The All New, All Star Batman & Robin Thread!

And what you fail to realize is that Miller has always stayed consistent with his characterization of Batman.He never betrays that.

Those that argue that the Batman he wrote in YO and DKR would never act this way are just not paying attention.The stuff is there in those books.Miller is just putting a spotlight and drawing attention to certain things in this book.

Perfect example:Batman laughing like a maniac as he drops down on thugs.he clearly does this in YO and DKR.Only difference is he does it a lot more here..

This is irrelevant...but I'm surprised you finally put an avy up. :oldrazz:

***

Now, what isn't irrelevant...is that it is clear that if you are looking for the iconic Batman, All-Star isn't the way to go. While I may not like it (I haven't read since like issue 5 or w/e but my bro has the issues and I will get around to it) it is clear that this isn't supposed to be the iconic Batman. DC just advertised it way incorrectly prior to its start by making us all think that.

If you don't like how All-Star Bats is...then drop the title. There are a few things I think I can stomach...so I might just finally pick it up. After all, cannot be any worse than Morrison's Batman right now.
 
That's flat out wrong. In DKR, yes Batman laughed like a maniac as he attacked thugs, but in YO there was no evidence of this. The only thing he does as he drops down on thugs is growls. He says something to the effect "I give them a growl I brought straight from Africa"


Uhm,no.Your referring to the first time Bruce appears in costume(page 31 chapter 2).Check out Flass's account of the cocaine delivery when Bats' drops in on on page 35 of the same chapter.He clearly states "the bullet passed through it and the thing started laughing".

In YO Batman isn't shown to enjoy hurting people, he only views it as a means to an end, he's a man on a mission. We don't get long monologues about how he enjoys snapping arms or hearing screams of criminals. Batman in YO is much more "grounded" or at least as "grounded" as Batman can be. He even admits that he can't do all of this alone and seeks out the help of Jim Gordon, and Harvey Dent. He's willing to trust others.

Batman in TDK and ASBR is a fanatic who enjoys causing pain to others, sees no problem with stealing a child and making him eat rats, or blowing up cop cars (and probably cops), that weren't directly attacking him.

Miller has changed his characterization of Batman. By and large, most of his stories have Batman as the same character, but to say that the Batman in YO is similar to the Batman in DKR or ASBR is ridiculous. Actually, YO feels like it's almost written by a different writer, because Miller changed the characterization so dramatically form DKR. If it wasn't for making Selina a hooker, I wouldn't have thought it written by him at all.

Again, just because Miller didn't write as many lengthy monologues about how much he enjoyed inflicting pain doesn't mean that he didn't.Miller certainly had him describe that stuff in DKR.Do you think for one minute that he doesn't consider his Bruce in YO to be the same as DKR?Also, consider what he told Skeevers - "you can't kill me or hurt me , but I feel pain. Sometimes I share it with someone like you." That's a pretty revealing statement. Again, Miller's characterization has always been consistent-he just chooses to focus or highlight certain aspects or character traits when working on a particular story.
 
This is irrelevant...but I'm surprised you finally put an avy up. :oldrazz:

***

Now, what isn't irrelevant...is that it is clear that if you are looking for the iconic Batman, All-Star isn't the way to go. While I may not like it (I haven't read since like issue 5 or w/e but my bro has the issues and I will get around to it) it is clear that this isn't supposed to be the iconic Batman. DC just advertised it way incorrectly prior to its start by making us all think that.

If you don't like how All-Star Bats is...then drop the title. There are a few things I think I can stomach...so I might just finally pick it up. After all, cannot be any worse than Morrison's Batman right now.

Trusty.Good to see ya buddy.You really should read the rest of the issues.9 will have you laughing out loud.:cwink:
 
Trusty.Good to see ya buddy.You really should read the rest of the issues.9 will have you laughing out loud.:cwink:

Yeah, it's got a great mix of crazy and drama--going from an all-yellow Batman drinkin' lemonade and completely s**ting on Hal to Batman realizing he's been a collosal dick and giving Dick time to grieve.
 
