The Avengers The Avengers: News and Speculation - Part 27A sub-se - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

[mara]

Someone mentioned a while back that it was completed if I recall correctly, maybe check back a few more pages.

 

[Raiden]

Sure is quiet 'round here......

Well, we have all the trailers we ever hoped for, and now it's less than two months away from TA. I'm extremely excited about the movie, but I think it is also normal to have the discussion hitting a slow patch every now and then.

 

[Incredible Hans]

That is not the point I dont think. Have these guys beat him? Yes, but some of them shouldn't be able to. In some comics, some of these guys have beaten Thor. HOWEVER, if we take Thor's written character into effect, all his abilities and strengths, and say, pit him bloodlusted, then it shouldn't be much of a fight, even against Hulk, also Doom, Magneto.

I'd say Doctor Doom can beat almost everybody, with preparation time and a master plan.

I don't know a story where Magneto beat Thor, but there was a story where Magneto fought all the Avengers at the same time (including Thor), and although Magneto was finally defeated, he gave them a good fight.

Hercules is Thor's equal, so he can surely beat him. So can Hulk.

Kurse is four times as strong as Thor is. Thor had no chance against him until Beta Ray Bill arrived. It took the combined power of two Thor-like warriors to defeat Kurse.

Crusader has beaten Thor, and in that story that win looked plausible (Crusader's power grows his confidence and his opponent's lack of confidence).

I know a lot of Thor stories and therefore a lot of Thor's powers and abilities. To me, Thor's defeats (there are not that much) don't look out of place.

 

[Incredible Hans]

You've pretty much covered it. Also, I don't think Eric Masterson was inherently worthy, it was a side effect of the. . . confusing mess of a plot that was ultimately Loki's fault.

For that matter, Odin isn't "worthy", its just that he's a Skyfather, and the guy who made the hammer, he can do with it what he likes. He's the guy who placed the "worthiness" requirement on it, after all.

Tiwaz (= Buri, Odin's grandfather) lifted the hammer, as did Superman in JLA vs Avengers.

Red Norvell could lift Mjolnir, but not because he was worthy, but because Odin overrode the worthy enchantment for him.

Thor once stated that Hercules would be worthy, but we don't know for sure as Hercules never tried.

 

[kedrell]

Didn't Hercules use the hammer during Civil War to destroy the Thor clone? And the Thor clone is another who was able to lift the hammer.

 

[mara]

I'd say Doctor Doom can beat almost everybody, with preparation time and a master plan.

I don't know a story where Magneto beat Thor, but there was a story where Magneto fought all the Avengers at the same time (including Thor), and although Magneto was finally defeated, he gave them a good fight.

Hercules is Thor's equal, so he can surely beat him. So can Hulk.

Kurse is four times as strong as Thor is. Thor had no chance against him until Beta Ray Bill arrived. It took the combined power of two Thor-like warriors to defeat Kurse.

Crusader has beaten Thor, and in that story that win looked plausible (Crusader's power grows his confidence and his opponent's lack of confidence).

I know a lot of Thor stories and therefore a lot of Thor's powers and abilities. To me, Thor's defeats (there are not that much) don't look out of place.

I almost saw that fight as match, almost. I remember Thor summoning lightning (without mjolnir) when it seemed like he was about to go down. Are we thinking of the same one?

EDIT: Wasn't there another fight that Thor actually lost because Odin interfered?

 

[Incredible Hans]

I almost saw that fight as match, almost. I remember Thor summoning lightning (without mjolnir) when it seemed like he was about to go down. Was there another another fight, or are we thinking of the same one?

They had a lot of fights.

It always look like they are equals. If they are using weapons, however, Thor has a slight advantage as Mjolnir is more powerful than Hercules' mace. If they fight unarmed, then Herc' got slightly better chances because he is a better wrestler.

But anyway, it ends almost always in a draw.

 

[BigThor]

I'd say Doctor Doom can beat almost everybody, with preparation time and a master plan.

Hercules is Thor's equal, so he can surely beat him. So can Hulk.

