The Amazing Spider-Man The Amazing Spider-Man General Discussion & Speculation Thread - Part 1

[socool]

@socool Name the last movie you've seen with identical dopplegangers that was actually good.

I can't think of one with dopplegangers to begin with, so...haha.

 

[VenomSpawn]

...That didn't make any sense, haha. Not once did he say the movie was cheesy. He said it was going to be cheesy. There's a difference. He didn't sound like he saw the movie at all.

I dunno, he made it sound like it was fact that this movie is cheesy.

 

[Ultimatehero]

For those who are against this, what did you think of 'Night of the Lizard' in the Spider-Man: Animated Series? I remember years back I even did an adaptation which a lot of fans loved - it, similarly, had that as the Lizard's end goal. While we did not actually see people become converted except for a quick mili-second it was in there and posters declared they wanted me to write for MARVEL even. It just seems like a complete 180.

Plus, the design of the SWAT Lizards does seem somewhat childish, I admit it, but remember this is a toy meant to be played by all ages.

 

[Troy_Parker]

Don't really see how it points out a weakness in the script.

Like people said, it's something that was in the comics... and in the 90's cartoon.

 

[socool]

Don't really see how it points out a weakness in the script.

Like people said, it's something that was in the comics.

Being in the comics=/=greatness.

 

[craigdbfan]

I can't think of one with dopplegangers to begin with, so...haha.

I shouldn't generalize though as not all dopplegangers are bad but usually it's not a good sign when being used to the effect that it seems to be in this movie.

When it's almost a literal clone that is used for action to act as a deterrent for the protagonist/s (Dragonball: Evolution) it usually sucks. It means that they had not other situation that doesn't require a repetition of the main villain. That's usually really boring and done in the worst of movies.

Although when it's used to a smart effect for a shocking revelation/reveal as the catharsis of the film it can be quite brilliant (The Prestiege).

The Lizard SWAT minion sounds more like the former. To me that's not a good indication of the plot and seems like 101 lazy writing.

Don't really see how it points out a weakness in the script.

Like people said, it's something that was in the comics... and in the 90's cartoon.

Adding some of the worst elements from the cartoons and comics isn't something to write home about.

 

[Troy_Parker]

I can't think of one with dopplegangers to begin with, so...haha.

The Matrix Reloaded?

 

[socool]

The Matrix Reloaded?

I was smart enough to avoid that one.

 

[Troy_Parker]

Being in the comics=/=greatness.

That seems to be true whenever something that happened in Raimi's Spider-Man is brought up.

 

[socool]

I shouldn't generalize though as not all dopplegangers are bad but usually it's not a good sign when being used to the effect that it seems to be in this movie.

When it's almost a literal clone that is used for action to act as a deterrent for the protagonist/s (Dragonball: Evolution) it usually sucks. It means that they had not other situation that doesn't require a repetition of the main villain. That's usually really boring and done in the worst of movies.

Although when it's used to a smart effect for a shocking revelation/reveal as the catharsis of the film it can be quite brilliant (The Prestiege).

The Lizard SWAT minion sounds more like the former. To me that's not a good indication of the plot and seems like 101 lazy writing.

Okay, that I agree with...mostly. It really could be either for the shock value or because they had no ideas left...but James Vanderbuilt did write the script so I somewhat doubt he didn't have a reason for it. He is a good writer. Still, I'm hoping it's the shock value. Plus, if done right, it could be scary as all hell.

 

[Webhead38]

Why do you speak like you're opinion is fact? Just because the Lizard isn't overly detailed doesn't mean it's cheesy. I don't know why a complex design equals greatness for you.

Wow... You found words I never uttered here. Am I looking for greatness? NOOOOOOO. Did I ever measure my criticisms based on the 'complexity' of the design? NOOOOOOOO. Did I even mention whether or not he was overly detailed? NOOOOOOO. I said many here thought the last installment was cheesy. By all appearances, none of which you captured correctly in your description, this looks considerably more cheesy. But,at the end of the day, it's an opinion. If you feel differently, tell me why. Point to a film that has a dated look to it's characters at the fourth entry of a franchise (reboot or not) that was successful. Removing the comic references of the 60's, tell me what the casual viewer would find inspiring about the look of this villain.

 

[BREAD WARRIOR]

I'm REALLY on the fence about The Lizard's ultimate goal being to transform people. To me it seems like a pretty generic movie baddie plan. But on the other hand it does have great ramifications if spidey fails. I would like the idea if The Lizard was infecting people like an animal and not intelligently making serums or toxins or whatever. But honestly I'm not a fan of all the recent "leaked details". The only thing I have high hopes for is Garfield as Peter/Spider-man. Love the guy and think he'll do great.

 

[Marvel Spider]

I'm REALLY on the fence about The Lizard's ultimate goal being to transform people. To me it seems like a pretty generic movie baddie plan. But on the other hand it does have great ramifications if spidey fails. I would like the idea if The Lizard was infecting people like an animal and not intelligently making serums or toxins or whatever. But honestly I'm not a fan of all the recent "leaked details". The only thing I have high hopes for is Garfield as Peter/Spider-man. Love the guy and think he'll do great.

No one has said that that's the Lizard's goal, or has said what his goal even is. It's not about transforming humanity, but about getting the upper hand against Spidey.

 

[socool]

Wow... You found words I never uttered here. Am I looking for greatness? NOOOOOOO. Did I ever measure my criticisms were based on the 'complexity' of the design? NOOOOOOOO. Did I even mention whether or not he was overly detailed? NOOOOOOO.

