The 3 H's: What's REALLY Going On Here?

[TrailerCues]

is it fair to say that I like Wolverine/Logan or FOX because I enjoyed TLS? No

But sadly that is what happens. If you say you did not like a thing or two about the Movie your right away someone who did not like the Movie in general

 

[weatherwitch]

And may I advise some help on that paranoia? Not all Logan Fans are out to get you...

Yes, yes they are!!! MWuhahahahahahahahaahahahaha!!!

I support paranoia...which is why I'm a stalker.

Speaking of which, where'd LS go. "ohhhh, honeeeeey..."

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

But sadly that is what happens. If you say you did not like a thing or two about the Movie your right away someone who did not like the Movie in general

Well, it's no secret that only the Sith deal in absolutes...and the Hype is infested with Sith Lords...big fanboys with little lightsabers.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

how come i only see TOB's post and not the last post in this thread?

Edit: NVM...


On topic: I don't hate Halle/Hugh... I just wished each actor got their screentime they deserved. Though, in the movie making industry, it doesn't always go this way. What X3 lacked was balance between the characters and their relationship to each other.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

My dislike of Halle (I won't say "hatred", because I've only ever truly "hated" 2 people in my life, and for legitamate reasons. I've never met Halle to hate her, love her, or any of the above) comes from her post-Monster's Ball arrogance.

And what do I mean by that?

The "I won't do anymore comic book movies, they are below me, I'm an Oscar winning actress now" mentality that she brought. Then she did Catwoman...

She's too good for X-Men, which despite being a comic book movie, brings some depth to the character and plot, and a bit of intelligence, but Catwoman is okay?

That's where my dislike comes from her. Because of the impression I got of her, because of an attitude she presented after she won her Oscar.

I don't care about screentime. I'm fine with that. I understand that it's Halle Berry, she's gonna get her screentime. And it's Storm, a VERY major player in the comics. No problems there.

I'm also not a big fan of her portrayal of Storm. Now I understand that a lot of it was in the writing of the character, which was done wrong in all 3 movies. But I'm just also not a fan of her portrayal of the character either.

So yea, personally, my dislike, or whatever you want to call it, of Halle, has nothing to do with her screentime. And I have absolutley no ill feelings towards Hugh Jackman or the character of Wolverine. I felt that he was given a role he shouldn't have had in the final movie, but that's the fault of the filmmakers, not the character himself or the actor.

 

[Goddessreicho]

LS, are a secret mind reader. You know how I feel about Halle. No, she's not perfect, but the lack of respect she gets is ABNORMAL. Holy crap, and comparing her to Famke is riduculas, neither one deserves that.

Hugh has done all that he could with Wolverine, as did Halle. The fault of the accent in the first movie can be placed on SINGER and Hal. If she couldn't hold it for whatever reason, Singer could have cut and reshot those scenes. That's his job as a freakin director.

People blame her for wanting more. But as you said before, she had barely anything to begin with, as one of the original x-men. She was NEVER essential to any of the plots nor was she important battle wise. Even in X3. She had very little to do with the cure and absolutely nothing to do with Jean. People around the Hype love to put the blame on CINO, *oooh she sucked in that soooo much*. I'll have you know that every cast member in X-men has been in a disator movie or television series.

Your right none of that gets mentioned. It is totally biased. People LOVE scapegoats. The H's are perfect targets. Halle seems to be a bullseye.

Sure she got into an accident and drove away. I've seen that brought up as fuel for the fire for the big anti Hal/ pro Famke movemnt. People just have no idea how wrong that was. Jesus, the woman goes into a diabetic shock and its being held against her. WTF.

The jealousy is so evil. People hate the fact that despite the film disaters she's been in, and the abuse, the public divorces and want not, she still has a fantastic in demand career.

Hugh was made by X-men. Where as Ben, Mei, Famke, Anna, Dan, Rebecca and others aren't known outside of the franchise for thier roles. Halle was already fairly well known going in. So yeah its jealousy. It runs rampant throughout all comic forums for this specific reason.

edit: hmm have a taste of my brilliance in thought... my signature is the bestest, only second to WW's :P

 

[The Original Bamfer]

Well, it's no secret that only the Sith deal in absolutes...and the Hype is infested with Sith Lords...big fanboys with little lightsabers.

