The All New, All Star Batman & Robin Thread!

[Joker]

No surprise that Catwoman and Batman once f**ked in a dingy sewer, where Batman lived where eating rats. Also no surprise that Black Canary burned a warehouse full of thugs to death. Or that Gordons wife is the town drunk.

Also, I think that may have been the same arcade in the Batgirl scene that later shows up in DKR.

 

[Motown Marvel]

That's like real life. It is clear that Miller is intent on bringing us a character driven story. Miller is interested in examining the psychology of the various characters and how they relate to each other. And that's what I really like.

but there should be a main story flowing throughout this thing, a quality one. and theres not. its just people popping up here and there then dropping out and nothing really has any impact on anything because theres no story. like, gordons wife suddenly pops up out of nowhere and she's a drunk and she's hurt and im expected to care why? or some version of the joker pops up and he has stupid tattoos and he kills someone and it matters why? it had nothing to do with anything. there was an entire issue of batman hating on GL and the JLA, but they have nothing to do with anything, because theres no story for it to impact which just makes it all seem ponitless.

It's not catered to everyone's taste. That doesn't make it "bad," just not for you. There are enough Batman titles out there to satisfy any readers taste.

well, in my opinion its bad. in yours its not. and thats fine.

I have to disagree. Lee's art is strong and detailed throughout.

see, i think thats a weak drawing, particularly by lee standards.

I really like the Quitely cover too and I'd like to see him do more covers, but I wouldn't want him to draw everything because I wouldn't want to see Lee replaced.

well, i was being dramatic saying i want quitley to draw everything. but if this title continues, i wouldnt mind seeing someone other than lee draw.

 

[kguillou]

Is it just me or has Miller been very quiet since this series launched? Has he done any interviews recently or anything? You'd think with all the criticism this series gets he'd give us some insight as to what he's doing and planning with it.

 

[squeekness]

It was completely moving and heartfelt. Miller is giving us a touching character study. My favorite in issue 10 is the scene with Batman and Catwoman. Miller shows the tender compassionate side of Batman in this scene as Batman rushes to the side of Catwoman. Batman thinks how he wants to say to her words that he has never said to anyone. This issue is also a character study on Gordon. Miller delves deeply into Gordon’s soul and allows the reader a unfiltered look into Jim’s thoughts, feelings, fears and desires as his wife is in the emergency room suffering a head contusion and his daughter is arrested and charged with assault, battery, destruction of public property and inciting a riot. This is for those of us who want more from our comics than just fistfights and manufactured marketing gimmicks like "R.I.P." DC usually makes those giant manufactured stunts. One huge dumb event after the other. This series is a refreshing change from that.

If it's an entertaining read than it's not a s#!tty trainwreck. Comic books are entertainment after all.

Lee’s art in this issue (and Scott Williams inks and Alex Sinclair's coloring) is fantastic as usual.

I agree that it was another great issue, but I disagree about the covers. I like the Lee cover better.

Is it just me or has Miller been very quiet since this series launched? Has he done any interviews recently or anything? You'd think with all the criticism this series gets he'd give us some insight as to what he's doing and planning with it.

Prolly too busy making movies now. The Spirit looks great.

 

[etrigan69]

Is it just me or has Miller been very quiet since this series launched? Has he done any interviews recently or anything? You'd think with all the criticism this series gets he'd give us some insight as to what he's doing and planning with it.

Miller does what he wants and doesn't really care about who likes it. Although there seems to be a lot of people here on the board that despise it, it is really just a few that are extremely vocal about it.

The book is doing fine. It's Miller's take on it. Some people don't like Miller's style so they wont like it. Why they bother reading it is beyond me. I don't ingest things I don't like just so i can tell people "I don't like it." Hell, I don't buy any other comics because I don't like them anymore.

DC and Marvel have all gone corporate and they are just running a formula that consists of crossovers, variants and fake shortages. Originality in that mess is pretty goddamn rare.......

 

[theMan-Bat]

but there should be a main story flowing throughout this thing, a quality one. and theres not. its just people popping up here and there then dropping out and nothing really has any impact on anything because theres no story.

There certainly is a story. In the past issues the gradual development is the result of Miller thoroughly exploring the ramifications of inviting a child into Batman’s life for the first time. The scope of this series is huge and only so much can fit into each issue. This series involves a lot of characters.

like, gordons wife suddenly pops up out of nowhere and she's a drunk and she's hurt and im expected to care why?