I just assumed that was your reasoning because the only changes the Lizard has compared to his comic counterpart is no clothes and a short snout. Literally nothing else is different. That's why I assumed you wanted a more detailed or complex look because it doesn't look at all like a TV 80s movie.

Every problem you have with the design is obviously because you don't like the Lizard in general. What would have made this design better? Nothing. Maybe the snout and clothes but then you have the Lizard from the comics verbatim. I don't understand what you don't like about the look...

 

[BREAD WARRIOR]

No one has said that that's the Lizard's goal, or has said what his goal even is. It's not about transforming humanity, but about getting the upper hand against Spidey.

Oh well sorry about that I guess I was taking speculation to literal. But still I'm not a fan of him intelligently making moves like that (I.e. changing people into lizard minions.) To me I would prefer him unintentionally infecting the swat and it just becoming another challenge for Spidey.

 

[VenomSpawn]

Oh well sorry about that I guess I was taking speculation to literal. But still I'm not a fan of him intelligently making moves like that (I.e. changing people into lizard minions.) To me I would prefer him unintentionally infecting the swat and it just becoming another challenge for Spidey.

Maybe he will. We won't know until it comes out.

 

[Webhead38]

Can you tell me about a certain scene in the movie I've been wondering about? Obviously since you've already seen the film you should be able to help me out here.

It's called MERCHANDISING revenue. You can weigh the merits of what happens to characters in a script. And if that was all we were discussing here, I would find no problem with your criticisms. But we're talking about a toy company that met with designers probably 18 months ago to start making product to push this film. Toy companies are not interested in making product that doesn't resemble the final look. And if you want to argue this could be a "variant" figure for the collectors, I would counter that by saying, "Nothing of the kind would find itself onto a buggy for kids to play with unless it was his final look." If you believe he will look better or more lizard like, then the toy companies would have seen that and developed product for it. Not create a bunch of product for a look he doesn't keep, nor would a child see as his final appearance. What you see if what your getting. That's not me saying it. That's merchandising 101.

 

[BREAD WARRIOR]

Maybe he will. We won't know until it comes out.

True that. But until then wishful thinking it is.

 

[VenomSpawn]

It's called MERCHANDISING revenue. You can weigh the merits of what happens to characters in a script. And if that was all we were discussing here, I would find no problem with your criticisms. But we're talking about a toy company that met with designers probably 18 months ago to start making product to push this film. Toy companies are not interested in making product that doesn't resemble the final look. And if you want to argue this could be a "variant" figure for the collectors, I would counter that by saying, "Nothing of the kind would find itself onto a buggy for kids to play with unless it was his final look." If you believe he will look better or more lizard like, then the toy companies would have seen that and developed product for it. Not create a bunch of product for a look he doesn't keep, nor would a child see as his final appearance. What you see if what your getting. That's not me saying it. That's merchandising 101.

That's not exactly what I was referring to. I know that the Lizard we've seen in the merchandise is the one we're getting. I was talking more about the fact that you were stating your opinion on how the film will be cheesy like it was fact. However I saw how stupid that was of me to say, so I removed my post and take back what I said.

 

[TheWallCrawler]

the non menacing look of the lizard in those pics remind me of this:

When people saw this they were afraid that the character wouldn't look menacing enough, BUT when Joker was shown in the trailer, everyone agreed that the look was pretty menacing

 

[TheSlag]

I just wonder WHY they think they need that storyline (Lizard Swat team). Webb is supposed to be more of a character driven director... and the the personal struggle between Connors/Lizard and Peter is much better than throwing in a Swat Team changing to Lizards.

The story of Capt Stacy's arc is much better on a personal basis... between the Lizard and Peter/Spider-Man.

And this takes it away from making it more realistic/serious that they claimed... with an entire Swat team turning... I realize they can still do the more serious approach, but this is a complete 180 from that "approach".

This SMACKS of Hollywood big wigs DEMANDING... MORE EXPLOSIONS/MORE ACTION to "sell tickets"

What next, will the Lizard Swat guys be firing M16s too???

 

[socool]

You have to remember, guys, Dr. Rafta still plays a part. He might be behind them for all we know.

 

[TheWallCrawler]

I just wonder WHY they think they need that storyline (Lizard Swat team). Webb is supposed to be more of a character driven director... and the the personal struggle between Connors/Lizard and Peter is much better than throwing in a Swat Team changing to Lizards.

The story of Capt Stacy's arc is much better on a personal basis... between the Lizard and Peter/Spider-Man.

And this takes it away from making it more realistic/serious that they claimed... with an entire Swat team turning... I realize they can still do the more serious approach, but this is a complete 180 from that "approach".

This SMACKS of Hollywood big wigs DEMANDING... MORE EXPLOSIONS/MORE ACTION to "sell tickets"

What next, will the Lizard Swat guys be firing M16s too???

This wasn't supposed to be realistic, it's not like this is going to be like Nolan's Batman. More grounded approach would be correct. And it's not necessary lizard's big plan to create an army of lizards... in Spider-man 3 game there was a lot of lizards but it didn't use that plot. Maybe it's simular here?

 

[TheSlag]

You have to remember, guys, Dr. Rafta still plays a part. He might be behind them for all we know.

Good point... God I hope you're right.

 

[Troy_Parker]

Not gonna lie, even though I'm not keen on the idea, seeing Spidey battle a few lizard-SWAT-men is going to be pretty cool.