The Avengers The Avengers: News and Speculation - Part 27A sub-se - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 28

[R_Hythlodeus]

Okay, here’s a question for everyone that I’ve been meaning to ask:

In your opinion folks, would you guys still look at the MCU films as favorably as you do now IF none of them were leading up to the Avengers, and were treated as standalone films that were unrelated to the Avengers universe like the rest of the Marvel films have been? Personally, I enjoy them for what they are though I’ve often asked myself if these films would be as strong as they are now if they didn’t have the large MCU to stand on as well.

I’m not trying to say that these films are bad by any means, or that they didn’t have solid stories of their own that didn’t directly relate to the Avengers, I’m just saying that when I think about some of the past Marvel films that weren’t a part of the MCU, I wonder if more scope and bigger threat levels could have been added to some of these films if the concern of saving a global threat for an Avengers film wasn’t a issue.

IMO all of the films stand on their own. If there wasn't an Avengers movie in the making and the MCU wouldn't exist it wouldn't matter, because then I'd be more hyped for the various sequels. I absolutely love the ending of Thor and want to know what happens to that loose threads.

 

[Herolee10]

IMO all of the films stand on their own. If there wasn't an Avengers movie in the making and the MCU wouldn't exist it wouldn't matter, because then I'd be more hyped for the various sequels. I absolutely love the ending of Thor and want to know what happens to that loose threads.

No doubt about it;

In my opinion, it’s just that I’ve always wondered if some of these films would have been allowed to have a bigger scope of danger though presented to Earth as a whole if they weren’t saving that global threat for the Avengers.

Story wise, I agree that Iron man 1, Thor, CA, even the Hulk, stood on their own as standalones.

Iron Man 2, well maybe I’m bias since I had wanted them go down the route of “demon in the bottle” story.lol

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

the first movies of a franchise seldom use the biggest threat or else you can't top it for the sequel. Or you have to invent a ridiculous epic threat for the sequel. while there are lots of exceptions of that rule, I guess the threat levels and the scope for thor, IM or cap were okay for origin movies. I remember enough movies that were worse.

 

[Herolee10]

the first movies of a franchise seldom use the biggest threat or else you can't top it for the sequel. Or you have to invent a ridiculous epic threat for the sequel. while there are lots of exceptions of that rule, I guess the threat levels and the scope for thor, IM or cap were okay for origin movies. I remember enough movies that were worse.

True that is a good point

Truth be told, CA’s threat did deal with the entire world being at risk due to the Red Skull’s plans and Iron Man 1 featured Tony’s start on his own war on the terrorism in the form of the Ten Rings in the Middle East.

Though with Iron Man 2; the threat level there was, imho, mainly just aimed at Tony and his family’s legacy of the Stark Expo (with anyone being there also at risk).

I guess it’s just Thor’s one then that had little to do with any part of Earth really being at risk from Loki since he had only sent the Destroyer to kill the Warriors three, Sif, and Thor and didn’t have any interest in Earth at the time.

 

[C. Lee]

Here's a reminder to everyone ------

Discuss, debate, and argue civilly......there is absolutely no call for name calling or being rude.

 

[Rock Sexton]

No doubt about it;

In my opinion, it’s just that I’ve always wondered if some of these films would have been allowed to have a bigger scope of danger though presented to Earth as a whole if they weren’t saving that global threat for the Avengers.

Story wise, I agree that Iron man 1, Thor, CA, even the Hulk, stood on their own as standalones.

Iron Man 2, well maybe I’m bias since I had wanted them go down the route of “demon in the bottle” story.lol

It goes without saying that some of these films could've had a bigger scope. The one in particular that stands out is Captain America. That story could've span 3 films .... truly flesh out the Cap/Skull rivalry, sort've like Skywalker and Darth Vader. I never got that "two arch nemesis headed on a collision course" feel because of it.

Ah well. Still most likely gonna enjoy the shat out of the Avengers.

