The Atheism Thread - Part 5

[Piper Maru]

He likes impregnating virgins. I think he might be a bit like Errol Flynn crossed with David Bowie.

He can be such a meanie.

 

[BATZARRO WWD]

I'm not an Atheist. I'm not sure if what I'm about to say puts me in some nuanced "ism", either.

I'm pretty sure I don't know most there is to know. When I got here , the universe was already pretty much already put in there, stretching farther than I could hope to see, and older than people can tell me.

I don't know most things, is what I'm saying. I suspect most people don't know either. We try. I think science and religion are both useful to help us understand the world, in different ways. Personally, I have chosen Messianic Yahwinism as my faith.

I think a lot of the problems concerning Christianism( and really, nobody discussing Atheism in forums ever bothers to discuss the merits of Bhramanism or Voodoo or heaven forbid, Islam.) is that a lot of Christians don't even understand their own source material. They can't tell what parts are fables, when they do they don't know to interpret the fables. Thay don't know anything about the culture that generated the Bible.

And then, once they are done not knowing anything about the Bible, they become inflexible about stuff they don't understand. And then all y'all get angry about your moms taking you to Church instead and become Atheists.

Just kidding on that last part. Personally, I think a person can both follow the biblibal teachings and maintain a rational aproach to life. Because believing in a God doesn't strictly hinge on how old you believe the Earth is, but on living a pious life .

 

[Snow Queen]

^^Actually, I think a lot of the problems people have with Christianity is that parts of the Bible have some horrible teachings. Generally, I think most can say that some of the stories and messages (ex. Love your neighbour, do to others what you want them to do to you) are good ways to live your life but then there are Bible passages like:

"If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do."

“If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days."

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet."

"Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord."

"Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse."

"If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death."

And then how the church has discouraged the use of condoms in the part of the world where AIDs are most prevalent, been against women's rights in the past and today to a slightly lesser extent, been okay with slavery, discriminate against LGBT individuals, the pope used Christmas speeches to say no to gay marriage and then they claim that they are a church that teaches truth. Truth is eternal, it doesn't change. Therefore, the very fact that they've swapped sides on so many issues in the past (and, eventually, they will change with their discrimination of LGBT individuals) proves that they are not teaching truth. Truth does not change.

And then the teaching that God is perfect, but he kills people with bears for calling someone bald and allows child slavery, rape, murders, wars in his name and child rape within a church founded in his name. Now, before you bring up the devil, why does the devil exist? Why doesn't this all knowing, all powerful God get rid of the source of all evil? If he is able and willing, then why has he not? If he is willing and not able, why worship him? If he is able and not willing, why call him God?

 

[SV Fan]

And then the teaching that God is perfect, but he kills people with bears for calling someone bald and allows child slavery, rape, murders, wars in his name and child rape within a church founded in his name.

Don't forget God seems to get his jollies shoving people who don't obey him down the throat of a big fish for 3 days(and somehow this is supposed to be an uplifting story)

Beyond that this all powerful God decides to flood the world for 40 days and nights when he could have easily got rid of everybody by just sending lightening bolts to kill everybody who was on his hitlist. You think God would be a bit more resourceful, how can anybody worship that.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Even adoptive children who either get adopted or never get adopted understand without ever seeing evidence of their birth parents know that they came from somebody.
Why is it that you can't clearly see that creation has a Creator?
A painting need a Painter.
We are far more complex and thought out than a painting.
Now imagine the universe.
A very creative Creator made it all.

Not everything has a creator. That should be rather obvious.

What makes you feel that this universe needs a creator? Perhaps you don't understand the processes evolved.

And before you repeat that inane creed about paintings needing painters, take a minute to consider the nature of this universe we live in. What sort of creator would intentionally design a universe this way?

 

[Thundercrack85]

Just kidding on that last part. Personally, I think a person can both follow the biblibal teachings and maintain a rational aproach to life. Because believing in a God doesn't strictly hinge on how old you believe the Earth is, but on living a pious life .

Explain how the part about not suffering a witch to live can be reconciled with a "rational approach" to life.

 

[zeroapoc]

Why is it that you can't clearly see that creation has a Creator?
A painting need a Painter.
We are far more complex and thought out than a painting.
Now imagine the universe.
A very creative Creator made it all.

The fact that the universe is complex doesn't mean there has to be a creator. In fact the logic to your argument is flawed because this "creator" you're proposing is actually MORE complex.

 

[jmc]

Any complex being would have a scientific basis. The thing is if a 'creator' exists its not the form of some dude with a snowy white beard and toga behind the pearly gates (which I'm sorry Christians is borrowed from Greek mythology), in all likelihood it wouldn't even be self aware, it could be something of a hyper-dimensional membrane essentially floating between dimensions, unknowingly creating multiple parallel universes.

 

[Piper Maru]

I believe in the blind formless chaos known as Azathoth.

 

[Wams]

Not everything has a creator. That should be rather obvious.

What makes you feel that this universe needs a creator? Perhaps you don't understand the processes evolved.

And before you repeat that inane creed about paintings needing painters, take a minute to consider the nature of this universe we live in. What sort of creator would intentionally design a universe this way?

