The All Things Flash Thread. - Part 2

[dhandler01]

My biggest reason to want to see this film is to see some final cool (even if short) scenes with Affleck as Batman/Bruce Wayne. I Love Affleck in the role, even if I am not the biggest fan of any of the films he was in. Keaton is really cool too of course. While I am very curious how all these various speedforce cameos will be, those generally dont mean anything besides fan service . Like those CW/Titans cameos but with a big budget.

I thought he was great. This was the Batman I thought we would get when he was announced. I really was excited back then. Snyder so dropped the ball.

 

[BatLobster]

TDK isnt the film these fans pretend it is.

It really is, though. The further we get from it the more clear that becomes for me, personally. It remains my gold standard because it achieves my personal ideal for the balance of artistic vision and blockbuster entertainment-- that's reality for me, no pretending here.

I think there is a real dividing line here where I just simply cannot invest the same level of emotional weight in a movie when it feels like it's 50% CGI...and not even good CGI. Maybe that's close-minded and for some people that's not an issue-- great, enjoy! For me, it's a pretty big issue. And I don't think this movie's story was mind-blowing enough that I can just overlook all that. Doesn't mean I can't have fun with it, but I am so superhero fatigued at this point that I just think it's fair to say that we deserve better than this. I can like the movie and still feel that way.

I understand Keaton's return is a really big deal, he's my childhood Batman too. He's the sole reason I cared to see this. I hope everyone gets exactly what they need out of that aspect of the movie. But I just can't help but wish it was in a stronger movie than this, that was more in line with the aesthetic and style that his Batman belongs to.

 

[dhandler01]

And see to me it doesn't hold up. Now I see a lot of the flaws and holes in it which I didn't see back then. Plus I just am sick of how serious it was. It's a technically brilliant film but it is more Heat than Batman which is fine Heat is a Mount Rushmore film for me.

Batman '89 is the gold standard for me (of Batman films...Supes 1 and 2 overall) and it isn't close. I like it more now than I did then and I was 9 back then. It wasn't embarrassed of the fantastical it leaned into it and wore it on its sleeve. It didn't just plop Batman into Chicago, it created a Gothic Gotham. It is just the best.

The point of my comment though was to say the hype monsters pretend that every film is the best since something they love. This film isn't as good as either of them, but it also didn't have to be and you should always take all hype with a grain of salt. Very few films live up to hype.

 

[BatLobster]

And see to me it doesn't hold up. Now I see a lot of the flaws and holes in it which I didn't see back then. Plus I just am sick of how serious it was. It's a technically brilliant film but it is more Heat than Batman which is fine Heat is a Mount Rushmore film for me.

Batman '89 is the gold standard for me (of Batman films...Supes 1 and 2 overall) and it isn't close. I like it more now than I did then and I was 9 back then. It wasn't embarrassed of the fantastical it leaned into it and wore it on its sleeve. It didn't just plop Batman into Chicago, it created a Gothic Gotham. It is just the best.

The point of my comment though was to say the hype monsters pretend that every film is the best since something they love. This film isn't as good as either of them, but it also didn't have to be and you should always take all hype with a grain of salt. Very few films live up to hype.

See for me, the tone of the Flash is exactly the MCU tone that I've grown so sick of over the past 15 years after seeing it over and over and over again. It's just that this is DC finally cracking that formula, a decade after The Avengers. Even TDK's tone to me feels much more fun and thrilling to me than other attempts at serious CBMs since. It's got a rare balance IMO. That's a whole different convo though. I also have a ton of love for Burton's Batman so I'm with you there. I think they are absolute masterpieces of aesthetics and tone.

I hear what you're saying though, I realized I may have misinterpreted what you meant after the fact. I think I looked at the hype with this movie a little differently because it wasn't just fan hype. It was people like James Gunn calling it one of the best of all time, industry buzz, etc. I know that's PR and I tried not to let it get to me, but unfortunately it did. I just think it's a fun popcorn flick, and there's nothing wrong with that, but I went into this hoping maybe there was a chance it was going to be a game-changer in some way. And I just don't know if it's that on any level at all.