And I am a Jedi Master...

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

And I am a Jedi Master...

then we Jedi Masters have bigger lightsabers

 

[The Original Bamfer]

then we Jedi Masters have bigger lightsabers

(yes I do)

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

(yes I do)

correction: We do... hehe...

 

[Mike059jig]

People blame her for wanting more. But as you said before, she had barely anything to begin with, as one of the original x-men. She was NEVER essential to any of the plots nor was she important battle wise. Even in X3. She had very little to do with the cure and absolutely nothing to do with Jean.

Why do people twist the Situation around...People don't blame her for wanting more...people just take notice of her asking to do more..and the only cast member in doing so.......People look at that situation a little different...and Nelly pointed out some things that I remember hearing about as well

 

[The Original Bamfer]

I honestly respect Halle for speaking up. I think she really wanted more for her character; not just herself - which people assume. Just because Storm got more character than she had, doesn't mean she stole any screen time.

Storm was vital in X2; she saved all of human-kind from Dark Cerebro. Just to prove she wasn't useless.

 

[Mike059jig]

Storm was vital in X2; she saved all of human-kind from Dark Cerebro. Just to prove she wasn't useless.

Yes storm was but halle wanted more from that...as in interviews she wanted to flesh out the character in X3

 

[Goddessreicho]

Uhm, yeah how dare she demand a part that's worth the paycheck. (Sarcasm!)

 

[Karea07]

I love Halle and she should have had a bigger part in X3.

 

[Goddessreicho]

I honestly respect Halle for speaking up. I think she really wanted more for her character; not just herself - which people assume. Just because Storm got more character than she had, doesn't mean she stole any screen time.

Storm was vital in X2; she saved all of human-kind from Dark Cerebro. Just to prove she wasn't useless.

I hear OB, but what else did she do? Other than Kurt who else did she discuss non mission things too. She served no real purpose other than a tool for missions and tight white shirts in the backround. X3 we see Hal actually doing something with her time on screen. It still wasn't essential, but it wasn't nearly as shallow as it was previously. Which is what she asked for.

 

[Obsidian]

I don't blame Hugh at all, nor Halle that much, but the "creative" team and FOX for my disappointment with X-Men 3.

Yes storm was but halle wanted more from that...as in interviews she wanted to flesh out the character in X3

Seems like she failed to accomplish that.

 

[Kurosawa]

I don't hate Hugh or Halle, but I do hate X3 and they are both responsible to a certain extent of it being what it is.

That said, I'd much rather never see either of them in an X-Men movie ever again. Hugh should take is Eastwood routine and do real westerns, and Halle should stick with drama. That's their real strengths to me.

Hugh would make an awesome Jonah Hex. THAT'S the comics character I'd love to see him play.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

I hear OB, but what else did she do? Other than Kurt who else did she discuss non mission things too. She served no real purpose other than a tool for missions and tight white shirts in the backround. X3 we see Hal actually doing something with her time on screen. It still wasn't essential, but it wasn't nearly as shallow as it was previously. Which is what she asked for.

I agree, she had very little emotional impact in any of the movies... if that is what you mean. She did seem to be pretty against the cure, which was nice. But I would have appreciated some more angst about three of her oldest friends being gone, other than at Xavier's funeral.

 

[Goddessreicho]

That's the god awful writting and the lack of editorial skills in not noticing the freaggin plot holes, not the H's doing that.

It was also the writting that doomed Storm's character from the first movie.

 

[BMM]

Before I am most likely flamed by Halle Berry/Storm fans, let me preface this by saying that I don’t dislike Halle Berry or her portrayal of Storm. I have nothing against her or Jackman. I am simply attempting to answer Lightning Strikez!.

I have to agree with your assessments.

When you compare the two characters, Jean really has always been the frontwoman storywise in this franchise--especially in X2 and X3. In fact, the latter film revolved completely around her actions. In my estimation Jean played second fiddle to Storm in the marketing materials for this franchise only--not the films' plots.

