the fanboys and fangirls here who do. And this hatred for Hugh Jackman is restricted to these communities...I honestly don't hear it anywhere else.

My point is that Logan's role in X3 has not changed one iota from what he had in the prior films. He was primed from day one to take the lead in this franchise. Hugh Jackman's Hollywood star outshines that of James Marsdens', just like Halle Berry's does with Famke Janssen's. These are facts--not opinions. Yet, marketing notwithstanding, Hugh, Famke, Ian, etc have enjoyed more screentime and development than Halle Berry overall.

So I think it's interesting how many want Halle's head chopped off now that she's joined their elite "circle" of marquee. Such rants come across biased.

I agree


(EDIT from previous as it was a duplicate originally)