Well Thor's beaten Doctor Doom even with Doom being in his version of the Destroyer armor with Loki having to teleport Doom to safety before he was crushed.

Regarding Hercules you have to understand that they're equals in terms of strength and fighting skill, but when you factor in Thor's other abilities it really shouldn't even be close if he went all out.

 

[mara]

They had a lot of fights.

It always look like they are equals. If they are using weapons, however, Thor has a slight advantage as Mjolnir is more powerful than Hercules' mace. If they fight unarmed, then Herc' got slightly better chances because he is a better wrestler.

But anyway, it ends almost always in a draw.

I only recall a couple, gonna brush up now. I thought of another so I had to edit my post, sorry bout that.

 

[Incredible Hans]

Didn't Hercules use the hammer during Civil War to destroy the Thor clone? And the Thor clone is another who was able to lift the hammer.

AFAIK, the hammer that he Thor clone used wasn't Mjolnir but an electronic replica.

And I believe that beings without a soul like the Destroyer or robots were always able to lift Mjolnir.

(Well, not really always... there was a story where an alien race was not able to lift Mjolnir from the ground although they didn't try it themselves but let robot-like machines do it. But it just didn't work. A continuity error IMO.)

 

[Roose Bolton]

Question:
Can Thor at full strength,(let's say his power when he defeated those who sit above) defeat Skyfather Hercules ?

 

[mara]

Well Thor's beaten Doctor Doom even with Doom being in his version of the Destroyer armor with Loki having to teleport Doom to safety before he was crushed.

Regarding Hercules you have to understand that they're equals in terms of strength and fighting skill, when you factor in Thor's other abilities it really shouldn't even be close if he went all out.

That's what I'm thinking. His abilities are what keeps me from calling that one fight a match.

 

[Incredible Hans]

I only recall a couple, gonna brush up now. I thought of another so I had to edit my post, sorry bout that.

Buy this. It includes some of their greatest matches:

"Thor vs. Hercules [Paperback]
Collecting:
Journey into Mystery Annual #1; Thor (1966) #126, #221, #356, #400 (backup), #437, Annual #5; Thor: Blood Oath #3-4; Incredible Hercules #136"
http://www.amazon.com/Thor-vs-Hercu...9740/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1332485778&sr=8-1

 

[Danalys]

what's the story with olympus in the marvel universe is it treated much like asgard or is it more like where the inhumans live. read some hercules but it never came up.

 

[BigThor]

Question:
Can Thor at full strength,(let's say his power when he defeated those who sit above) defeat Skyfather Hercules ?

Yes, because Thor with the Odin Force is skyfather level but when he defeated Those Who Sit Above he was MUCH more powerful than a skyfather.

 

[mkilban2]

Sure.
Everyone should celebrate one way or another for the Avengers. Its just too big not to. t:

K.. it's a pant's party right?

 

[Incredible Hans]

Well Thor's beaten Doctor Doom even with Doom being in his version of the Destroyer armor with Loki having to teleport Doom to safety before he was crushed.

Regarding Hercules you have to understand that they're equals in terms of strength and fighting skill, when you factor in Thor's other abilities it really shouldn't even be close if he went all out.

There is one story that I would consider Doom beating Thor, although the key to victory was the 60 seconds enchantment.

Doom used a robot that contains a personal time machine. That robot "caught" Mjolnir and sent it back in time. After 60 seconds, Thor reverted to his mortal form. Doom went off. If he had stayed, he could have easily crushed Thor.

And I'd say that a lot of Mjolnir's abilites (like the God Blast) would never be used by Thor against Hercules because Thor would consider it dishonorable.
(BTW way, it is an interesting question if Mjolnir, who seems to have his own will, would consider it dishonorable too and simply not do it. Could be the reason why Thor can use the God Blast only against such foes like Galactus and Surtur')

 

[mara]

Buy this. It includes some of their greatest matches:

"Thor vs. Hercules [Paperback]
Collecting:
Journey into Mystery Annual #1; Thor (1966) #126, #221, #356, #400 (backup), #437, Annual #5; Thor: Blood Oath #3-4; Incredible Hercules #136"
http://www.amazon.com/Thor-vs-Hercu...9740/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1332485778&sr=8-1

Thank you! Gonna check Marvel Digital Unlimited first, hopefully they're all on there. A list is most helpful, thank you much.