I disagree. Storywise, I don't find Storm plays second fiddle to Jean in X-Men or X2, especially X-Men. Jean is very much the underwhelming, background member of the team, as she should be in her early depictions. Janssen is given a couple of nice, small character moments with Wolverine in X-Men and little else. Conversely, Berry is also given a couple of nice character moments; one with Logan no less, but unlike Janssen, Berry is given devoted power pieces, which showcase her abilities as an X-Man as well as being an effective team member. She disposes of Toad and Sabretooth in a couple of the first film’s most memorable moments.

X2 very much captures aspects of Storm’s leadership abilities as well as her motherly instincts. She is above par when compared to the majority of the other characters in the film, and it is only until Jean’s sacrifice, that Jean pulls ahead in terms of plot moments in X2. Yes, Jean sacrifices herself in order to save the X-Men, but we all know this to simply be a plot device in order to present the Phoenix/Dark Phoenix storyline. Jean may have saved the X-Men but Storm saves the X-Men and the world. If there was no Storm, there would be no X-Men to save.

Yet, despite the fact that Jean had such quality screentime and development no one cries bloody war that she's sucking screentime off of other characters.

Perhaps because Janssen, who has equal or less memorable moments in X-Men and essentially equal moments in X2, never threatened to leave if she wasn’t given more to do. This has been an issue since the first film and continues to be through The Last Stand. All of these characters maintain a deep, rich history in the Marvel Universe, and it has been acknowledged many times that this is an ensemble movie . . . everyone seems to acknowledge this . . . so why of all people, is Halle Berry, who is clearly not in the minority in terms of character presence or development, complaining? They were contemplating offering Berry her own Storm movie no less.

http://www.superherohype.com/news/x-mennews.php?id=1824
http://www.superherohype.com/news/x-mennews.php?id=2688
http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-main.html?2004-05/07/13.00.film
http://www.superherohype.com/news/x-mennews.php?id=1340
http://www.superherohype.com/news/x-mennews.php?id=594
http://www.superherohype.com/news/x-mennews.php?id=575

(This back and forth nonsense seems to have caused more tension over any other cast character throughout the course of the trilogy).

But when you sit down and think about it--she definitely was, just as much--if not more so--than Storm. Jean had two STORYLINES devoted to her. Ditto for Magneto. He too ate up time that could've been spent on Rogue, Bobby, etc. And yet, I'm not seeing the same complaining pattern. What's the difference??

Jean is simply written that way in the source material. Unfortunately, Storm is not. With the exception of her tryst with Forge, Storm has never had a deep, prolonged love interest until very recently. Instead, like in the comic books, Storm is given character moments elsewhere. In this case, she has nice character moments with Jean, Nightcrawler, and the children. In regards to the Dark Phoenix Saga, remember, you’re comparing Halle Berry’s Storm to the first X-woman who happens to maintain the most popular character arc in the history of X-Men (not to mention one of the most popular arcs in the history of comic books). We all knew this storyline was coming. This character arc overshadows all of the X-Men and not just Berry’s Storm. If this is what Berry is being compared to, then I don’t think she has such a raw deal.

There is no expectation for Storm to be on par with Magneto, nor should she be. Magneto represents the mutant foil for the entirety of Xavier's dream. He is the most prominent X-villain, representing everything the X-Men oppose, and he is not a member of an ensemble team. As such, he will obviously have more screen time than Storm, as his ideology is representative of a whole, distinct viewpoint in the human/mutant dynamic.

And so I find this differentiation very intriguing.

Funny....As soon as Storm is finally doing more on the level of her peers, suddenly she's Public Enemy #2.

Comments like these I don’t understand. What do you mean when Storm is finally more on the level of her peers? When was she ever not on the level of Cyclops or Jean in X-Men (or Mystique, Sabretooth, Senator Kelly, Toad)?

When is she not on her peers’ level in X2? Particularly Cyclops, not to mention Colossus, Iceman, Jubilee, Lady Deathstryke, Mystique, Professor Xavier, Pyro, Rogue, etc. Storm is essentially on par with Jean Grey and Nightcrawler. The only characters she isn’t on par with are Magneto, Wolverine, and Stryker. In The Last Stand, she has just as much, if not more to do than Angel, Arclight, Cyclops, Colossus, Dr. Kavita Rao, Juggernaut, Kitty Pryde, Iceman, Leech, Mystique, Psylocke, Pyro, Quills, Rogue, Warren Worthington Sr., etc.

