The All Things Flash Thread. - Part 2

Yep. Once Justice League came out and belly flopped, they should had taken a step back, realised that chasing the Marvel strategy was the wrong way to go, and gone for solo projects just like The Batman for everyone. New Superman, carry on Gadot’s WW, carry on Momoa’s Aquaman, carry on Shazam, new Flash, new Lantern… etc. All unconnected.

When The Batman makes a billion, and The Flash bombs, they’ll hopefully finally realise where they’ve been going wrong.

Their decisions the last 10+ years leave a lot of questions.
Dont know what their deal is, when they panicked and gave Snyder the okay to build a cinematic universe, they should have been stopped...hell when they gave snyder MOS someone should have slapped their fingers going "NO".

This alleged new main universe is another one of those things where it feels like they just want to stand next to marvel, no matter what it costs.
And i dont get why.
I dont understand this "we need to compete with marvel" mindset at this stage.

Especially when they plan to do it with Batgirl and Supergirl at the front.
Dont get me wrong, i love the characters...but the supergirl tv show didnt set the world on fire, Batwoman barely holds on...hell, they initially didnt wanted Batgirl in Theaters.

I have such a hard time believing this rumors because i dont see where WB would take the confidence in something like this.
As bad as i think Snyders stuff is, even that with Batman and Superman front and center made the Money.
These characters are really this big, that a medicore director can bull**** them and still make the a ton of money.

Who cares what the Snyder Crew thinks? Snyder's vision did not catch on. Just because a bunch of people pretend he is some genius on Twitter doesn't change that. The characters he built up that worked (mainly WW and AQ) have movies that are nothing like anything he makes and are way more popular. Time to cut the cord...the Snyder Bros can go watch his mediocre zombie film over and over and ignore how awfully edited it was.

Well, you can hardly ignore them sadly.
No matter where we go, they are around.
But yeah, doesnt really matter at this stage what they think or how much toxicity they spread, how often they get #restorethesnyderverse trending...its over.
The less is said about them, the better.
 
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This is so vague. This reads like he’s saying the movies will always be there to watch and enjoy and not a flat out debunking of the rumor.

Actually, it’s still very possible that by the end of the film Flash still remembers the events of the old DCEU. So what he’s saying may actually pertain to the narrative. We’ll see.
 
I swear this Snyder nonsense will never end. Zack is happy over at Netflix, Ben would rather do anything other than Batman now. It's over.

Franchises get rebooted all the time. It wasn't working and it doesn't matter how they want to rewrite history. It. Is. Over.

This could be terrible yes, but it's happening so people need to get used to it. Watch the movie before making ridiculous judgements.
Exactly. And yet, the people upset don't seem to understand that this happened because Snyders version failed to satisfy the GA. They would know this if they'd get out of the Twitter echo chamber that they live in. I keep hearing "they had a perfectly good connected universe". No, they didn't. Man of Steel was mixed, BVS got negative reviews, and JL box office reflected that. Only Wonder Woman and Aquaman were stand outs from that era of DC. It's a classic example of a vocal minority that doesn't get they aren't the majority. a movie like BVS should have been far more successful than it was, and while they'd like to have you believe that it's because it wasn't "Snyders directors cut" that wasn't released in theaters as the cause, it's really just his vision is liked by a lot of people.

I'm also not saying it's a great idea for Keaton to be back full time, even though it'll be exciting to see him. But what's done is done, and it's time to move on. I'm still surprised people actually thought we'd have 3 Batmen full time in their own movies too. WB has made it pretty clear Pattinson is the future of the character.
 
Exactly. And yet, the people upset don't seem to understand that this happened because Snyders version failed to satisfy the GA. They would know this if they'd get out of the Twitter echo chamber that they live in. I keep hearing "they had a perfectly good connected universe". No, they didn't. Man of Steel was mixed, BVS got negative reviews, and JL box office reflected that. Only Wonder Woman and Aquaman were stand outs from that era of DC. It's a classic example of a vocal minority that doesn't get they aren't the majority. a movie like BVS should have been far more successful than it was, and while they'd like to have you believe that it's because it wasn't "Snyders directors cut" that wasn't released in theaters as the cause, it's really just his vision is liked by a lot of people.