What sort of creator would intentionally design a universe this way?

A very creative one if you sense you asked.
You don't like the universe?
What would you create if you were God?

What makes you feel that this universe needs a creator?

What makes you not see the creativity?
If there was no creativity there would be no need
to explore it's wonders....like a Painters painting.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well, I probably wouldn't create a universe full of lifeless planets, collapsing stars and imploding galaxies.

I probably also wouldn't put the things made in my image on a barely habitable planet which will inevitably be destroyed when its star goes supernova. Provided an asteroid doesn't kill them all first.

Also, I'm still curious what this "creativity" is.

 

[moviedoors]

Well, I probably wouldn't create a universe full of lifeless planets, collapsing stars and imploding galaxies.

I probably also wouldn't put the things made in my image on a barely habitable planet which will inevitably be destroyed when its star goes supernova. Provided an asteroid doesn't kill them all first.

Also, I'm still curious what this "creativity" is.

Our sun isn't going to supernova.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Our sun isn't going to supernova.

I swear you're Doctor Evo.

 

[zeroapoc]

Our sun isn't going to supernova.

Nope. Red Giant phase and then eons as a White Dwarf.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Point is, it engulfs the planet, and kills everything. Well, everything would be long dead by the time that happens.

 

[Wams]

Well, I probably wouldn't create a universe full of lifeless planets, collapsing stars and imploding galaxies.

I probably also wouldn't put the things made in my image on a barely habitable planet which will inevitably be destroyed when its star goes supernova. Provided an asteroid doesn't kill them all first.

Also, I'm still curious what this "creativity" is.

I didn't ask you what you wouldn't do.

barely habitable planet

What?
Huh?


Oh...I get it.
'you're' just kidding.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well, I can see this is going nowhere.

I hope you enjoy Ray Comfort's next book.

Good night / morning.

 

[Piper Maru]

lol, the banana man.

 

[Shlee]

Look, if you're going to argue that there's some all-knowing Creator, then a) make your arguments more than "I can see the world, therefore someone created it, because it doesn't exist without a creator, so therefore there's a creator" because that's circular reasoning with no evidence to back it up, and b) learn the difference between "your" and "you're". Kthx.

 

[redhawk23]

The new pope recently went on the record saying that redemption is available for everyone including atheists. While I appreciate his open attitude and general non-*****eyness towards people different from himself, I must say I'm still really not looking for redemption.

 

[Snow Queen]

The new pope recently went on the record saying that redemption is available for everyone including atheists. While I appreciate his open attitude and general non-*****eyness towards people different from himself, I must say I'm still really not looking for redemption.

The rest of the Vatican disagrees with him.

http://patas.co/articles/pope-says-atheists-may-enter-heaven-but-vatican-says-no/

 

[redhawk23]

Haha so much for that whole "Pope is infallible" thing.

It is interesting to me that the way that respeonse is worded that it not only excludes atheists but non-Catholic Christians, normally the Church eases off that latter point a bit.

Again, as someone who doesn't believe in God, I am not seeking redemption based on his standards.

At the same time though, I appreciate that Pope Francis has chosen to officially recognize that non-believers and those of other religions are capable of doing good works and that working together to do good should be a priority.

It certainly beats the patronizing stance of Vatican II which tried to level with the diversity of beliefs in the world but only did so by declaring that good people are secretly all believers of the Christian God, even if they don't realize it.

 

[Hawkingbird]

Well there are elements out there that lead credence to the theory such as how the universe seems to be expanding from a particular point. Also there seems to be remnants of a big...well...bang that is the oldest point of the universe that we can see. Of course the key part of that is at the end of the sentence. There is only so much we can tell in the limited scope of humanity. There's enough to give us an idea of what's going on, but there's so much over our head that we can't put a definite finger on things.

It's a little fun to me that it's this way. The universe is so much bigger than I am that I have millions of lifetimes to get an answer on everything around me, and if I somehow managed to live a million lifetimes there would be a billion more lifetimes waiting for me because the universe has grown. I used to be really scared of that, but now it's fun when I don't try to answer everything without a definite box around my thoughts.

Boxes are for squares t:.

 

[Wams]

Look, if you're going to argue that there's some all-knowing Creator, then a) make your arguments more than "I can see the world, therefore someone created it, because it doesn't exist without a creator, so therefore there's a creator" because that's circular reasoning with no evidence to back it up, and b) learn the difference between "your" and "you're". Kthx.

I do know the difference between the two...

Thanks for the spotting my typo for me all the same.

"I can see the world, therefore someone created it, because it doesn't exist without a creator, so therefore there's a creator"

What do you say about the people who were born blind and believe in a Creator?

They don't count?

 

[Thundercrack85]

I actually believe that humans are born with a tendency towards religion.

If you don't understand how **** works, it makes sense that you would invent something to explain it. That's the start of every religion.

Early humans had no idea about their true nature, so they assumed someone created them. Once they figured out they lived on a planet, they assumed something created that, etc.

Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your side) all that leaves religious people is a god of the gaps.