 

[Herolee10]

It goes without saying that some of these films could've had a bigger scope. The one in particular that stands out is Captain America. That story could've span 3 films .... truly building out the Cap/Skull rivalry, sort've like Skywalker and Darth Vader. I never got that "two arch nemesis headed on a collision course" feel because of it.

Ah well. Still most likely gonna enjoy the shat out of the Avengers.

I do remember recently reading on how the screenwriters mentioned that by the end of the first film, they needed to establish that CA was a competent leader, enough to supposedly lead the Avengers.

But yeah; I see what you’re saying about having so much material in the film that could have gone on for more than 1 film without a doubt (and truth be told, I wasn’t a fan on how some of the locations in the action montage that was supposed to take over the course of years, looked like they were either mainly filmed in the same places, or were created with a green screen behind of the actors).

If anything, if Captain America was released before Iron Man, it would be his film that could have been helped with a sequel going into the Avengers instead of iron Man imho.

 

[Verbal21]

Do people honestly see a Cap trilogy completely taking place in the 1940's? I honestly don't and am glad they're not doing it that way

 

[Spider-Vader]

Why is everyone hating on Cap? It wasn't supposed to be some "deep" film that made you think. It was supposed to be a throw back to classic adventure movies, & it succeeded in that. The movie was incredibly fun & entertaining, it was the definition of a good popcorn movie. Plus, it got the character of Steve Rogers near perfectly.

Yes, I think the WW2 story could of been expanded. But I'm incredibly happy with what we got. Though, I'd have two movies in WW2 instead of three. Baron Zemo being the villain of the first movie, with Skull in the sequel.

 

[Bryn]

Do people honestly see a Cap trilogy completely taking place in the 1940's? I honestly don't and am glad they're not doing it that way

I did think a trilogy would be perfect for Cap. I thought an origin in the 40s (of course), in which he would get more secret missions before becoming Cap (although the rogue cap scene in the movie is one of my favorite parts). Then, a master plot formed by the Red Skull and Steve helps to stop it. End with him going to London where he meets the Invaders (or something). I thought a 2nd movie in the 40s with the Invaders would have been cool. Have him still chasing the Red Skull, but meeting up with Dr. Faustus or Zemo or something (or if they wanted to do something REALLY different, Baron Blood). Then the third movie could have been a climactic fight with the skull and cap getting frozen.

But they did a great job with the one movie. I have to hand it to Joe Johnson and the rest involved. I really enjoyed the movie. Saw it twice and can't wait for the DVD.

 

[Rock Sexton]

Do people honestly see a Cap trilogy completely taking place in the 1940's? I honestly don't and am glad they're not doing it that way

I could easily see it. Sorry you can't.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

IMO all of the films stand on their own. If there wasn't an Avengers movie in the making and the MCU wouldn't exist it wouldn't matter, because then I'd be more hyped for the various sequels. I absolutely love the ending of Thor and want to know what happens to that loose threads.

Well said!

 

[Rock Sexton]

Why is everyone hating on Cap? It wasn't supposed to be some "deep" film that made you think. It was supposed to be a throw back to classic adventure movies, & it succeeded in that. The movie was incredibly fun & entertaining, it was the definition of a good popcorn movie. Plus, it got the character of Steve Rogers near perfectly.

Yes, I think the WW2 story could of been expanded. But I'm incredibly happy with what we got. Though, I'd have two movies in WW2 instead of three. Baron Zemo being the villain of the first movie, with Skull in the sequel.

Who said anything about "thinking"???

Some of us are discussing how it would've played out as a trilogy.

 

[Spider-Vader]

Who said anything about "thinking"???

Some of us are discussing how it would've played out as a trilogy.

Some guy on the last page or so complained about how it wasn't deep enough. Comparing it to X2 or TDK. I was aiming that comment at him.

 

[CustomFib]

If yall could go back and do the movies over in a different order would yall have released them in chronological order leading up to the avengers, as in release Cap, then IM, ect..or would you leave them in the order they are in today?

 

[TheDragonator]

I still hope that Avengers will outgross TDK.