I'm also not saying it's a great idea for Keaton to be back full time, even though it'll be exciting to see him. But what's done is done, and it's time to move on. I'm still surprised people actually thought we'd have 3 Batmen full time in their own movies too. WB has made it pretty clear Pattinson is the future of the character.
I can accept that Snyder's vision failed to resonate with the GA but do these rumoured plans really sound all that better to you? It sounds like CW on the big screen which is just awful.
 
I can accept that Snyder's vision failed to resonate with the GA but do these rumoured plans really sound all that better to you? It sounds like CW on the big screen which is just awful.
Not really. I mean, I want to take a wait and see approach, but I don't have much faith in this movie as it is. Like i said, I'm excited to see Keaton, but that's about it. Outside of The Batman, I don't think there's a comic book movie that even makes my top 5 most anticipated of 2022, let alone The Flash. It's actually why I said I wish WB would continue to focus on contained stories because it seems like with this movie, they're trying to set up another interconnected universe.
 
This is so vague. This reads like he’s saying the movies will always be there to watch and enjoy and not a flat out debunking of the rumor.

Actually, it’s still very possible that by the end of the film Flash still remembers the events of the old DCEU. So what he’s saying may actually pertain to the narrative. We’ll see.

I think that's exactly it. The films will always be there and needed to get to this point.

Though barely anyone outside the Snyder fandom remembers or cares about these films and there's no need to "reset" just ignore which has happened since WW/AM got their films
 
I can accept that Snyder's vision failed to resonate with the GA but do these rumoured plans really sound all that better to you? It sounds like CW on the big screen which is just awful.

Yes. The rumor has potential for the future and Snyder's ideas did not. That alone is better. Plus, it won't continue to donkey punch Superman which seemed to be Snyder's kink.
 
Correct me if im wrong, but wasnt it Snyders idea to kill Bruce and have the child take over as batman or some ****?
Dont know why the snyderbros are so upset about a Batgirl or that Afflecks Batman kicks the bucket when that was pretty much Snyders plan.
 
DC really shouldn't even bother with a connected universe. Just make good stand alone movies. Whichever stand alone movies stick, just do a movie version of Crisis on Infinite Earths bringing them together down the road if you can. Idk WB baffles me. I'm past the point of caring for a shared universe with DC.


I really enjoyed Snyderverse, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Shazam, etc. But Joker has no connection to anything and it was amazing and made about a billion dollars didn't it?
 
I can accept that Snyder's vision failed to resonate with the GA but do these rumoured plans really sound all that better to you? It sounds like CW on the big screen which is just awful.
I agree it does sound a bit like that :yuk: but I'm hoping WB/DC heard the complaints from those who felt so letdown by the CW Crisis, and will actually deliver on the potential that this movie has. Keaton's involvement is one of the things that gives me the most hope. Not just because I want to see him, but because I can't see he would have signed on unless he was as sure as he could be that the movie will deliver. He knows what a great legacy his interpretation is. He doesn't need to risk tarnishing that.
 
As a Snyder fan, Ive been ready to move on from Snyder for a while now. I own the Snyder Cut and I'm very happy with it and happy to see what other creatives will do with the JL going forward.

That said, I hope that this reboot is done tastefully and its not a super blatant "F YOU" to Snyder in how it cleans the palate. I think that would be unnecessary.

I hope so too, like, we can move on without shaming the past.

I like more of his movies than I dislike and I too am ready to move on. And I think it’s easy to do. Just make flicks that don’t explicitly rely on his canon. Which a bunch of the films have already done.

We’ll see how this goes though if it’s indeed true.

But we know full well there will be those dissecting the inconsistencies, the errors, asking where is so and so, what happened to this, or her, or why isn't this mentioned anymore!
A clean side step is needed.

Exactly. And yet, the people upset don't seem to understand that this happened because Snyders version failed to satisfy the GA. They would know this if they'd get out of the Twitter echo chamber that they live in. I keep hearing "they had a perfectly good connected universe". No, they didn't. Man of Steel was mixed, BVS got negative reviews, and JL box office reflected that. Only Wonder Woman and Aquaman were stand outs from that era of DC. It's a classic example of a vocal minority that doesn't get they aren't the majority. a movie like BVS should have been far more successful than it was, and while they'd like to have you believe that it's because it wasn't "Snyders directors cut" that wasn't released in theaters as the cause, it's really just his vision is liked by a lot of people.

