The Avengers The Avengers: News and Speculation - Part 27A sub-se - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

[Splat]

Rulk has gotten better since the reveal for me. I think it's cool having a military man with that much power.

 

[Quasimod0]

He's not too bad. I'm glad to have some sort of hulk on the avengers team

 

[metaphysician]

I only ask because I was looking for some vulnerability in the character. People complain that Superman is overpowered and I tend to agree. Thor gets some of the same criticism, but my reply has always been that he can be beaten with magic. If a character isn't vulnerable to anything, then that makes for a boring character (IMO). There's no tension on the part of the reader because you know the guy is going to win out in the end. All superheroes need some sort of failing. It's what makes them, and their stories, interesting.

That's the thing. Thor isn't vulnerable to, say, street level types with guns and fists. This doesn't interfere with his ability to have good stories, because he doesn't *deal* with street level types with guns and fists. He deals with world-threatening superhuman power houses, mythical gods and monsters, and Avengers business.

The tension is produced, not by arbitrary invokable weaknesses, but by simply not granting him infinite capacity. A sufficiently strong opponent can hurt him, or even kill him, just by virtue of being powerful in their own right. Which Thor has in large quantities in his rogues gallery, never mind the greater setting. For all his power, he has a lot of villains, even recurring ones, who out power him, sometimes by a *long* margin.

The problem that Superman has is that, for a large portion of his existence, he was written as not merely powerful, but functionally invincible, capable of doing literally anything he wanted to any magnitude desired. Hence the need for arbitrary weaknesses that totally hosed him. The fact that he hung around Earth, and often spent time fighting challenges vastly beneath his power level, didn't help.

 

[metaphysician]

And speaking more generally, yeah, we are slightly talking passed each other. There are two meanings of the word "weakness" here:

1. Character elements that can be exploited by an enemy, or otherwise produce complications. These, Thor certainly has: he's arrogant at times, definitely straightforward, not a genius, and has divided loyalties between Earth and Asgard.

2. Arbitrary Kryptonite style vulnerabilities, that magically cripple the character in some way. These, he doesn't have, not since losing the whole Donald Blake alternate identity. IMO, this is for the better, as arbitrary vulnerabilities are usually used as a crutch by the writer to avoid having to produce legitimately challenging opposition.

Oh, and actually, Mjolnir *is* susceptible to sufficient magnetic force. We know this because Magneto has managed to beat Thor by yanking away Mjolnir magnetically and walloping Thor with it. Its not a sure thing, and there are probably counters ( Magneto certainly isn't worthy, and certainly shouldn't be able to tap any of its power ), but its not immune to magnetism. That said, Thor has also beaten Magneto by magically draining away his magnetic energy, including his shields, so a fight between them is something of a draw ( or a coin toss between who pulls their fight-ending move first ).

 

[MrGreen]

And speaking more generally, yeah, we are slightly talking passed each other. There are two meanings of the word "weakness" here:

1. Character elements that can be exploited by an enemy, or otherwise produce complications. These, Thor certainly has: he's arrogant at times, definitely straightforward, not a genius, and has divided loyalties between Earth and Asgard.

2. Arbitrary Kryptonite style vulnerabilities, that magically cripple the character in some way. These, he doesn't have, not since losing the whole Donald Blake alternate identity. IMO, this is for the better, as arbitrary vulnerabilities are usually used as a crutch by the writer to avoid having to produce legitimately challenging opposition.

Oh, and actually, Mjolnir *is* susceptible to sufficient magnetic force. We know this because Magneto has managed to beat Thor by yanking away Mjolnir magnetically and walloping Thor with it. Its not a sure thing, and there are probably counters ( Magneto certainly isn't worthy, and certainly shouldn't be able to tap any of its power ), but its not immune to magnetism. That said, Thor has also beaten Magneto by magically draining away his magnetic energy, including his shields, so a fight between them is something of a draw ( or a coin toss between who pulls their fight-ending move first ).

Quick random question: Who do you think would be worthy of Mjolnir in Marvel Universe?
I don't read too much marvel comics, just Hulk and Rulk

 

[Captain Marvel]

Captain America at least has proven to be worthy.