It's a powerful moment. I don't see how you can not care about whats happening there. The amount of description that Miller layers into his narration engages all of the reader’s senses. I feel what the characters are feeling.

or some version of the joker pops up and he has stupid tattoos and he kills someone and it matters why? it had nothing to do with anything.

That was a little tease. It had to do with establishing that the Joker is anything but a prankster -- he's a purely evil figure. The tattoo didn't bother me. I guarantee we will be seeing more of the Joker. Yes, this book is about Robin's origin and beginnings, but not at the expense of ignoring the rest of Batman's cast and the greatest villain in the history of comics. I'm glad Miller doesn't soften Joker any. Readers were surprised that the Joker doesn't smile during this appearance. And that he's anything but a prankster - he's a purely evil figure. Not the caricature you see that acts like a buffoon - that's not the way Bill Finger and Bob Kane created the Joker. He was more serious when they created him and he didn't always laugh. And when he smiled it wasn't a happy smile, it was a ghastly grin.

there was an entire issue of batman hating on GL and the JLA, but they have nothing to do with anything, because theres no story for it to impact which just makes it all seem ponitless.

Well, Green Lantern was hating on Batman just as much! The point of that was to let the characters have a debate on crimefighting methods to explain how Batman stands out from the superheroes. To explore the characters differences. It allows readers to see how they interact with EACH OTHER, rather than just fighting villains. In may ways this is what the old 1960s Justice League was missing and what Keith Giffen introduced in his Justice League run in 1987. The conflict between Batman and Green Lantern is interesting. I'm glad that Batman and Green Lantern got on each others nerves. The dialogue/the humor work together to create an entertaining read. I'm actually having fun reading each issue. Of course it impacted the story. How? Because the story of the first 9 issues was about updating Robin's origin for a contemporary audience and exploring the various characters reactions to Batman with this kid and examining the psychology of the various characters and how they relate to each other.

well, in my opinion its bad. in yours its not. and thats fine.

To each his own.

see, i think thats a weak drawing, particularly by lee standards.

I don't agree with that. That's not weak by any standards.

Well, i was being dramatic saying i want quitley to draw everything. but if this title continues, i wouldnt mind seeing someone other than lee draw.

I wouldn't want to see Lee replaced on this title.

 

[Motown Marvel]

There certainly is a story. In the past issues the gradual development is the result of Miller thoroughly exploring the ramifications of inviting a child into Batman’s life for the first time. The scope of this series is huge and only so much can fit into each issue. This series involves a lot of characters.

i havent seen many ramifications of robin being introduced in batmans life. nor has it been the central focus of the story, as there hasnt been any real central focus at all. and if this is the result of telling a story with huge scope, which includes useless characters and fractured focus, then the scope needs to be tightented.

It's a powerful moment. I don't see how you can not care about whats happening there. The amount of description that Miller layers into his narration engages all of the reader’s senses. I feel what the characters are feeling.

i didnt think it was powerful at all. yeah, obviously thats what miller was intending, but it didnt work with me. it was just another suddenly useless plot involving a useless character that has nothing to do with anything. why should i care about that?

That was a little tease. It had to do with establishing that the Joker is anything but a prankster -- he's a purely evil figure. The tattoo didn't bother me. I guarantee we will be seeing more of the Joker. Yes, this book is about Robin's origin and beginnings, but not at the expense of ignoring the rest of Batman's cast and the greatest villain in the history of comics. I'm glad Miller doesn't soften Joker any. Readers were surprised that the Joker doesn't smile during this appearance. And that he's anything but a prankster - he's a purely evil figure. Not the caricature you see that acts like a buffoon - that's not the way Bill Finger and Bob Kane created the Joker. He was more serious when they created him and he didn't always laugh. And when he smiled it wasn't a happy smile, it was a ghastly grin.

established him for what? he seems to have no role in the (non) story. ha has nothing to do with anything that has been going on in the book. which makes it useless.

Well, Green Lantern was hating on Batman just as much! The point of that was to let the characters have a debate on crimefighting methods to explain how Batman stands out from the superheroes. To explore the characters differences. It allows readers to see how they interact with EACH OTHER, rather than just fighting villains. In may ways this is what the old 1960s Justice League was missing and what Keith Giffen introduced in his Justice League run in 1987. The conflict between Batman and Green Lantern is interesting. I'm glad that Batman and Green Lantern got on each others nerves. The dialogue/the humor work together to create an entertaining read. I'm actually having fun reading each issue. Of course it impacted the story. How? Because the story of the first 9 issues was about updating Robin's origin for a contemporary audience and exploring the various characters reactions to Batman with this kid and examining the psychology of the various characters and how they relate to each other.

i understand the idea of discussing the differing methods of crimefighters between heroes. but it should have been done in a way that is was woven into the story at hand...but since there is no clear story at hand, it came off as poorly done.

