The Avengers The Avengers: News and Speculation - Part 27A sub-se - - - - - - Part 15

[Poni_Boy]

I hated the idea from the get-go that we could ever see Skrulls changing into the heroes. I didn't want to see them fighting themselves.

Without a doubt that would be way too confusing for the general audience. Even when that happened in Secret Invasion a lot of fans didn't like it. Marvel won't take a chance to do it on a large scale. Now, minor characters are a different story

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Yeah Poni-boy, that is a flawed argument. It's not aesthetics that seperates them, it's the fact that they ARE different races. Hence the different name, look, context and background. They were referenced to once as Skrulls in an issue of Ultimates, which was retconned in Ultimate F4 when actual 616 looking Skrulls showed up and debunked it.

Both Skrulls and Chitauri serve the same purpose as far as narrative goes, sure, but that doesn't make them by definition the same. Nor does your Hawkeye comparison make sense. They are the same character in name but are both different versions, and deliberately so.

 

[Xeno]

umm can you name a few? Kree... nope, Shi'ar... nope, inhumans... nope, brood... nope.. they're more "invasion of the body snatchers", the Badoon... nope, the watchers... nope, the celestials... powers very.. but would have little need to infiltrate earth, the beyonders... well technically "the beyonder" was a self aware cosmic cube and could do anything, Dire Wraith's can shape shift... but are not humanoid, the phalanx have shape shifting ability... but not in the "mystique" type of way.. more like morphing hands into weapons, Rigellians.. nope, Symbiotes... only with hosts (but are owned by sony), Technarchy... nope, Spacephantom.. yes.

the bold are the only ones that have shape shifting abilities... but half are probably owned by other studios (Symbiotes, Phalanx, and Technarchy) and other than the beyonder... none of the other's really make any sense.

Here's my chance to point out that while the Kree are not shapeshifters, they have infiltrated human society on more than one occasion. The original Captain Marvel assumed the identity of a deceased NASA scientist on his first mission to Earth, which was to sabotage the development of spaceflight technology. The Kree also stationed Sentry 459 on Earth and it attempted to wipe out all life on the planet once the FF encountered it. And their scientists genetically manipulated the Inhumans in experiments designed to help enhance their own weakened DNA. So it's fair to say that the Kree have a history of infiltrating and influencing human society that stretches back many millennia.

 

[Iceman]

Yeah, I don't think it's a good idea for any major heroes to be changing into Skrulls as it makes it difficult to then get fully behind them later never knowing if they might be Skrulls or not.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

See, now you're confused. It's canon that the Skrulls are simply the Ultimate version of the Skrulls. Even in the Ultimate comics they confirmed that the Chi Tauri are known by many different names, one of the being Skrulls.

And the statements "no one wants them" and "they suck" are only your opinion so don't try to project that onto the entire fanbase. Plenty of people would love to see a Skrull infiltration as long as it's done properly and not just a standard issue alien invasion plot.

they're as much to skrulls as the Inhumans are Kree... related to.. or the fact they're the "ultimate skrulls" does not matter.

 

[Iceman]

Yeah, I don't think it's a good idea for any major heroes to be changing into Skrulls as it makes it difficult to then get fully behind them later never knowing if they might be Skrulls or not.

 

[Aesop Rocks]

loledit

 

[Aesop Rocks]

So guys, this movie.....

Not lookin' too sexy. At least not yet.

I'mma save my judgement until a teaser tho.

The battle scenes being shot look really nice.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Here's my chance to point out that while the Kree are not shapeshifters, they have infiltrated human society on more than one occasion. The original Captain Marvel assumed the identity of a deceased NASA scientist on his forst mission to Earth, which was to sabotage the development of spaceflight technology. The Kree also stationed Sentry 459 on Earth and it attempted to wipe out all life on the planet once the FF encountered it. And their scientists genetically manipulated the Inhumans in experiments designed to help enhance their own weakened DNA. So it's fair to say that the Kree have a history of infiltrating and influencing human society that stretches back many millennia.

I do not disagree with this. I was just listing "shapeshifting aliens" I really will only be happy (most likely) if the "alien race" is the kree or skrulls.. nothing else makes real sense to bring into the Avenger's mythos.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Really? Not looking sexy? Based on set photos with Cap fighting guys in pyjamas?

 

[Iceman]

So guys, this movie.....