 

[mara]

Yes, because Thor with the Odin Force is skyfather level but when he defeated Those Who Sit Above he was MUCH more powerful than a skyfather.

Correct me if I'm wrong, is that "Rune Thor"?

 

[Roose Bolton]

Yes, because Thor with the Odin Force is skyfather level but when he defeated Those Who Sit Above he was MUCH more powerful than a skyfather.

I really need to re-read that run.
I hope they decide to adapt that story for Thor 3.

 

[BigThor]

There is one story that I would consider Doom beating Thor, although the key to victory was the 60 seconds enchantment.

Doom used a robot that contains a personal time machine. That robot "caught" Mjolnir a sent it back in time. After 60 seconds, Thor reverted to his mortal form. Doom went off. If he had stayed, he could have easily crushed Thor.

And I'd say that a lot of Mjolnir's abilites (like the God Blast) would never be used by Thor against Hercules because Thor would consider it dishonorable.
(BTW way, it is an interesting question if Mjolnir, who seems to have his own will, would consider it dishonorable too and simply not do it. Could be the reason why Thor can use the God Blast only against such foes like Galactus and Surtur')

Yeah I wouldn't consider that a victory, just like I wouldn't consider someone using kryptonite against Superman a "victory".

Thor wouldn't have to use the Godblast against Hercules, because he's able to control the weather to the point of creating Hurricanes on a global scale.

Correct me if I'm wrong, is that "Rune Thor"?

You're correct, I like to call him "Rune King Thor" since he was also the king of Asgard at the time.

 

[mkilban2]

I have a question about the Civil War storyline in the comics. All i know about it is what's kinda touched on in the Ultimate Avengers game so i'm sure i know nothing. But while just researching a little I kinda wanna read it a little bit.

I saw theres like a Civil War #1-7 issues or something but then theres like 35 other things that say like Spider-Man:Civil War and Civil War: XMEN and like a bunch others like that. would I have to read ALL of those in order to fully know the story?

example: would i have to buy this http://www.amazon.com/Civil-War-Complete-Collection-Version/dp/B001259DRI in order to actually have fully read Civil War?


EDIT: I just found a nice torrent of the above mentioned comic book collection, if anyone is interested I could PM you the link if you'd like, don't really know if i should post it here or not.

 

[Incredible Hans]

I remember that in the old marvel roleplaying game from the 90s, Thor and Herc had identical physical stats (fighting skill, agility, strenght, energy) and identical body armour. Hercules had some martial arts/wrestling talents that Thor didn't have, and Thor had Mjolnir, of course. But many of Mjolnir's power weren't of much use against Hercules, so in that game it was always a well-balanced brawl.

Thor had better mental stats than Herc, however (intuion and psyche... the latter means willpower).

 

[mara]

Yeah I wouldn't consider that a victory, just like I wouldn't consider someone using kryptonite against Superman a "victory".

Thor wouldn't have to use the Godblast against Hercules, because he's able to control the weather to the point of creating Hurricanes on a global scale.



You're correct, I like to call him "Rune King Thor" since he was also the king of Asgard at the time.

Ok cool. I really liked that one. Was fantastic IMO.

 

[Incredible Hans]

Yeah I wouldn't consider that a victory, just like I wouldn't consider someone using kryptonite against Superman a "victory".

Thor wouldn't have to use the Godblast against Hercules, because he's able to control the weather to the point of creating Hurricanes on a global scale.

Even that could be considered dishonorable... and then again, Hercules towed Manhattan island so who knows if he can put a hurricane down with a mighty clap of his hands.t:

I agree that Doom's "victory" is a cheap victory. But I feel that Doom, depending on the author's creativity, can always build a machine that exploits the weakness of a certain hero in order to win. That's why I said with preparation time and planning, Doom can beat almost anybody.