The Amazing Spider-Man 2 The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Box Office Prediction Thread - Part 2

[jmc]

My point wasn't about the films quality or how well it was received. Rather that the studio could have made a straight sequel and focused on that(going forward) or the studio could have expanded into their full arsenal of novelty and 'universe' and such, and reaped the rewards.

Why would sony choose the former over the latter?

It's a misguided choice. The Spider-Man franchise doesn't have the kind of depth that makes 'expanding' viable or even interesting to audiences. The MCU is how big it wants to be because of all the wealth of material at Marvel's disposal. It also has the advantage that there's a genuine build up to the team up film. Same deal with WB and the MoS universe. Sony has Spider-Man and that's it. It's not the type of series you can build up to anything because there just isn't the depth there to make it worthwhile. When you take the focus off making good Spider-Man films in some misguided attempt at 'world building' you're never going to satisfy audiences, and eventually it will come back to bite you in the arse.

 

[chaseter]

While I love Raimi's Spider-Man movies (except for SM3), I think he tried too hard to make the villains seemed sympathetic, and I have a feeling that this is what they'll be doing in the Sinister Six movie. If they make the moviegoers sit through a movie where the main characters are all bastards and without any redeeming value, then I doubt it'll make any money at the BO.

That's because you have to make the villain resonate with the audience. Tragic villains are the greatest villain because of their fall from grace. It makes them multi dimensional. Complete psychos who only have one thought and that is to kill Spider-Man aren't that good imo. It's when you have the complete psycho have a duality about him such as Norman, then that makes them even more creepier to the audience. I love the Norman that is a wolf in sheep's clothing. I hate the always evil Norman/OSCORP because it's so one dimensional.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Variety threw around the $125m figure for the 4 day weekend.

That doesn't sound too far fetched.

 

[Marvin]

It's a misguided choice. The Spider-Man franchise doesn't have the kind of depth that makes 'expanding' viable or even interesting to audiences. The MCU is how big it wants to be because of all the wealth of material at Marvel's disposal. It also has the advantage that there's a genuine build up to the team up film. Same deal with WB and the MoS universe. Sony has Spider-Man and that's it. It's not the type of series you can build up to anything because there just isn't the depth there to make it worthwhile. When you take the focus off making good Spider-Man films in some misguided attempt at 'world building' you're never going to satisfy audiences, and eventually it will come back to bite you in the arse.

If you have talented creators you can satisfy audiences.

The characters and the premise is sound as far as I'm concerned. If you took morrison and millar and kelly(circa deadpool) and Clarmont and Scott Snyder(love him) etc and had them put out a some max series on the Sinister 6, you'd see your depth and intrigue to be sure. There is alot that can be done with this. Not so different than if a suicide squad film was green lit. Characters are characters.

No one is suggesting they turn shocker into the next cap property or even Doc ock into Thor with Vulture as the ironman etc. A viable brand in that group under that name, could go a long way given the goal. A new brand that will collide with spidey in the near future, even better. I mean did they have to call it shield and put it on tv for it's benefits to ring true.

When you take the focus off of telling good spidey films thing fall apart. But to blame that on s6 is off base. Blame that one a one dimensional Jamie Foxx performance..etc.

 

[chaseter]

A Sinister Six movie is like making a Legion of Doom movie...no one is going to care. An all villain movie is going to crash and burn, disregarding quality.

 

[jmc]

If you have talented creators you can satisfy audiences.

The characters and the premise is sound as far as I'm concerned. If you took morrison and millar and kelly(circa deadpool) and Clarmont and Scott Snyder(love him) etc and had them put out a some max series on the Sinister 6, you'd see your depth and intrigue to be sure. There is alot that can be done with this. Not so different than if a suicide squad film was green lit. Characters are characters.

No one is suggesting they turn shocker into the next cap property or even Doc ock into Thor with Vulture as the ironman etc. A viable brand in that group under that name, could go a long way given the goal. A new brand that will collide with spidey in the near future, even better. I mean did they have to call it shield and put it on tv for it's benefits to ring true.