I'm also not saying it's a great idea for Keaton to be back full time, even though it'll be exciting to see him. But what's done is done, and it's time to move on. I'm still surprised people actually thought we'd have 3 Batmen full time in their own movies too. WB has made it pretty clear Pattinson is the future of the character.

Good connected universe in terms of story telling or profits? End of the day, I could see how they ere all connected, I had no trouble believing the universe... I just wasn't interested in what they did to Superman and how they rushed out batman.

Keaton will be the leader of the next and laze stage of the DCEU, which is retcon and a cash grab before it ends and they start building Pattison's world. I recon we have about 5 years left of the DCEU, makes sense given ages, contracts etc

My hope is this - the timelines Barry crosses all merge into one, at the end of the movie.
creating this time line.
B89 being the first set of events. Then, in 2013, we have the appearance of Superman, however he does not snap Zod's neck, instead he and faora they are both locked up.

We have a proper MOS2 where it could be set 5-7 years after MOS, superman is this great hero everyone loves... Clark Kent is a quiet, unassuming reporter, no one knows who he is. At times he puts on the bumbling act to certain people, in certain situations, Superman saves people from tragedies, trains wrecks, fires, no super villains. We see a cool montage of the last 5-7 years.

We see brainiac as the villain for MOS2

Batman is an old, urban legend from the 80s/90s - but clark tracks him down - they have a friendship.

Lex Luthor, mad scientist at lex corp decided to create a clone, uses his DNA's and Faora's - creates Supergirl, Supergirl escapes her captives and is well, super girl. We have a couple of movies.

Batgirl is then introduced via the help of Bruce Wayne. We have a couple of movies.

WW1984 leads into the 3rd movie which retcons what happened when she meets bruce - it's Keaton Bruce, therefore, BvS, JL never happens for her. WW3 is set in 2000's she meets bruce etc they establish a team with clark and look for others (as a side story)

AM the same, the first two movies are fine, it's old man bruce, not bat fleck that tracks him down and the new JL spawns from there.

Shazam! also, is fine, it just gets retconned so BvS etc never happened.

Black Adam comes, it is what it is.

Then, the final movie Black Adam vs the Justice League where Black Adam is just misunderstood by the worlds leaders, it gets out of hand, the justice league step in to take over the fight and control... we see a cool fight scene when the rock writes a super hero love letter to himself and we see all of them losing to them, only for Black Adam to do a speech about team work and working together... and they realize black Adam was after the corruption... say in government, they all go together and fix it and boom, they all live happily ever after.

Then, a year later, we all focus on Reeves universe where we see reboots of the lot.
 
I think that's exactly it. The films will always be there and needed to get to this point.

Though barely anyone outside the Snyder fandom remembers or cares about these films and there's no need to "reset" just ignore which has happened since WW/AM got their films
To be frank I couldn’t care less what they do as long as the the movie is good but let’s be honest, I can kind of see the reason for doing this just for the sake of clarifying the future status of DCEU in case they want to try out the connectivity thing again and I don’t think they want to keep theatrical cut of JL canon, lol. Affleck isn’t coming back, and Cavil isn’t really worth keeping as he’s a mediocre actor who while he looks the part, he isn’t the bankable star some make him out to be. I think down the line there will be another Superman and Batman for the DCEU but for the moment they’re sticking with this.
 
Cavill wasn't cast as a bankable star, he was c-list at the time. He's more popular now than he was during his 3 dc films
That’s true, but what movie has been able to lead successfully since he has been cast as Superman? He isn’t RDJ here. General audiences don’t by in large care for his Superman and likely wouldn’t miss him if he was recast.
 
In terms of general audience I don't think I've ever really heard a strong opinion of him as Superman, like he's just there. He seems more beloved for The Witcher now.
 
Correct me if im wrong, but wasnt it Snyders idea to kill Bruce and have the child take over as batman or some ****?
Dont know why the snyderbros are so upset about a Batgirl or that Afflecks Batman kicks the bucket when that was pretty much Snyders plan.
I'm on record on not liking Snyder's plans for his sequels.

It's the pure lack of creativity in their rumoured plans that I find grating but I find it difficult to articulate further on, as I'll only be accused of not wanting an all female trinity.