 

[MrGreen]

Captain America at least has proven to be worthy.

is he the only one?

 

[Shadowlord X]

Rulk has gotten better since the reveal for me. I think it's cool having a military man with that much power.

I think RULK has become really popular so expect him to be around fo a while.

Has he been sighted since Fear Itself and that epic level GTFO hit from hammered-up THING?

(not reading regularly; just some trades)

 

[MrGreen]

I think RULK has become really popular so expect him to be around fo a while.

Has he been sighted since Fear Itself and that epic level GTFO hit from hammered-up THING?

(not reading regularly; just some trades)

Yes, the series goes on and, as I said, is personal opinion but I don't like him that much. He LOOKS cool but I haven't read anything good with him. Hulk in arabia was ok (way better than Loeb's run).

Maybe its that I'm still mad at Marvel for taking that [BLACKOUT]Ross' LMD [/BLACKOUT] route. To me, it just came up as a cheap solution.

And I'm still mad at Marvel for Norton.
just saying

 

[Obi-Ron]

I still say the red Hulk is Marvel's Poochie.

 

[Kirmit]

Not to mention the question of where the heck the mustache goes?!?

 

[MrGreen]

Not to mention why question of where the heck the mustache goes?!?

Because Banner never got bald when he transforms into Hulk. It is only logical to ask where does the mustache goes?

 

[wobbly]

is he the only one?

In the current timeline there's also Beta Ray Bill (and Eric Masterson in the past).

The few others have been other big Asgardian Gods (Odin) and a couple of future stories had other weilders as well (Dargo Ktor and Spider-Man 2099).

 

[Kirmit]

Because Banner never got bald when he transforms into Hulk. It is only logical to ask where does the mustache goes?

That's what I'm saying, I know marvel used the mustache as a fake out as to trick us into thinking he wasn't Rulk but the fact it disappears and reappears is just dumb IMO, even dumber than the magically growing pants that everyone moans about.

 

[Gamma Burst]

And speaking more generally, yeah, we are slightly talking passed each other. There are two meanings of the word "weakness" here:

1. Character elements that can be exploited by an enemy, or otherwise produce complications. These, Thor certainly has: he's arrogant at times, definitely straightforward, not a genius, and has divided loyalties between Earth and Asgard.

2. Arbitrary Kryptonite style vulnerabilities, that magically cripple the character in some way. These, he doesn't have, not since losing the whole Donald Blake alternate identity. IMO, this is for the better, as arbitrary vulnerabilities are usually used as a crutch by the writer to avoid having to produce legitimately challenging opposition.

Oh, and actually, Mjolnir *is* susceptible to sufficient magnetic force. We know this because Magneto has managed to beat Thor by yanking away Mjolnir magnetically and walloping Thor with it. Its not a sure thing, and there are probably counters ( Magneto certainly isn't worthy, and certainly shouldn't be able to tap any of its power ), but its not immune to magnetism. That said, Thor has also beaten Magneto by magically draining away his magnetic energy, including his shields, so a fight between them is something of a draw ( or a coin toss between who pulls their fight-ending move first ).

Magneto has never beaten Thor in the regular MU. On the other hand, Thor beat him, as you've stated.

 

[MrGreen]

That's what I'm saying, I know marvel used the mustache as a fake out as to trick us into thinking he wasn't Rulk but the fact it disappears and reappears is just dumb IMO, even dumber than the magically growing pants that everyone moans about.

Nice to know I'm not the only one. Like I said I think they originally wanted [BLACKOUT]Samson[/BLACKOUT] but everybody found out and used the LMD stuff

 

[Flemm]

The tension is produced, not by arbitrary invokable weaknesses, but by simply not granting him infinite capacity. A sufficiently strong opponent can hurt him, or even kill him, just by virtue of being powerful in their own right. Which Thor has in large quantities in his rogues gallery, never mind the greater setting. For all his power, he has a lot of villains, even recurring ones, who out power him, sometimes by a *long* margin.

Good points, I think it's also a question of what makes the character work on a very basic level, what is the core concept?