When you take the focus off of telling good spidey films thing fall apart. But to blame that on s6 is off base. Blame that one a one dimensional Jamie Foxx performance..etc.

You're basically saying anything has potential if the right people are involved - which is true, but it's also a hollow statement because that goes for any idea and is not exclusive to this series. Ultimately though the material itself has to be there in the first place to warrant any 'expansion', otherwise you're watering down the entire mythology. Does Spider-Man have the depth for a 'wider universe'? The problem I foresee is with something like the Sinister 6 film is first and foremost who is it suppose to appeal to? It's a basic bloody question with a very unclear answer. Am I, the audience member, suppose to cheer them on in that film then boo them in the Spider-Man movie? Are they all just misunderstood people? You can't treat every Spider-Man villain as an anti-hero. How do you sell the idea of a film in the Spider-Man universe without Spider-Man? Difficult if nigh impossible is probably the answer. It's these type of questions that probably aren't being asked in the board room because it comes down to Marvel envy on Sony's part. Sure, it makes sense in the heads of the people in charge because they want more money, the problem is no-one has probably bothered to ask whether anyone else will care.

 

[Marvin]

A Sinister Six movie is like making a Legion of Doom movie...no one is going to care. An all villain movie is going to crash and burn, disregarding quality.

1)How many examples do you have of this 'crashing and burning'

2)I've seen similar work out well enough.

3)They don't have to be villains.

 

[Marvin]

You're basically saying anything has potential if the right people are involved - which is true, but it's also a hollow statement because that goes for any idea and is not exclusive to this series.

That's exactly what I'm saying, whereas I hear tell people are saying the opposite. Which I find strange. Any project (can)succeed or fails on the talent involved. The question is what is it about this one that makes success impossible? 'Difficulty?' 'odds?' Your ideas about why they are doing it? I guess you get into that below...

The problem I foresee is with something like the Sinister 6 film is first and foremost who is it suppose to appeal to?

Genre movie fans with a tastes for action and spectacle, high concept and an added bonus, the promise of relevance. A pretty large demo these days.

It's a basic bloody question with a very unclear answer. Am I, the audience member, suppose to cheer them on in that film then boo them in the Spider-Man movie? Are they all just misunderstood people? You can't treat every Spider-Man villain as an anti-hero.

Why not, who do you cheer on in those Riddick movies. Or inception...
All they need to do is pull the good guy bad string of luck spiderman villain go to, with any one character and you have your producer note for who to cheer on met.
Just an idea.

How do you sell the idea of a film in the Spider-Man universe without Spider-Man? Difficult if nigh impossible is probably the answer.

Simple, you sell a film.
I refuse to believe the entire cinematic audience is a bunch of fanboys that need their cinema to constantly meet the checks and balances of who is the big important main character of the brand and why aren't they here. This same audience just gave 700plus mill to Gravity and neither Buzz showed up. The audience just bought a ticket to a movie that looked viable. Isn't that how hollywood works or has that time come and gone now. Can you make a loki movie without thor?

It's these type of questions that probably aren't being asked in the board room because it comes down to Marvel envy on Sony's part. Sure, it makes sense in the heads of the people in charge because they want more money, the problem is no-one has probably bothered to ask whether anyone else will care.

This is the only hollow anything here. I'm sure we both know why. We don't know what or why they are doing anything, only assuming we are smarter than they.

 

[jmc]

I really wish you wouldn't have split up my post because as much as I'd like to reply, and I have valid responses, I can't be bothered replying in the same fashion.

 

[chaseter]

1)How many examples do you have of this 'crashing and burning'

2)I've seen similar work out well enough.

3)They don't have to be villains.

1) How many Doc Ock shirts are in Walmart?

2) List them

3) They are all villains. One being less villainous is not movie worthy.

 

[Raiden]

3)They don't have to be villains.

So they are misunderstood? And Spider-Man will be fighting people who were basically down-on-his-luck good guys who have no choice but to turn to crime? It may work in Spider-Man 2 because of the story, and Doc Ock redeemed his crime in the end with his life, but I don't see how it can be applied to a Sinister Six movie.