Where on the totem pole does Storm have to be in order to be considered on equal footing with her peers all of which have just as lengthy of histories as she does?

This is what gets me though. Previous experience would lead us to believe Berry’s inability to incorporate more of Storm’s character likenesses are due to the decisions of the previous creative team. Yet, with all of her supposed knowledge and yearning to do so, when given the opportunity under a new creative team, it appears Berry does absolutely nothing to capitalize on her chances to do what she has been talking about doing for the past six years.

There is a prime opportunity with Xavier on the balcony in which to showcase a discussion regarding Storm’s origins and her reasoning for becoming an X-man and, after six years of complaining about not being able to do so, absolutely nothing is done with it. Kitty Pryde, a character with whom Storm shares a nice relationship, is now given the time to interact with Storm, again potentially showcasing a number of Storm’s personality traits (especially given the circumstances that befall the X-Men in The Last Stand) and nothing memorable is done to capitalize on the opportunity. Jean and Storm, former friends and teammates, never interact with each other once in the movie—more characterization lost. Xavier asks Storm to head the school if anything should happen to him, and what does she do? She immediately begins discussing closing the school. Of all people, I believe Iceman is the voice of reason. Storm, who understands enough about Xavier’s dream to incorporate it into his eulogy, which she delivers, has been personally asked by Xavier to continue his dream, and she isn’t even the voice of reason when deciding whether or not to keep the school open. Thank God for Warren.

Six years of complaints, questions of recasting, a studio visibly on her side, a director and experience she now very much seems to like, and absolutely nothing new is brought to the table. Instead we have more fog, lightning, she is beat up in a fist fight again, and mimics the same speech she gave to Wolverine in a movie made over 6 years ago. What was all the drama for? The writers are apparently quoted as saying the studio mandated The Last Stand be a Hugh/Halle production and the producers have been boasting about beefing up her role and further developing her character—so what happened?

I don’t dislike Halle Berry, and I certainly don’t hate her as Storm either. Yet she has clearly been the most vocal regarding her character, and her character already had a fair share of screen time in comparison to others. After all of the nail biting and reports regarding studio parameters and other characters in addition to producer promises, for whatever reason, Berry now seems satisfied . . . but in reality, it looks to have changed nothing with the exception of annoying people along the way. This is why I think Berry has become an easy target over the past 6 years.

 

[Mike059jig]

Great Post...

 

[CapBeerCino]

**glances at signature** Yeah. That was a cute little rant though.

You sig is a cute rant as well

A little re-editing = "Waaa, waaa, every frikkin fanboy on here say X3 sucked and Singer coulda done it better, and everything was flawed, and nothing was consistent..."

 

[WideAwake]

I don't think anyone had a problem with both characters and their actors untill after X3. There have been some complaints towards Halle's Storm, but that was more about the character being badly written, or Halle just not being the right actress for the part.

The "hate" really kicked in with X3, I'd say. Another movie that has Wolverine in the spotlight, even though it's understandable FOX would want him there since he apperantly is the most popular X Man. Also, the fact that Hugh and Halle took parts that weren't theirs in what was supposed to be the Phoenix saga didn't do good with the fans either.

Hugh got the screentime because his Wolverine is very popular. Same with McKellen's Magneto; you've got to at least have one villain that's properly develloped. But regardles of your first post, I hardly think Halle had anything to do with the succes of the X Men movies.
Jean got the most character development of any X Woman, since they were setting up the Phoenix arc.

It just seems to me that Halle wanted the X Men movies to be about her, since she didn't get her own Jinx franchise, and Catwoman flopped.
Halle during the first X Men movie: "It's nice to be part of an ensamble, and not to carry an entire movie on your back. It's nice to just do your part and be able to go home afterwards."
Then after X2, Halle complained her part was too small, and that she didn't have anything to do. After X3: "I'm really happy with this new Storm that emerged, and the direction these movies are taking now that I have a say in it."