Actually, YO feels like it's almost written by a different writer, because Miller changed the characterization so dramatically form DKR.

Miller explained that in Amazing Heroes #102. He seems different in Batman: Year One because he was very young and inexperienced. But as silentflute points out, it's certainly the same person.
amazing_heroes102.jpg

"The 55-year-old Batman of Dark Knight is very different from the 25-year-old Batman of 'Batman: Year One.'" Miller explains. "He's very young, very enthusiastic. He may be Batman at his most joyful. He's a young man. He's also a Batman who makes a lot of mistakes. He's a young man who charges out thinking he can change the world on his own. He learns that he can't. He finds out that the abilities of one man are limited, even an extraordinary man like him. No matter how skilled you are, if the numbers are against you, you need a psychological advantage, which is what the bat costume gives him. Even as he learns the bat-symbolism to scare people, he finds himself very quickly outnumbered."

In Wizard #162, Jim Lee and Dan DiDio explained about Batman in All-Star Batman & Robin: "It's Batman in his prime!" Lee says excitedly. "Batman is more of an S.O.B. than in Batman: Year One. I think he's tougher; more of a force of nature. Don't stand in his way because nothing is going to stop him." "Batman has also never experienced the lose of a partner (as Batman in Dark Knight Returns had)," DiDio adds. "He's in the process of training someone to stand by his side while he perfects his craft."

Miller himself explained about Batman in All-Star Batman & Robin to Newarama:
“Anything I come up with about any of these characters is DKU,” Miller said. “DC winds up adopting just about all of it, anyway.." In his Dark Knight work, Miller has given readers a glimpse into the twilight years of Batman’s career. In Batman: Year One, he’s shared the beginning of the Batman saga. So where does All-Star Batman fall in his Batman time-table? “Year Three. Bats is feeling his oats—very young, maybe acting a little crazy, but he knows exactly what he's doing. He's just a bit sloppier about doing it than he's going to eventually get.” - Frank Miller.
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27218
"This is Dick Grayson's initiation and he's dealing with a very stern teacher. Batman is a hard teacher - unforgiving. Brutal." - Frank Miller.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=4436
"He is a dick. He dresses up like a bat, and throws people through windows nightly. His only human contact is with a cranky butler. Now he’s got a twelve year old boy on his hands, and he’s trying to play daddy, and it ain’t going to work. Of course he’s a dick." - Frank Miller.

"He explains it to Alfred in the story, saying, “I’m a young man, but I won’t always be young, and the mission has to continue.” Robin is his apprentice. He's training his replacement. That's the life he intends for Robin. Of course Alfred's reaction is, "I'm dyspeptic!" and is horrified that Bruce would do such a thing, and even, if he did something like that, admit it out loud. Alfred already has to deal with this nutcase as a boss, and now he has to worry about a kid as well. Batman had been watching Dick Grayson because he was the most talented kid he'd seen yet. I felt that somebody finally had to explain why he would bring a kid into his world. Bruce was going to wait, as he puts it, “Until the kid was old enough to shave.” He was planning on taking him under his wing in maybe another six years, but instead, he has to do it when the kid is still too young for the job. It was the murder of Dick Grayson's parents that forced his hand. There's always banter back and forth, where Robin thinks that a lot of the stuff Batman does is old fashioned and weird.

I love the "Boy Wonder" line, before he was turned into the Teen Wonder, and almost a "Grim Robin." But I just love the idea of a young Robin. That's why I created Carrie Kelley in Dark Knight - I just loved the contrast between this stocky, tough, dark adult, and a colorful little pixie running around.

