The Acolyte: Episode 6 (Spoiler Thread)

[DarthSkywalker]

Mandalorian was designed to be an episodic show. Like proper TV. It was better when it was less serialized. I swear streaming is killing the television format. TV was built on "filler," aka character development, bottle eps, concept exercises, standalone adventures, etc, so I agree with Sithborg: remove the "filler"?? Nah, f*** that.

I do not understand why people think all TV is suppose to be just mini-series or extended films.

Imagine how butchered the Sopranos, Breaking Bad, and Mad Men would be with this philosophy. It's nuts.

 

[Snow Queen]

I dislike the term filler for one off adventures, myself. That's not filler. It's an episode. That's just an episode. Maybe a bad one, maybe a good one, but an episode. Filler, in my opinion, is what is plaguing this show. There's no one off adventures, but instead it just feels like every episode is a collection of things happening and then it ends. It lacks good episode structure and as a result, while things have occurred, I leave almost every episode feeling like "that's it?" The main character still feels so weak and poorly defined.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I dislike the term filler for one off adventures, myself. That's not filler. It's an episode. That's just an episode. Maybe a bad one, maybe a good one, but an episode. Filler, in my opinion, is what is plaguing this show. There's no one off adventures, but instead it just feels like every episode is a collection of things happening and then it ends. It lacks good episode structure and as a result, while things have occurred, I leave almost every episode feeling like "that's it?" The main character still feels so weak and poorly defined.

A lot of people grew up with Shonen anime, where when they the manga needed to catch up, they had actual filler. Where they made dozens of episodes to just watch the characters F around, until the overworked manga teams caught up. Because of a weekly release schedule.

 

[Snow Queen]

With regards to X-Files, I've only seen a handful of episodes. Someone gave me a list of twenty or so episodes that I'm left to assume have little bearing on any ongoing plots. But I never once walked away from one of those episodes feeling unsatisfied. Because they knew how to use the structure of TV to tell a story. This show, and a lot of shows gunning for that "prestige" sheen, just doesn't.

 

[flickchick85]

With regards to X-Files, I've only seen a handful of episodes. Someone gave me a list of twenty or so episodes that I'm left to assume have little bearing on any ongoing plots. But I never once walked away from one of those episodes feeling unsatisfied. Because they knew how to use the structure of TV to tell a story. This show, and a lot of shows gunning for that "prestige" sheen, just doesn't.

"Someone" approves this message!

 

[Sithborg]

I miss nice long seasons. I am not one to say that there is one model to fit all shows, but the gradual degradation of how many episodes a season we get is depressing. We've gone from 10-13 for a cable show, down to 6-8. It sucks for a lot of shows. And lot of it is to grab big name talent who don't want to commit to the grind of a show schedule, even a 10-13 one. I am currently going through ST Prodigy, and it has a 20 episode season (side note, go watch Prodigy, its good Trek). But 10-13 is no longer viable for binging. Which, considering how many are dropping the binge release, who the **** cares about binging. Hell, they've all forgotten that complete series do better in the long run than those cancelled "early".

 

[flickchick85]

I miss nice long seasons. I am not one to say that there is one model to fit all shows, but the gradual degradation of how many episodes a season we get is depressing. We've gone from 10-13 for a cable show, down to 6-8. It sucks for a lot of shows. And lot of it is to grab big name talent who don't want to commit to the grind of a show schedule, even a 10-13 one. I am currently going through ST Prodigy, and it has a 20 episode season (side note, go watch Prodigy, its good Trek). But 10-13 is no longer viable for binging. Which, considering how many are dropping the binge release, who the **** cares about binging. Hell, they've all forgotten that complete series do better in the long run than those cancelled "early".

The medium is gradually shifting back to the ad-based cable model of yesteryear - with various services folding and combining and whatnot - just over streaming. So give it a decade (probably less), and that longer format will probably be back too lol.

 

[Sithborg]

The medium is gradually shifting back to the ad-based cable model of yesteryear - with various services folding and combining and whatnot - just over streaming. So give it a decade (probably less), and that longer format will probably be back too lol.

I don't think it quite changes the problems of budget and talent. Like, I am fine with cheap shows. I do love my Vancouver regulars. And at times, if feels as if I could get around Vancouver with all the cheap sci fi I've watched. But they want to chase the big numbers that prestige stuff gets. Everyone wants to be HBO.