Thor is a god, sure, but a Norse god, and the basic concept of that mythology is a struggle against the inevitable end of Ragnorok. So, Thor is a character who is very powerful, yes, but whose very existence implies facing overwhelming odds, even inevitable defeat.

It's one reason why he has a great rogues gallery, it's not hard to come up with good enemies for him, since nothing about the character's basic concept rules out the idea of even more powerful enemies.

You don't really have that with a lot of the other characters in the same power class. Thor is really more like Captain America in his basic concept (nobility, fighting an uphill battle against impossible odds, never say die) than he is like Hulk or Superman, though he is a "power" character like those two. I think that's why Thor and Cap have always made natural allies.

I also think that's why Thor doesn't really need the articifial *weakness* of reverting to Blake (or another of his alter egos) after 60 seconds of being separated from Mjolnir, though that was originally how it worked.

 

[Smashlilman]

That's what I'm saying, I know marvel used the mustache as a fake out as to trick us into thinking he wasn't Rulk but the fact it disappears and reappears is just dumb IMO, even dumber than the magically growing pants that everyone moans about.

I just assume that it recedes into this lip. t:

 

[DyeLorean]

34 days

 

[Sebastos]

34 days and counting

 

[metaphysician]

In the current timeline there's also Beta Ray Bill (and Eric Masterson in the past).

The few others have been other big Asgardian Gods (Odin) and a couple of future stories had other weilders as well (Dargo Ktor and Spider-Man 2099).

You've pretty much covered it. Also, I don't think Eric Masterson was inherently worthy, it was a side effect of the. . . confusing mess of a plot that was ultimately Loki's fault.

For that matter, Odin isn't "worthy", its just that he's a Skyfather, and the guy who made the hammer, he can do with it what he likes. He's the guy who placed the "worthiness" requirement on it, after all.

 

[metaphysician]

Good points, I think it's also a question of what makes the character work on a very basic level, what is the core concept?

Thor is a god, sure, but a Norse god, and the basic concept of that mythology is a struggle against the inevitable end of Ragnorok. So, Thor is a character who is very powerful, yes, but whose very existence implies facing overwhelming odds, even inevitable defeat.

It's one reason why he has a great rogues gallery, it's not hard to come up with good enemies for him, since nothing about the character's basic concept rules out the idea of even more powerful enemies.

You don't really have that with a lot of the other characters in the same power class. Thor is really more like Captain America in his basic concept (nobility, fighting an uphill battle against impossible odds, never say die) than he is like Hulk or Superman, though he is a "power" character like those two. I think that's why Thor and Cap have always made natural allies.

I also think that's why Thor doesn't really need the articifial *weakness* of reverting to Blake (or another of his alter egos) after 60 seconds of being separated from Mjolnir, though that was originally how it worked.

I don't totally agree; lots of Marvel heroes have very strong rogues galleries, often with much more powerful villains in them. Thor is notable in that the power curve goes way up, but honestly, this is true of all the other cosmic hero types; Dr Strange and the Silver Surfer both have rogues galleries that are at least as powerful if not moreso.

Its just part of the general dynamic Marvel uses: heroes face off against villains that are more powerful than them, requiring the hero to fully tap their courage, cunning, and selflessness to achieve victory.

 

[mara]

I don't totally agree; lots of Marvel heroes have very strong rogues galleries, often with much more powerful villains in them. Thor is notable in that the power curve goes way up, but honestly, this is true of all the other cosmic hero types; Dr Strange and the Silver Surfer both have rogues galleries that are at least as powerful if not moreso.

Its just part of the general dynamic Marvel uses: heroes face off against villains that are more powerful than them, requiring the hero to fully tap their courage, cunning, and selflessness to achieve victory.

Well said!

 

[mara]

I have a random question, planning an avengers after party and we need advice for avengers themed drinking games? lol Totally random, I'm sorry. Can't think of a better place to ask. Any ideas?

 

[DyeLorean]

I have a random question, planning an avengers after party and we need advice for avengers themed drinking games? lol Totally random, I'm sorry. Can't think of any where better to ask. Any ideas?

Something like "drink a glass every time Iron Man opens the palm of his hand"?