Not lookin' too sexy. At least not yet.

I'mma save my judgement until a teaser tho.

The battle scenes being shot look really nice.

We haven't exactly seen anything significant yet lol. Very good of you to defer judgement!

 

[Aesop Rocks]

Just not really clicking with me yet. I love the suit, I do, but I just don't really feel it. That and I hate cape-less Thor.

He's like Dog The Bounty Hunter or some stupid ****.

 

[Chewy]

Really? Not looking sexy? Based on set photos with Cap fighting guys in pyjamas?

Way too much clothing

 

[Poni_Boy]

Yeah Poni-boy, that is a flawed argument. It's not aesthetics that seperates them, it's the fact that they ARE different races. Hence the different name, look, context and background. They were referenced to once as Skrulls in an issue of Ultimates, which was retconned in Ultimate F4 when actual 616 looking Skrulls showed up and debunked it.

Both Skrulls and Chitauri serve the same purpose as far as narrative goes, sure, but that doesn't make them by definition the same. Nor does your Hawkeye comparison make sense. They are the same character in name but are both different versions, and deliberately so.

Not quite. The Skrulls that showed up in the U FF issue did so in an alternate timeline (and they were not shape shifters), and said they didn't like being associated with the Chi Tauri whom they considered terrorists. Considering that no where in the Ultimate U was it retconned, Herr Kleiser stated that they have been known as 'Skrulls' and that the conversation with Reed Richards took place in an alternate timeline, there is no definite separation of the two species (i.e. the Nazi's saying they don't want to be associated with Hydra because they consider them terrorists doesn't change that Hydra came from the Nazi Regime). Also consider that the Chi Tauri's true form has yet to be revealed in the Ultimate U.

 

[Chewy]

Just not really clicking with me yet. I love the suit, I do, but I just don't really feel it. That and I hate cape-less Thor.

He's like Dog The Bounty Hunter or some stupid ****.

Then it's a good thing Thor has his cape

 

[Poni_Boy]

I do not disagree with this. I was just listing "shapeshifting aliens" I really will only be happy (most likely) if the "alien race" is the kree or skrulls.. nothing else makes real sense to bring into the Avenger's mythos.

Yes, there is. When you see it it'll make sense. Best I can say is that the small group of invaders don't all look alike.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

The only reason I would be annoyed with them not having the 616 iteration of the Skrulls, is then if they DO plan on bringing Mar-Vell to the MCU, it will change the whole dynamic of the Kree/Skrull war, if they want to keep the Kree looking humanoid.

That said, as iconic as the 616 Skrull are to us fans, there is no real reason for them to look humanoid. It serves a much more interesting purpose, on a narrative level and also a biological level, for a shapeshifting form like that, especially alien in nature, to NOT resemble the things it is trying to pass as. That is to say, having the reveal of a human to revert back to 'Skrull' would be far less dramatic, and probably believable, if it still just looks like a person but green.

It does pain me to admit that, especially since it would get rid of that iconic scene we've seen so many times, with Nick Fury and co. standing round a morgue slab, looking at someone they recognise in Skrull form.

But if at worst, instead of a 616 thing, we get some scenes like Natasha and Clint taking out a 'sleeper cell' and the air base fight in Ultimates 2, then that still isn't a bad thing. That would make one epically awesome movie.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Yes, there is. When you see it it'll make sense. Best I can say is that the small group of invaders don't all look alike.

that is A) if we believe you and B) like whatever you think it is... right now you just get me nothing but angry...

 

[spideyboy_1111]

The only reason I would be annoyed with them not having the 616 iteration of the Skrulls, is then if they DO plan on bringing Mar-Vell to the MCU, it will change the whole dynamic of the Kree/Skrull war, if they want to keep the Kree looking humanoid.

That said, as iconic as the 616 Skrull are to us fans, there is no real reason for them to look humanoid. It serves a much more interesting purpose, on a narrative level and also a biological level, for a shapeshifting form like that, especially alien in nature, to NOT resemble the things it is trying to pass as. That is to say, having the reveal of a human to revert back to 'Skrull' would be far less dramatic, and probably believable, if it still just looks like a person but green.

It does pain me to admit that, especially since it would get rid of that iconic scene we've seen so many times, with Nick Fury and co. standing round a morgue slab, looking at someone they recognise in Skrull form.