Granted, this is from someone who has had a ton of cheaper, lesser shows get cancelled pretty much every year, so I may be a bit cynical.

 

[Weather Witch]

Well, obviously not including Andor… but even Loki has some bad episode placement pacing.

I wouldn't say Andor is exempt from this either. It has four stories cut into three parts each. To say that those episodes end on a cliffhanger would be generous. A lot of them just randomly stop and make you wait for next week.

 

[Bobber]

You are confusing "filler" with episodic television. Shows like Buffy, Person of Interest, Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica, and yes the Mando, were episodic television, based around one off adventures, with season long arcs, that aren't important to the plot in a week by week basis.

What you wanted happened with s3 and most people hated it.

You mean the season that had an entire episode about a space eagle kidnapping a boy? Or Jack Black and Lizzo? I have nothing against episodic tv, but I do when it's done as poorly as it is in a lot of Mando episodes.

I do not understand why people think all TV is suppose to be just mini-series or extended films.

Imagine how butchered the Sopranos, Breaking Bad, and Mad Men would be with this philosophy. It's nuts.

Sopranos, Breaking Bad and Mad Men are neither extended films, nor episodic tv. They were expertly crafted serial television, that never let the ball drop on always telling you something about theme, character, or the season's story, whatever they were doing in an episode.

I absolutely hate this feeling of extended films that tv has adopted, exactly because we will never reach the heights of Sopranos, Wire, Breaking Bad doing that type of thing. So if you're not even going to really try to be a series, you would be better off making it into a film.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You mean the season that had an entire episode about a space eagle kidnapping a boy? Or Jack Black and Lizzo? I have nothing against episodic tv, but I do when it's done as poorly as it is in a lot of Mando episodes.

Sopranos, Breaking Bad and Mad Men are neither extended films, nor episodic tv. They were expertly crafted serial television, that never let the ball drop on always telling you something about theme, character, or the season's story, whatever they were doing in an episode.

I absolutely hate this feeling of extended films that tv has adopted, exactly because we will never reach the heights of Sopranos, Wire, Breaking Bad doing that type of thing. So if you're not even going to really try to be a series, you would be better off making it into a film.

I separated these to emphasize what you just wrote.

You wrote, "always telling you something about theme, character, or the season's story".

Well, let's look at the two episodes of Mando mentioned.

Eagle episode: Has Mando and Bo growing closer to the cult, while explaining a lot of Bo's internal issues with her placement in the Mando empire.

Jack Black and Lizzo episode: Another Bo heavy character with, that literally ends with the sword fight for Bo to claim the dark saber.

Now explain how that has nothing to do with the themes, characterz, and season's story for that show. How it doesn't directly tie into it, when the finale is reclaiming Mandalore, with Bo as queen and the two Mando factions coming together?

 

[Sian]

I just realized what tonight's episode was. It was Rey/Kylo fanfic.

They killed THAT with TROS.

 

[Sithborg]

They killed THAT with TROS.

Reylos never die. You can't kill shippers.

 

[Sian]

No, but you can make their lives a misery...speaking from experience.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

No, but you can make their lives a misery...speaking from experience.

If people want to be into the romantic entanglements of awful characters, they should expect their hopes to be crushed. Did people think the mass murderer was really going to get out the ST alive?

 

[Drizzle]

If people want to be into the romantic entanglements of awful characters, they should expect their hopes to be crushed. Did people think the mass murderer was really going to get out the ST alive?

 

[Sian]

If people want to be into the romantic entanglements of awful characters, they should expect their hopes to be crushed. Did people think the mass murderer was really going to get out the ST alive?

We believed Star Wars was a fairytale - with a happy ending.

Anyone seen Once Upon A time? Damsel?

Characters that did far worse than Kylo Ren. And got to survive.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

We believed Star Wars was a fairytale - with a happy ending.

Anyone seen Once Upon A time? Damsel?

Characters that did far worse than Kylo Ren. And got to survive.

Yeah. The happy ending is the villain dying. Though Star Wars is not a fairy tale. It's sci-fi fantasy, by way of Greek myth, Japanese cinema, and western stylings.

Kylo helped murder millions of people. Millions.