 

[kguillou]

I obviously havent seen the movie and @dhandler01 can speak to this more (without spoilers please ) but the vibe that I'm getting from the people who proclaimed Flash as "one of the best ever" is that the movie has a strong emotional core. Theyre not saying its the best because of its spectacle or fan service or surprising cameos, it sounds like the movie at its core has a very heart wrenching emotional resonance that sticks with you. Its a story about a kid trying to save his mom and I think that's something that could really tug on the heart strings if done well and it sounds like Flash does.

@dhandler01 do you concur?

 

[Gothamsknight]

If TDK isn't the movie people like me "pretend it is", then others should stop comparing their latest favorite cbm's to it. If people are so confident in modern interpretations of Batman or other heroes, then there's no point in randomly bringing up TDK to bag on it like I see on twitter on regular basis. if it's such a flawed/bad interpretation of Batman, then those people should forget about it, right? If it wasn't that good, then it wouldn't be brought up anymore like it always has been whenever a new Batman film or great CBM comes out. It just looks to me like people can't stand when something is considered great for so long. Am I supposed to dislike Empire Strikes Back now or Terminator 2? I still love Batman 89, Batman Returns and The Batman. They are all great and vaild interpretations of Batman. I just think TDK is a stronger film.

in regards to The Flash, I'm expecting to have a blast with it even if it's not a game changer. I don't think a movie needs to do that in order to be great. The problem is the amount of hyperbole we see. Everything either has to be trash or the best thing ever these days. I'm also sur eim gonna be buying it on 4k to add to my Batman collection.

 

[Frodo]

If TDK isn't the movie people like me "pretend it is", then others should stop comparing their latest favorite cbm's to it. If people are so confident in modern interpretations of Batman or other heroes, then there's no point in randomly bringing up TDK to bag on it like I see on twitter on regular basis. if it's such a flawed/bad interpretation of Batman, then those people should forget about it, right? If it wasn't that good, then it wouldn't be brought up anymore like it always has been whenever a new Batman film or great CBM comes out. It just looks to me like people can't stand when something is considered great for so long. Am I supposed to dislike Empire Strikes Back now or Terminator 2? I still love Batman 89, Batman Returns and The Batman. They are all great and vaild interpretations of Batman. I just think TDK is a stronger film.

in regards to The Flash, I'm expecting to have a blast with it even if it's not a game changer. I don't think a movie needs to do that in order to be great. The problem is the amount of hyperbole we see. Everything either has to be trash or the best thing ever these days. I'm also sur eim gonna be buying it on 4k to add to my Batman collection.

TDK is among the best of the CBM genre , and if anything, I see alot of the claims about other DC and Marvel films that " This Film is better than the Dark Knight!" ,as a sign that even fans who may rag on TDK, acknowledge it's place and importance in the genre .

So, I tend not to take the " this is better than the dark knight!" claims we hear all the time from both DC and Marvel fans , all that seriously .

TDK sets a very high bar , and imo , there are only a few CBM which are in TDK's weight class.

 

[Lily Adler]

ChatGPT is the new Skynet in the next reboot

You joke, but Microsoft is planning to bake it into Windows, which is running on most if not all computers in the world.

 

[chintai80]

You joke, but Microsoft is planning to bake it into Windows, which is running on most if not all computers in the world.

 

[Gothamsknight]

TDK is among the best of the CBM genre , and if anything, I see alot of the claims about other DC and Marvel films that " This Film is better than the Dark Knight!" ,as a sign that even fans who may rag on TDK, acknowledge it's place and importance in the genre .

So, I tend not to take the " this is better than the dark knight!" claims we hear all the time from both DC and Marvel fans , all that seriously .

TDK sets a very high bar , and imo , there are only a few CBM which are in TDK's weight class.

Well said. And I'm not saying people have to like it, but it's the attempts, and especially retroactive attempts people make to discredit it and explain why it's not actually a good Batman movie. It's just nonsense to me.