Also – if you're older than 12, are you going to come up with that costume? Do you think Bruce would? Robin creates "Robin," essentially. Bruce hadn't thought this thing through enough, given that he was somewhat "forced" to take Robin in before he – both Bruce, and Dick – were ready. Handling a kid? That's kind of outside his purview – somewhere outside of what he trained himself for. So he's struggling with the whole thing."
http://classic.newsarama.com/dcnew/Batman/AllStar/MillerBatmanRobin.html

In Comics Interview #31, Miller explained about Batman in Batman: Dark Knight Returns:
4cab1ga7.jpg

"During the ten years that he isn't Batman that precede this series (after Jason Todd's death), he's a dead man," explains Miller. "Bruce Wayne goes through the motions but there's no one home. In the beginning of the series in fact, Bruce refers to Batman as "him." During the ten years that he hasn't been Batman he's gotten into racing cars. But he was born to be Batman, and whatever Bruce Wayne might have been is completely irrelevant. Bruce Wayne is Batman's host body. Bruce Wayne died when his parents go blown away. He really loves fighting crime. He's fighting what is in his mind a holy war. In my series I put forth the idea that he was always going to be Batman, that his parents murder was as inevitable as him putting the costume on. In fact, I have an incident earlier in his life that foreshadows what's going to happen to him (when he falls down into the cave as a child and meets the bats). Fate.

Batman's methods can't be nice. Much of what he does to criminals is staged like a horror movie. He's the hero who acts like a villain - the epitome of the Dionysian hero, just as Superman - the Appollonian hero. In Christian terms, Batman commits evil to fight evil. And the whole problem with Batman is that he makes no compromises along the way. When he comes out of retirement he acts exactly as he did before. Except he's a bit less patient now because he's only got a certain amount of time left. The central conflict is the world versus Batman.

I stress that Superman and Batman are enemies, and that Superman and Batman have been enemies for decades. They've never liked each other. Batman has tremendous contempt for Superman because he's such a "good boy," because he takes orders, from the President, among other people. Superman is something of a federal agent. And Superman, frankly, is scared of Batman. Because Batman represents to a certain extent, his own dark side. Which Superman doesn't want to look at. They imply completely different points of view. Superman implies a benevolent world - Batman implies a malevolent world. I cannot see two personalities like that getting along, acting friendly.

Originally, my feeling was much like many other people's - I had always thought that Robin was a real pain-in-the-ass, but I now realize what a brilliant creation it was, because it really does give a human context to Batman's character. If Batman is done properly, he's such a powerhouse that he needs a restraining figure - and just a human being to be with him, especially a brightly-colored child, as perverse an idea as it is that a grown man would drag a child into the bullets!"

Miller explained to Comic Book Resources about Batman in DK2:
"In the first Dark Knight, Bruce was a very self destructive, tortured man," explains Miller. "He was endlessly angry. When this story begins, three years have passed and he looks younger than he did in the first Dark Knight. He is strangely happy and at peace. He is a much more powerful figure and he has been tested. Every hero has to be tested, that's how they're defined. Batman's trained all his troops underground and is finally reemerging to bring back the glory boys to save the day."
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=192
http://archive.comicdom.gr/interviews.php?id=17&lang=en
http://www.4thletter.net/2009/04/sons-of-dkr-frank-miller-x-tcj/

So in each Miller Batman series we see Batman change somewhat like an actual person would, but he still always remains consistent as well. It's certainly the same person. Each series are chapters into his life.
 
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So in each Miller Batman series we see Batman change somewhat like an actual person would, but he still always remains consistent as well. It's certainly the same person. Each series are chapters into his life.

Well said Man-Bat.Good to see someone digging up those old fanzines too.Brings back memories.:yay:
 
I'm glad they show Batman was basically the same S.O.B. but basically mature in his own way this makes me like the Frank Miller Dark Knight Univer a whole lot more
 
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I'm glad they show superman was basically the same S.O.B. but basically mature in his own way this makes me like the Frank Miller Dark Knight Univer a whole lot more

Oh, don't you mean Batman. Batman is the same "S.O.B.," Superman is the flag saluting "good boy."
 