But if at worst, instead of a 616 thing, we get some scenes like Natasha and Clint taking out a 'sleeper cell' and the air base fight in Ultimates 2, then that still isn't a bad thing. That would make one epically awesome movie.

meh, but not all aliens have to look like insects, jellyfish, or octopi... either. It's widely accepted in the Star Trek and Star Wars universes... why not in the marvel? Also... at least with the Skrulls a great explanation would be that they choose to look like 616 skrulls because they worship the Titan... Thanos.

 

[Poni_Boy]

The only reason I would be annoyed with them not having the 616 iteration of the Skrulls, is then if they DO plan on bringing Mar-Vell to the MCU, it will change the whole dynamic of the Kree/Skrull war, if they want to keep the Kree looking humanoid.

That said, as iconic as the 616 Skrull are to us fans, there is no real reason for them to look humanoid. It serves a much more interesting purpose, on a narrative level and also a biological level, for a shapeshifting form like that, especially alien in nature, to NOT resemble the things it is trying to pass as. That is to say, having the reveal of a human to revert back to 'Skrull' would be far less dramatic, and probably believable, if it still just looks like a person but green.

It does pain me to admit that, especially since it would get rid of that iconic scene we've seen so many times, with Nick Fury and co. standing round a morgue slab, looking at someone they recognise in Skrull form.

But if at worst, instead of a 616 thing, we get some scenes like Natasha and Clint taking out a 'sleeper cell' and the air base fight in Ultimates 2, then that still isn't a bad thing. That would make one epically awesome movie.

Personally I like the 616 Skrulls. But, from a general moviegoing perspective I can understand if the Kree are the humanoid looking ones while the Skrulls are very different (more menacing?) so people can easily relate to the good guys.

I don't know, the possibilities are really endless. But I think the more humanoid alien species that come into the picture the more confusing it'll get.

 

[Aesop Rocks]

Then it's a good thing Thor has his cape

"Hey Loki brah, you can't keep livin' your life like this, brah. You gotta come back to Asgard with us to get some help brah. The frost giants aren't your friends brah. Come back with me and we'll get your life on track. Here's a cigarette now let's pray brah".

 

[spideyboy_1111]

"Hey Loki brah, you can't keep livin' your life like this, brah. You gotta come back to Asgard with us to get some help brah. The frost giants aren't your friends brah. Come back with me and we'll get your life on track. Here's a cigarette now let's pray brah".

umm... what makes him look like he'd talk like that? surely it's quite ridiculous to say a cape changes all that... Thor has long hair and is sleeveless in most comic incarnations.... soooooo not really seeing much of a change. Though.. i do find the Dog the Bounty Hunter jokes humerus.. but how else would you want him to look? cape isn't practical to wear non-stop.

 

[Aesop Rocks]

umm... what makes him look like he'd talk like that? surely it's quite ridiculous to say a cape changes all that... Thor has long hair and is sleeveless in most comic incarnations.... soooooo not really seeing much of a change. Though.. i do find the Dog the Bounty Hunter jokes humerus.. but how else would you want him to look? cape isn't practical to wear non-stop.

Well, I don't want him to look like a goddamn idiot for one. I hate sleeveless Thor so much.

Also, he'd be talking like that because Dog The Bounty Hunter is his human alter-ego. DUHHHHHHH

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Thor was essentially a 70's surfer dude when he was first created anyway, a little late to that observation lol.

meh, but not all aliens have to look like insects, jellyfish, or octopi... either. It's widely accepted in the Star Trek and Star Wars universes... why not in the marvel? Also... at least with the Skrulls a great explanation would be that they choose to look like 616 skrulls because they worship the Titan... Thanos.

See, thats a silly observation, simply because I would say most of the classic, iconic alien races in sci-fi series ARE humanoid. Sure it can work, but unfortunately it can also come off looking like it's purely the case out of convenience. I don't know if you've watched Dr Who, but there are some GREAT shapeshifting concepts in that series that feel interesting, it'd be nice to see the same thing in this.

Like I said before, as a standalone concept, I'm fine with this version of the aliens, because Ultimates 2's story was very cool, but my main concern is simply how that would affect the further cosmic inclusions of Kree, Thanos, Kang, anything like that.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

it really shouldn't be hard to pull off realistic creepy alien versions of this....