Anyway, im pretty darn excited for the flash. These days there's not many cbms i get hyped for mainly because I feel like what I'm looking for is so specific. Deadpool 3, Superman Legacy and The Batman Part II are the ones I'm most excited for at this point. Everything else is just wait and see.

 

[dhandler01]

See for me, the tone of the Flash is exactly the MCU tone that I've grown so sick of over the past 15 years after seeing it over and over and over again. It's just that this is DC finally cracking that formula, a decade after The Avengers. Even TDK's tone to me feels much more fun and thrilling to me than other attempts at serious CBMs since. It's got a rare balance IMO. That's a whole different convo though. I also have a ton of love for Burton's Batman so I'm with you there. I think they are absolute masterpieces of aesthetics and tone.

I hear what you're saying though, I realized I may have misinterpreted what you meant after the fact. I think I looked at the hype with this movie a little differently because it wasn't just fan hype. It was people like James Gunn calling it one of the best of all time, industry buzz, etc. I know that's PR and I tried not to let it get to me, but unfortunately it did. I just think it's a fun popcorn flick, and there's nothing wrong with that, but I went into this hoping maybe there was a chance it was going to be a game-changer in some way. And I just don't know if it's that on any level at all.

This has more emotion than most of the MCU films I watched. To be fair though I have maybe seen half. To me this felt more like a Spielberg film than a Feige Joint.

I get what you are saying completely though and I admit I found a lot of the hype off-putting before I saw it. I honestly expected it to fail like so many others. I was surprised it didn't. Maybe it's just I naturally expect the worst and hope for the best

 

[dhandler01]

I obviously havent seen the movie and @dhandler01 can speak to this more (without spoilers please ) but the vibe that I'm getting from the people who proclaimed Flash as "one of the best ever" is that the movie has a strong emotional core. Theyre not saying its the best because of its spectacle or fan service or surprising cameos, it sounds like the movie at its core has a very heart wrenching emotional resonance that sticks with you. Its a story about a kid trying to save his mom and I think that's something that could really tug on the heart strings if done well and it sounds like Flash does.

@dhandler01 do you concur?

Yes that states it quite well

 

[dhandler01]

If TDK isn't the movie people like me "pretend it is", then others should stop comparing their latest favorite cbm's to it. If people are so confident in modern interpretations of Batman or other heroes, then there's no point in randomly bringing up TDK to bag on it like I see on twitter on regular basis. if it's such a flawed/bad interpretation of Batman, then those people should forget about it, right? If it wasn't that good, then it wouldn't be brought up anymore like it always has been whenever a new Batman film or great CBM comes out. It just looks to me like people can't stand when something is considered great for so long. Am I supposed to dislike Empire Strikes Back now or Terminator 2? I still love Batman 89, Batman Returns and The Batman. They are all great and vaild interpretations of Batman. I just think TDK is a stronger film.

in regards to The Flash, I'm expecting to have a blast with it even if it's not a game changer. I don't think a movie needs to do that in order to be great. The problem is the amount of hyperbole we see. Everything either has to be trash or the best thing ever these days. I'm also sur eim gonna be buying it on 4k to add to my Batman collection.

That isn't how I meant it and I have zero issue with films being liked for very long. What I was trying to say is that type of hyperbole is ridiculous. I just stated it badly.

 

[dhandler01]

You joke, but Microsoft is planning to bake it into Windows, which is running on most if not all computers in the world.

Well then I for one welcome our new AI overlords!

Johnny 5 was alive!!!

 

[Gothamsknight]

That isn't how I meant it and I have zero issue with films being liked for very long. What I was trying to say is that type of hyperbole is ridiculous. I just stated it badly.

Ah well my apologies haha

 

[BatLobster]

To put a positive spin on my somewhat cranky, begrudgingly positive review ... here's what I'll say for The Flash. It's the type of movie that Justice League probably should've been in the first place. So I think it'll definitely scratch that itch for people who've been craving that kind of experience out of a DC film. Not a neutered, studio-compromised hackjob awkwardly trying to be a Marvel movie. But not a 4 hour, overly indulgent movie for a niche audience of a specific director. Just a competent, fun/funny superhero blockbuster that at least tries to swing for some big emotions. If that's what you're looking for, you're gonna have a good time. The movie is well-paced, I'll definitely say it has that in its favor too. I guess it probably would've been really bad PR for a movie about Flash to have been a dull, slow-paced slog . Thankfully it's not that.