If I thought they had a clear plan for the characters post Flash I'd feel differently, but I know WB too well at this point.
 
That’s true, but what movie has been able to lead successfully since he has been cast as Superman? He isn’t RDJ here. General audiences don’t by in large care for his Superman and likely wouldn’t miss him if he was recast.

He hasn't been a lead in a movie. But Witcher is a huge success which has made him more successful than any film he's done.
 
He hasn't been a lead in a movie. But Witcher is a huge success which has made him more successful than any film he's done.
That’s nice, but if he’s found more success as Witcher than doing GOAT Superman perhaps he’s better off there. And to be honest, being a draw enough for people to leave their homes to a movie theater and being a draw enough for someone to choose to watch your show on their Netflix account in the comfort of their homes are rather different things, no? Again, Cavil isn’t to Superman what RDJ is to Iron Man. I don’t think audiences have any attachment to his version of the character outside the Snyder fandom. That being said, if they have Cavil play Superman in a solo franchise I don’t think it’d the worse choice ever as I think they can salvage him in the role if they go with a soft reboot, but I’d rather see a new actor with a new take. I don’t think he’s a very strong actor overall.
 
That’s nice, but if he’s found more success as Witcher than doing GOAT Superman perhaps he’s better off there. And to be honest, being a draw enough for people to leave their homes to a movie theater and being a draw enough for someone to choose to watch your show on their Netflix account in the comfort of their homes are rather different things, no? Again, Cavil isn’t to Superman what RDJ is to Iron Man. I don’t think audiences have any attachment to his version of the character outside the Snyder fandom. That being said, if they have Cavil play Superman in a solo franchise I don’t think it’d the worse choice ever as I think they can salvage him in the role if they go with a soft reboot, but I’d rather see a new actor with a new take. I don’t think he’s a very strong actor overall.

Only 1 person has found success as a DC character in this DCEU and that's Gal. Henry was forced into 3 subpar films that got eaten apart that even brought down leading man Ben Affleck. But plenty of people still want Cavill. But no DC film is strong enough to force people to leave their homes, that's on WB. Not the actors.
 
These rumors sound...not so great imo. Instead of replacing certain characters, why don't they just recast and soft reboot?
 
Only 1 person has found success as a DC character in this DCEU and that's Gal. Henry was forced into 3 subpar films that got eaten apart that even brought down leading man Ben Affleck. But plenty of people still want Cavill. But no DC film is strong enough to force people to leave their homes, that's on WB. Not the actors.
You’re 100% right that there are many who want him back, but the question is are there many who want him back enough that it will actually impact the box office returns on the movies if they replace him? I’m inclined to think no. All I’m saying is that I don’t think he’s irreplaceable and he isn’t vital to the success to the long term success of the character like RDJ was for Iron Man. That being said, if they bring him back, I wouldn’t be opposed but it wouldn’t be my preference. They could always bring back Cavil and do a soft reboot version of the character that people want to see, and that could be successful and redeem him but I’d think they’d have a easier time going with another actor with a new vision.

@flickchick85 I’m curious for your thoughts, where do you fall on this side of this debate?
 
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RDJ is a special beast. Charisma in bags that elevated everything around him so I think it's a tad unfair to compare.

A comparison to Bale's Batman I think would be fairer. While I think Henry didn't quite get there even with that comparison, the difference is Bale had 3 solo films to do it. Had BB and MOS stopped at the same point both of the actor's portrayals would have been on even keel.

All Henry needs is another solo under the right person and he'll prove people wrong.
 
RDJ is a special beast. Charisma in bags that elevated everything around him so I think it's a tad unfair to compare.

A comparison to Bale's Batman I think would be fairer. While I think Henry didn't quite get there even with that comparison, the difference is Bale had 3 solo films to do it. Had BB and MOS stopped at the same point both of the actor's portrayals would have been on even keel.

All Henry needs is another solo under the right person and he'll prove people wrong.
Unlike Bale, I don’t think Cavil is an especially good actor and always felt stiff in the role. I thought Bale did a much better job in BB than Cavil ever did in MOS. Of course, that is just is my subjective opinion that you’re totally free to disagree(and you do disagree). Though I will agree there’s still potential for Cavil to shine in the role with the right script and director, but as far I’m concerned I’d rather they move on, and go with another actor and start from scratch.
 

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