It's all great that she stood up for her character, and demanded more say in what way they were taking it, but I hardly think it was all about the character. It was about herself.
And they could have done something interesting with the character. She doesn't need to be a *****, spin around and throw lightning around to be an interesting character.
FOX bragged about doing the Phoenix saga, but when they are later saying "we couldn't have her say too much, because this is really Hugh and Halle's movie" something is very wrong.

 

[@JeanGrey]

Before I am most likely flamed by Halle Berry/Storm fans, let me preface this by saying that I don’t dislike Halle Berry or her portrayal of Storm. I have nothing against her or Jackman. I am simply attempting to answer Lightning Strikez!.



I disagree. Storywise, I don't find Storm plays second fiddle to Jean in X-Men or X2, especially X-Men. Jean is very much the underwhelming, background member of the team, as she should be in her early depictions. Janssen is given a couple of nice, small character moments with Wolverine in X-Men and little else. Conversely, Berry is also given a couple of nice character moments; one with Logan no less, but unlike Janssen, Berry is given devoted power pieces, which showcase her abilities as an X-Man as well as being an effective team member. She disposes of Toad and Sabretooth in a couple of the first film’s most memorable moments.

X2 very much captures aspects of Storm’s leadership abilities as well as her motherly instincts. She is above par when compared to the majority of the other characters in the film, and it is only until Jean’s sacrifice, that Jean pulls ahead in terms of plot moments in X2. Yes, Jean sacrifices herself in order to save the X-Men, but we all know this to simply be a plot device in order to present the Phoenix/Dark Phoenix storyline. Jean may have saved the X-Men but Storm saves the X-Men and the world. If there was no Storm, there would be no X-Men to save.



Perhaps because Janssen, who has equal or less memorable moments in X-Men and essentially equal moments in X2, never threatened to leave if she wasn’t given more to do. This has been an issue since the first film and continues to be through The Last Stand. All of these characters maintain a deep, rich history in the Marvel Universe, and it has been acknowledged many times that this is an ensemble movie . . . everyone seems to acknowledge this . . . so why of all people, is Halle Berry, who is clearly not in the minority in terms of character presence or development, complaining? They were contemplating offering Berry her own Storm movie no less.

http://www.superherohype.com/news/x-mennews.php?id=1824
http://www.superherohype.com/news/x-mennews.php?id=2688
http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-main.html?2004-05/07/13.00.film
http://www.superherohype.com/news/x-mennews.php?id=1340
http://www.superherohype.com/news/x-mennews.php?id=594
http://www.superherohype.com/news/x-mennews.php?id=575

(This back and forth nonsense seems to have caused more tension over any other cast character throughout the course of the trilogy).



Jean is simply written that way in the source material. Unfortunately, Storm is not. With the exception of her tryst with Forge, Storm has never had a deep, prolonged love interest until very recently. Instead, like in the comic books, Storm is given character moments elsewhere. In this case, she has nice character moments with Jean, Nightcrawler, and the children. In regards to the Dark Phoenix Saga, remember, you’re comparing Halle Berry’s Storm to the first X-woman who happens to maintain the most popular character arc in the history of X-Men (not to mention one of the most popular arcs in the history of comic books). We all knew this storyline was coming. This character arc overshadows all of the X-Men and not just Berry’s Storm. If this is what Berry is being compared to, then I don’t think she has such a raw deal.

There is no expectation for Storm to be on par with Magneto, nor should she be. Magneto represents the mutant foil for the entirety of Xavier's dream. He is the most prominent X-villain, representing everything the X-Men oppose, and he is not a member of an ensemble team. As such, he will obviously have more screen time than Storm, as his ideology is representative of a whole, distinct viewpoint in the human/mutant dynamic.



Comments like these I don’t understand. What do you mean when Storm is finally more on the level of her peers? When was she ever not on the level of Cyclops or Jean in X-Men (or Mystique, Sabretooth, Senator Kelly, Toad)?

When is she not on her peers’ level in X2? Particularly Cyclops, not to mention Colossus, Iceman, Jubilee, Lady Deathstryke, Mystique, Professor Xavier, Pyro, Rogue, etc. Storm is essentially on par with Jean Grey and Nightcrawler. The only characters she isn’t on par with are Magneto, Wolverine, and Stryker. In The Last Stand, she has just as much, if not more to do than Angel, Arclight, Cyclops, Colossus, Dr. Kavita Rao, Juggernaut, Kitty Pryde, Iceman, Leech, Mystique, Psylocke, Pyro, Quills, Rogue, Warren Worthington Sr., etc.