And hey, I hope that some of the VFX look better in the final version. They're probably still slaving away on some shots as we speak.

 

[dhandler01]

Yes this is what Justice League should have been. It assumes a bright light on the deficiency of those involved with that film...all versions of it.

 

[Dragoncaine]

To put a positive spin on my somewhat cranky, begrudgingly positive review ... here's what I'll say for The Flash. It's the type of movie that Justice League probably should've been in the first place. So I think it'll definitely scratch that itch for people who've been craving that kind of experience out of a DC film. Not a neutered, studio-compromised hackjob awkwardly trying to be a Marvel movie. But not a 4 hour, overly indulgent movie for a niche audience of a specific director. Just a competent, fun/funny superhero blockbuster that at least tries to swing for some big emotions. If that's what you're looking for, you're gonna have a good time. The movie is well-paced, I'll definitely say it has that in its favor too. I guess it probably would've been really bad PR for a movie about Flash to have been a dull, slow-paced slog . Thankfully it's not that.

And hey, I hope that some of the VFX look better in the final version. They're probably still slaving away on some shots as we speak.

Your review is really intriguing to me. As someone who thoroughly enjoyed but didn't love NWH, and is looking forward to Flash, one of my big criticisms with NWH is how safe it all felt despite being this supposedly huge multiverse story. I was even more disappointed by how bland Multiverse of Madness was in its extremely boring story. So I'm hoping I enjoy all the parts you enjoyed, but also get a little more creativity/boldness out of The Flash than you appear to have gotten

 

[chintai80]

a competently made fun superhero film with emotional resonance is what DC movies should be about!

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Yes this is what Justice League should have been. It assumes a bright light on the deficiency of those involved with that film...all versions of it.

If that's all this is, I will happily take that!

 

[BatLobster]

Your review is really intriguing to me. As someone who thoroughly enjoyed but didn't love NWH, and is looking forward to Flash, one of my big criticisms with NWH is how safe it all felt despite being this supposedly huge multiverse story. I was even more disappointed by how bland Multiverse of Madness was in its extremely boring story. So I'm hoping I enjoy all the parts you enjoyed, but also get a little more creativity/boldness out of The Flash than you appear to have gotten

I can see where some people will see some of the things the movie does in the third act as taking swings, and I liked where it went, but it also didn’t exactly blow me away either.

I guess maybe some of my mixed emotions here comes from the fact that I’ve spent nearly three decades imagining what it would be like to see Keaton’s Batman again and while the movie does an okay enough job of scratching that itch, it doesn’t come close to reaching the potential of what that could’ve been IMO. Essentially, it makes me just wish we had actually got a full-on Keaton Batman movie, or Batman Beyond. Even if it wasn’t Burton directing. Like what Villeneuve did for Blade Runner, but with Burton’s Batman-- if someone had really strived to capture a modern version of that tone and aesthetic? That could’ve been so freaking fire. So for this movie not to be that at all, and then the movie pivoting to take him off the board towards the end...it left a kind of sour taste in my mouth. If this movie showed me one thing it's that Keaton has more to give this role. I guess there's always a chance as an Elseworlds, but I dunno. I'm all for Gunn building out his universe as he sees fit, but it just sucks that this outing for Keaton ends up feeling like such a tease for me. I didn't feel closure, even though the movie is kind of aiming for that. You can just feel that the original intent of the movie got yanked out of it at the last second.

 

[aliakrep]

 

[Gothamsknight]

A Keaton Batman Beyond film is still something I think WB and Gunn should consider. It can totally be an elseworlds story and it's also looooong over due.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

So many goosebumps. Just hearing Keaton's Batman saying the word 'Superman' is

A Keaton Batman Beyond film is still something I think WB and Gunn should consider. It can totally be an elseworlds story and it's also looooong over due.

Seriously, just...

 

[Detective Conan]