To each his own.

indeed

I don't agree with that. That's not weak by any standards.

it just looks like lee went on auto pilot with this issue. probably to hit an already far past due deadline.

I wouldn't want to see Lee replaced on this title.

i'd let him finish out the arc. but if the title continues into a new arc, i would very much prefer someone else.

 

[Tvar10]

i just bought it today.....it definatly wasnt worth the wait

 

[theMan-Bat]

i havent seen many ramifications of robin being introduced in batmans life. nor has it been the central focus of the story, as there hasnt been any real central focus at all. and if this is the result of telling a story with huge scope, which includes useless characters and fractured focus, then the scope needs to be tightented.

The central focus of the story has been on Robin's origin (The death of his parents, his training, capturing the killer of his parents, creating his costume and identity, and grieving over his parents death.) and the ramifications of Robin being introduced into Batman's life. The Justice League meet because of Robin, Batman and Green Lantern meet because of Robin, and Robin is adding an important, humanizing element to Batman. Robin is actually making Batman somewhat grounded by giving him someone living to talk to, look after and care about. He forces Batman to retain some humanity.

i didnt think it was powerful at all. yeah, obviously thats what miller was intending, but it didnt work with me. it was just another suddenly useless plot involving a useless character that has nothing to do with anything. why should i care about that?

If you care about the Batman characters then you should care about what happens to them. That event had to do with Jim Gordon's life - a central character in Batman lore since Detective Comics #27, 1939.

established him for what? he seems to have no role in the (non) story. ha has nothing to do with anything that has been going on in the book. which makes it useless.

The Joker is woven into the story. The Joker has to do with Catwoman being beaten and almost killed (which is obvious, especially when she's struggling to say "It was Joker") which lead to Gordon giving Batman the note and Batman runing down to his first Batcave to help Selina. Showing the tender compassionate side of Batman we rarely see. A touching scene. I think anyone who loves Batman knows that those two were meant for each other.

i understand the idea of discussing the differing methods of crimefighters between heroes. but it should have been done in a way that is was woven into the story at hand...but since there is no clear story at hand, it came off as poorly done.

It is woven into the story. Superman sent Hal to talk sense into Batman and reason with him. And the meeting with Hal lead to Batman realizing he had been wrong, and taking Robin to his parents grave to let him grieve. Another great moving scene.

indeed

And we are both White Stripes fans so we do have some common ground.

it just looks like lee went on auto pilot with this issue. probably to hit an already far past due deadline.

The art looks very detailed. I love it, and I hated his Hush art.

i'd let him finish out the arc. but if the title continues into a new arc, i would very much prefer someone else.

I'm happy with Lee.

 

[CrimsonMist]

Actually, i think Lee should just get a different colorist. Perhaps that's why i'm not digging Lee's art...

 

[etrigan69]

For all you guys that are up in arms over Miller's Batman, how is the godawful **** that's going on in Batman R.I.P. sitting with you? Because compared to anything Miller has done with any of the characters, they are really ****ting on everything that Batman is....

P.S. I really think Lee is pushing himself beyond anything else he has done so far.

 

[kguillou]

I love Lee, but if they replaced him with someone else then maybe we could get more than 2 issues a year. Then again if they replaced him then it wouldnt be "All-Star" i guess.

 

[blksuperman2]

i just bought it today.....it definatly wasnt worth the wait

I agree. Little to nothing happened. Where was the backlash from Robin nearly killing GL. You'd think the League would have come knockin' down Bat's door or at least WW. She was looking for an excuse to deal w/ Bats. This issue seemed pointless to me.

 

[Motown Marvel]

The central focus of the story has been on Robin's origin (The death of his parents, his training, capturing the killer of his parents, creating his costume and identity, and grieving over his parents death.) and the ramifications of Robin being introduced into Batman's life. The Justice League meet because of Robin, Batman and Green Lantern meet because of Robin, and Robin is adding an important, humanizing element to Batman. Robin is actually making Batman somewhat grounded by giving him someone living to talk to, look after and care about. He forces Batman to retain some humanity.

If you care about the Batman characters then you should care about what happens to them. That event had to do with Jim Gordon's life - a central character in Batman lore since Detective Comics #27, 1939.