 

[Sian]

Lucas called it a fairytale. But there again, he never would have made the last Skywalker a villain. And given the last three chapters of the Skywalker saga to the descendant of their ancient enemy.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Lucas called it a fairytale. But there again, he never would have made the last Skywalker a villain. And given the last three chapters of the Skywalker saga to the descendant of their ancient enemy.

I'm curious. Why do you care about Rey's origins? Is her actions not what is important?

Two other things, because I'm a tiny bit of a Star Wars nerd.

One, Lucas heavily implied that Sidious helped create Anakin.

Second, the oldest Skywalker on record is Shmi, who was not a Jedi nor did she do battle with either the Sith nor Sheev. So, no. No "ancient enemy". Unless you think 30 years qualifies as ancient. Remember, him and Anakin were best buds for decades. Longer then he hung with old Ben.

Unless you mean to the Jedi. In which case, your own argument applies to the Last Jedi, aka Rey SKYWALKER.

 

[Sian]

I....think we've wandered off topic here now.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I....think we've wandered off topic here now.

Hey, I made the thread. I'm good. I'm ready for you to refute my points.

 

[Sithborg]

Lucas called it a fairytale. But there again, he never would have made the last Skywalker a villain. And given the last three chapters of the Skywalker saga to the descendant of their ancient enemy.

Lucas is also a fan of Dark Empire, which, uhh, you know. Caving into online pressure to redeem Kylo just ruined his arc. And really, killing redeemed villains like Vader and Kylo saves you from some tricky situations in sequels. Because let me tell you, the few characters who have been redeemed after a fairly murderous fall the Dark Side, its kind of weird to see them around.

As for Reylo, I don't ship it, but I don't inherently care if someone does. Frankly, the dynamics there are a lot less toxic and... icky than a lot of what I have seen in perusal of fanfiction.

As for Darth Exhibitionis, I do find him talking about being thrown away by a master, and that he specifically is looking for an acolyte. So, he is currently not the Sith Apprentice. Sounds like both a failed Jedi and Sith. And going back to his line about looking for an Acolyte, yes, I know, show name and that is all that it could be. But, he is looking for an acolyte, not an apprentice. Not too sure he is going to try to bump off the Sith Master.

 

[Sian]

Darth Exhibitionis....now that I like! Even better than a comment on another forum describing Kylo Ren as Darth Topless!

You know...Kylo redeemed AND alive might have been very interesting, it could have made for some fascinating storytelling, but at the end of the day, DLF wanted him to die an unredeemed bad guy, which Adam Driver confirmed. That is why they had him kill Han Solo, who was super popular. They wanted him to be hated.

It was Rian Johnson who changed the tune, so to speak. I still honestly can't understand why Disney wanted to end the Skywalkers in such a depressing fashion....if they wanted a female protagonist why not make Rey a Skywalker by blood? If they wanted to forge ahead with new characters, why not set the sequels years into the future, and only mention the Skywalker Saga as a reference to history?

It's sad for those who loved the films for the Skywalkers, like I did. I have to say I haven't watched any of the previous films since. I know how that family ends. And it isn't pretty.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Darth Exhibitionis....now that I like! Even better than a comment on another forum describing Kylo Ren as Darth Topless!

You know...Kylo redeemed AND alive might have been very interesting, it could have made for some fascinating storytelling, but at the end of the day, DLF wanted him to die an unredeemed bad guy, which Adam Driver confirmed. That is why they had him kill Han Solo, who was super popular. They wanted him to be hated.

It was Rian Johnson who changed the tune, so to speak. I still honestly can't understand why Disney wanted to end the Skywalkers in such a depressing fashion....if they wanted a female protagonist why not make Rey a Skywalker by blood? If they wanted to forge ahead with new characters, why not set the sequels years into the future, and only mention the Skywalker Saga as a reference to history?

It's sad for those who loved the films for the Skywalkers, like I did. I have to say I haven't watched any of the previous films since. I know how that family ends. And it isn't pretty.

Are you asking why Disney likes money? Bringing back the OG was the point of the project.

The Skywalker legacy lives on in Rey. She didn't need the blood to be a Skywalker. She embodies their spirit. Far better then Kylo. Which was/is the point. Blood doesn't make you anything. Your actions do.