 

[GoblinWhirlwind]

I could easily see it. Sorry you can't.

I could too... honestly I would've chosen 2 Cap movies so far over 2 IM movies myself. But if Cap had gotten a WW2 trilogy and he wasn't frozen until the end of the third one, Avengers wouldn't be out until 2016 or something. Of course, everything would probably have started differently and be in a different order had that been the case.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

edit - nvm

 

[CustomFib]

IMO all of the films stand on their own. If there wasn't an Avengers movie in the making and the MCU wouldn't exist it wouldn't matter, because then I'd be more hyped for the various sequels. I absolutely love the ending of Thor and want to know what happens to that loose threads.

Agreed!

 

[BobbyCorwin88]

Why is everyone hating on Cap? It wasn't supposed to be some "deep" film that made you think. It was supposed to be a throw back to classic adventure movies, & it succeeded in that. The movie was incredibly fun & entertaining, it was the definition of a good popcorn movie. Plus, it got the character of Steve Rogers near perfectly.

Yes, I think the WW2 story could of been expanded. But I'm incredibly happy with what we got. Though, I'd have two movies in WW2 instead of three. Baron Zemo being the villain of the first movie, with Skull in the sequel.

Cap is a deep character though. There's so much more to him than what we got in TFA. The first act was great, sure, but it didn't hold up throughout. I wish I could agree with you on it just being a good adventure movie, but I sure as heck didn't see it that way at all. It moved too quick and did too little.

Did you see the deleted scene they just recently released? It was only about a minute and a half long and I learned more about the Howling Commandos in that amount of time then the rest of the film put together. Little stuff like that is what disappointed me about TFA.

 

[RealIrOnMaN]

Finally saw the deleted scene on Cap's DVD called "There's a place for you here", which is basically an extended version of Fury & Steve's meeting at the end of the movie.

To be honest, I'm really glad, that Joe & Joss (since he wrote the dialogue & directed the scene) decided to cut it. It felt a little bit forced & weak, though it explained some details & etc. Here, take a look:

Spoiler

Fury: "At ease, soldier!"
Steve: "Who are you?"
Fury: "Colonel Nick Fury, Director of S.H.I.E.L.D. You would've known us as a Strategic Scientific Reserve.

Steve: "Where am I?"
Fury: "46th & Broadway. I'm sorry about that little show back there, but we didn't know what your mental state might be, so we thought, it best to break it to you slowly."
Steve: "Break what?!"
Fury: "You've been asleep, Cap. For almost 70 years."

Steve: "How am I alive?"
Fury: "Well, to be honest with you, we don't really know. My docs say it was suspended animation. Could be doctor Erskine's formula, the extreme cold, I don't know."

Steve: "What about the war?! Did we win?!"
Fury: "Hell yes, unconditional surrender! Taking down Hydra was a big part of that! But the world hasn't changed all that much, there's still a lot of work to be done. A soldier's work."

Fury: "The world can still use a man like you, Cap!"

*Steve & Fury shake hands*

Fury: "There's a place here, for you. Sure you're alright?!"
Steve: "Yeah, yeah... I just... I just had a date."

 

[Son of Coul]

Damn, that would've sucked. Glad they cut it down.

Cap: "How am I alive?"
Audience: "Yeah wait, how is he alive?"
Nick Fury: "I dunno. Science, maybe?"
Audience: "What the ****"

 

[BobbyCorwin88]

Wait, why cut that out again? I didn't see anything wrong with it.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

because it raises more questions than it answers. I already had several friends ask me how he survived for 70 years. I had to explain it to them.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

Some guy on the last page or some complained about how it wasn't deep enough. Comparing it to X2 or TDK.

That would be me.

It wasn't supposed to be some "deep" film that made you think.

Are you really defending Cap by saying it was supposed to be just mindless popcorn with no depth at all? To each his own, but there will never come a day when I want my CBMs to be popcorn nor that I approve of CBMs being made with that "creative" motivation.