 

[enterthemadness]

So, this movie seems to be on track to do even less than ASM. That ''reboot'' did $262 Domestic, and this one is on pace for around $230 Domestic.


Well....never should had rebooted it, SONY.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

So, this movie seems to be on track to do even less than ASM. That ''reboot'' did $262 Domestic, and this one is on pace for around $230 Domestic.


Well....never should had rebooted it, SONY.

Spider-man movies always drop in North America.

SM2 dropped from SM1.

SM3 dropped.

ASM dropped.

ASM2 dropped.

 

[Eddie]

Any movie that features Paul Giamatti's Rhino as a central character is going to have a difficult time being a good movie, much less pull off the sympathetic misunderstood villain thing.

 

[Eddie]

Spider-man movies always drop in North America.

SM2 dropped from SM1.

SM3 dropped.

ASM dropped.

ASM2 dropped.

Then perhaps Sony is doing something wrong.

 

[Micromind]

It will be ironic if Sinister Six movie makes more money then TASM 2.

 

[Eddie]

It will be ironic if Sinister Six movie makes more money then TASM 2.

It will be a miracle if Sinister Six makes more money than TASM2.

 

[chaseter]

It will be a miracle if Sinister Six is actually made. ASM2's box office is going to cause some talks to go on at Sony.

 

[Marvin]

I really wish you wouldn't have split up my post because as much as I'd like to reply, and I have valid responses, I can't be bothered replying in the same fashion.

I know, i've read your sig.
We are who we are.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Sinister Six will be lucky to cross 150 m.

I haven't come across a single person who's been clamoring for a Sinister Six spin off.

At least Venom has somewhat of a fanbase.

 

[Micromind]

Actually, Sinister Six movie has something called as "novelty factor" working for it, it would surely generate some interest and if it has Spidey as guest star in it then it would make more money.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I think a Sinister Six movie would make way less than a Spider-Man film at the box office. It also doesn't help that the villains in this series are terrible.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

What is the appeal of Sinister Six outside of being a massive threat to Spider-Man? Take that away and what is supposed to be the appeal?

 

[Marvin]

1) How many Doc Ock shirts are in Walmart?

2) List them

3) They are all villains. One being less villainous is not movie worthy.

1)You didn't answer my question.
3)What's movie worthy isn't simply up to you, unfortunately.

2)As for listing them, off the top of my head there is Dirty Dozen(A US Army Major is assigned a dozen convicted murderers to train and lead them into a mass assassination mission of...), seems like it was well received. Then more of the anti hero thing in the Riddick films and Fast films and inception...
Then you have the guy that has to do evil bidding or he'll die after making a deal with the devil paradigm...the undercover guy..

Everything boils down to motivation. Sometimes it's revenge, sometimes is like spidey two(with doc ock and harry)..or something like crank.
meh, they have lots of options.

Back in 2002, my friend used to tell me he would have loved to see a movie about the blood pack, even without blade. Said he found them all so interesting and they seemingly were all heroes in the film. That being said, they still had it out for blade.

So they are misunderstood? And Spider-Man will be fighting people who were basically down-on-his-luck good guys who have no choice but to turn to crime? It may work in Spider-Man 2 because of the story, and Doc Ock redeemed his crime in the end with his life, but I don't see how it can be applied to a Sinister Six movie.

He's been fighting those types of people from the jump. And when he wasn't they were given a tangible motivation(see 1&3). No reason the group can be littered with all sorts of interesting people will all sorts of motivations. I'd even look at the new robocop as an example...

And yes, its worked in various spiderman films. If you want to decide it can't work here that's your prerogative I guess. Harry seems like a pretty manipulative guy by my measure.

 

[Eddie]

Actually, Sinister Six movie has something called as "novelty factor" working for it, it would surely generate some interest and if it has Spidey as guest star in it then it would make more money.

AHA! Spider-Man movies where Spidey guest stars would make more money than actual Spider-Man movies! Genius!!!

Seriously, though, cameos don't save a movie's box office total. The Incredible Hulk would have made Iron Man money if that's all it took.