Where on the totem pole does Storm have to be in order to be considered on equal footing with her peers all of which have just as lengthy of histories as she does?

This is what gets me though. Previous experience would lead us to believe Berry’s inability to incorporate more of Storm’s character likenesses are due to the decisions of the previous creative team. Yet, with all of her supposed knowledge and yearning to do so, when given the opportunity under a new creative team, it appears Berry does absolutely nothing to capitalize on her chances to do what she has been talking about doing for the past six years.

There is a prime opportunity with Xavier on the balcony in which to showcase a discussion regarding Storm’s origins and her reasoning for becoming an X-man and, after six years of complaining about not being able to do so, absolutely nothing is done with it. Kitty Pryde, a character with whom Storm shares a nice relationship, is now given the time to interact with Storm, again potentially showcasing a number of Storm’s personality traits (especially given the circumstances that befall the X-Men in The Last Stand) and nothing memorable is done to capitalize on the opportunity. Jean and Storm, former friends and teammates, never interact with each other once in the movie—more characterization lost. Xavier asks Storm to head the school if anything should happen to him, and what does she do? She immediately begins discussing closing the school. Of all people, I believe Iceman is the voice of reason. Storm, who understands enough about Xavier’s dream to incorporate it into his eulogy, which she delivers, has been personally asked by Xavier to continue his dream, and she isn’t even the voice of reason when deciding whether or not to keep the school open. Thank God for Warren.

Six years of complaints, questions of recasting, a studio visibly on her side, a director and experience she now very much seems to like, and absolutely nothing new is brought to the table. Instead we have more fog, lightning, she is beat up in a fist fight again, and mimics the same speech she gave to Wolverine in a movie made over 6 years ago. What was all the drama for? The writers are apparently quoted as saying the studio mandated The Last Stand be a Hugh/Halle production and the producers have been boasting about beefing up her role and further developing her character—so what happened?

I don’t dislike Halle Berry, and I certainly don’t hate her as Storm either. Yet she has clearly been the most vocal regarding her character, and her character already had a fair share of screen time in comparison to others. After all of the nail biting and reports regarding studio parameters and other characters in addition to producer promises, for whatever reason, Berry now seems satisfied . . . but in reality, it looks to have changed nothing with the exception of annoying people along the way. This is why I think Berry has become an easy target over the past 6 years.

This is the best post i have read in terms of arguments and reasoning in this thread (this doesn't mean i agree with everything)

About Halle Berry, i can tell this. Here in Greece all media started talking about her after winning the oscar.. Halle, Halle, Halle, interviews, photos, when she became Bond Girl...Not the same for oscar winner Anna Paquin or Famke Janssen.

I can recall Famke's role in JB Goldeneye... The way she portrayed Xenia. I also think Famke is really good actress, cause she is not afraid to play different kind of roles, diverse characters, and have good or even really good perfomances. She did portayed Jean really well under the circumstances of the movies and the guidances of the directors. I also think HAlle did what she could. It's a fact that her lines in the script did not help her at all, especially in X3 if the script was better she could have made the difference. She got more screen time, her name in first rows, photos, flashes. She is important for the franchise.And lets face it. FOX decides, not others!

I think she is a bit responsible for the 'hate' she earns from some people. But not the main responsible. I believe that even if she was not nagging about X-Men movies screen time, that would not change things a lot.

And i believe that they should show the relationship between Jean and Storm in the movies... Only a cut screen in X2 when Jean tells her about the kiss with Logan, shows something from the good relationship they do have. Storm and Jean are like sisters to each other in comics... Pitty we did not get it!

And i am not satisfied by Storm's overall picture in the movies. Storm is a leader, Halle could have portrayed it (the scene with Logan in X3 shows she can act as leader if writers let her) and they didn't

And like a way a greek would ask, this is my main question for the movies:
"Where is the (X-Men) leader, o-e-o ????"