The Joker is woven into the story. The Joker has to do with Catwoman being beaten and almost killed (which is obvious, especially when she's struggling to say "It was Joker") which lead to Gordon giving Batman the note and Batman runing down to his first Batcave to help Selina. Showing the tender compassionate side of Batman we rarely see. A touching scene. I think anyone who loves Batman knows that those two were meant for each other.


It is woven into the story. Superman sent Hal to talk sense into Batman and reason with him. And the meeting with Hal lead to Batman realizing he had been wrong, and taking Robin to his parents grave to let him grieve. Another great moving scene.


And we are both White Stripes fans so we do have some common ground.

The art looks very detailed. I love it, and I hated his Hush art.

I'm happy with Lee.

im not looking to get in too detailed of a conversation about all this, so let me just say: im glad you find worthwhile value in the series. but the things that are working for you apparently arent working for me. i think the focus, if any, is far to fractured which makes it seem void of any central plot or theme. and it'd seem that SO MUCH time and effort is being wasted on unecessary tangents and characters that fill the pages. the only value i've found in this book is its laughable ridiculousness, which i find entertaining in a trainwreck sort of way.

 

[Tvar10]

i was really up on this series then after this 4 month wait i found it hard to get back into, i had a hard time reading this issue, it was kind of boring to me

 

[K.B.]

I agree with Motown Marvel 100% on issue 10.

 

[ironman29758]

The Joker is woven into the story. The Joker has to do with Catwoman being beaten and almost killed (which is obvious, especially when she's struggling to say "It was Joker") which lead to Gordon giving Batman the note and Batman runing down to his first Batcave to help Selina. Showing the tender compassionate side of Batman we rarely see. A touching scene. I think anyone who loves Batman knows that those two were meant for each other.

plus it was joker who hired the man to kill Robin's parents

 

[theMan-Bat]

plus it was joker who hired the man to kill Robin's parents

That's right!

 

[Dirt Like Me]

First of all, just to be clear: I love this book and it's my favorite of the Bat-titles running right now. Nobody writes Bats like Miller does. There were a few things I really liked about this issue, too. I liked seeing the DKR arcade, I liked Batgirl's realization that the people she was protecting aren't as right-minded as she is, and I really liked Gordon saying that he's not even supposed to know who Batman really is.

I agree with Man-Bat about Batman's monologue while he was holding Catwoman, too. For some reason, I found the line about how small she is to be pretty poignant. It gave a vulnerability to Selina that really helps humanize her. And speaking of humanization, I think Bruce has actually really evolved throughout this title. Back when he was banging Canary on the docks, it took a smoker's kiss to make him even remember Selina; now he's showing real concern for her. I think that when it's all done with, the end of Issue #9 will have been the real turning point for the book. Like in the 40s, Dick will help ground Bruce and pull him back from the edge.

BUT, these goddamn delays...I think that the emotional impact of this issue was really blunted by the amount of time that has lapsed since #9. It would be tough to get wrapped up in a completely action-based story with these delays, but as Goddamn Batman becomes more about character and nuance I think it makes things even more difficult on the reader.

I won't hold my breath on Jim Lee getting his stuff together, so I guess I'll just have to plan on rereading the entire series each a time issue comes out. Or something like that.

 

[kguillou]

I never understood how comic companies could allow writers and artists to get away with delays and stuff. When you are working for a company you have obligations that have to be met, if you don't meet those obligations then you get fired, simple and plain. Don't miller and lee have contracts that obligate them to do a certain amount of work each year or something? If your work gets delayed one month, fine, whatever, but 2-3 issues a year?? How is DC allowing this? Especially when its a best seller?

 

[SpideyInATree]

I am also really digging the Frank Quitely variant cover for # 10. I wish they could get this book on a regular monthly schedule and there weren't all those delays. This would be the best Batman book on the stands at this point. Morrisons Batman is pretty cool but this beats it. I love the Goddamn Batman and I'm pretty sure the Goddamn Batman loves me...umm...yeah. But anyway...digging this series more and more with each issue. Hopefully we get a nice climax to all of this.

 

[squeekness]

When is the next ish coming out? Seems like it's been soooo long.

 

[ironman29758]

some said nov 26-29

 

[squeekness]

Nope. I didn't see it on the Diamond list for that week.

 

[CrimsonMist]

Nope. I didn't see it on the Diamond list for that week.

DC's site said it was coming out in December, i think. But now, i can't find it at all.