I'm glad they show Batman was basically the same S.O.B. but basically mature in his own way this makes me like the Frank Miller Dark Knight Univer a whole lot more

I agree. I hope that someday he fills in the gaps so we can see some of the events that have been alluded to in later books, like Bruce firing Dick and Miller's version of Jason's death. (I just wish that Dick had named the Batmobile, although it's also kind of fitting that DKR Batman would remember things more fondly than they actually happened in All-Star).

I also think that there's a great Frank Miller Green Arrow story that's out there waiting to be written. It could cover his history with Clark, how he lost the arm, and where he went and how he "kept busy" when was in exile. I'd buy that story in a heartbeat. Two copies.
 
(I just wish that Dick had named the Batmobile, although it's also kind of fitting that DKR Batman would remember things more fondly than they actually happened in All-Star).

Funny I was thinking about that for the longest time.And you're right it does make perfect sense.Bruce would want to rememeber things that way.When he says that the Batmobile is the kind of name a kid would come up with he's also talking about himself.

I also think that there's a great Frank Miller Green Arrow story that's out there waiting to be written. It could cover his history with Clark, how he lost the arm, and where he went and how he "kept busy" when was in exile. I'd buy that story in a heartbeat. Two copies.

Oh hell yeah.Amen.
 
has miller mentioned anything about green arrow showing up in this?
 
Just finished reading the first volume and I liked it, but I'm glad it's not canon.

It's a like a version of Batman on steroids, laughing like a crazy maniac while wasting corrupt cops. I see now why a lot of people have been saying Miller has lost it.
 
canon is too restricting. F Canon!


on another note
"A storms coming. Cool."
 
Clown, weren't you one of the ones that really disliked All Star?
 
This is irrelevant...but I'm surprised you finally put an avy up. :oldrazz:

***

Now, what isn't irrelevant...is that it is clear that if you are looking for the iconic Batman, All-Star isn't the way to go. While I may not like it (I haven't read since like issue 5 or w/e but my bro has the issues and I will get around to it) it is clear that this isn't supposed to be the iconic Batman. DC just advertised it way incorrectly prior to its start by making us all think that.

If you don't like how All-Star Bats is...then drop the title. There are a few things I think I can stomach...so I might just finally pick it up. After all, cannot be any worse than Morrison's Batman right now.

Here's the thing about the whole "iconic" fiasco--I can't blame Miller, because when he talked about it, he clearly said it was his continued interpetation of the character. It was DC who said that it was an "iconic" interpetation.

I do agree on dropping the title if you don't like it. Like the saying goes, "wish (or in this case b***h) in one hand and s**t in the other and see which one fills up first." The only real weapon you have against books you consider to be crap is your wallet. I disagree on Morrison, but that's a different subject altogether.

I also think that there's a great Frank Miller Green Arrow story that's out there waiting to be written. It could cover his history with Clark, how he lost the arm, and where he went and how he "kept busy" when was in exile. I'd buy that story in a heartbeat. Two copies.

I would also love to see a Question book and, oddly enough, a Captain Marvel book. Those two were some of the best parts of DKSA, I think.

has miller mentioned anything about green arrow showing up in this?

GA was shown in Jim Lee's sketchbook about All-Star in a Wizard magazine article a long time back. Not sure if it means he'll be in there, though.

Would be fun--espicially to see his reaction to Black Canary, who seems to be more interested in Batman at the moment. :o
 
nope I love All-Star. I have always praised it. Though I totally know why people hate it.
 
According to Diamond Comics, All-Star Batman and Robin # 10 will not be released tomorrow.
 
Yeah, I saw that DC's website moved the date from tommorow to... well, two weeks from tommorow.

:csad:
 
Animation and comic book writers are the only people I know that can actually have a deadline for their work, not meet it, and not get punished for it.
 

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