The Avengers The Avengers Post Screening Review & Discussion Thread (SPOILER FILLED) - Part 3

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Hi guys... i have some question, you'll be nice if you can answer it

1- Does Iron man defeats the MIGHTY Thor? i mean, if this is truth, the i'ts very ridiculous.
or at leats in the fight is Thor seen as the more powerfull?

2- Is really epic the fight Hulk vs Thor?

3- Does Hulk fight against Iron man or cap? and if he's not... why? Do they weren't at that time?

Thank you

 

[McLovin]

Hi guys... i have some question, you'll be nice if you can answer it

1- Does Iron man defeats the MIGHTY Thor? i mean, if this is truth, the i'ts very ridiculous.
or at leats in the fight is Thor seen as the more powerfull?

2- Is really epic the fight Hulk vs Thor?

3- Does Hulk fight against Iron man or cap? and if he's not... why? Do they weren't at that time?

Thank you

No
No
And no

 

[McLovin]

Hey XENO
Why is Fury a Col in some series and a General in others
When & why was he promoted?

 

[cryptic name]

The **** is wrong with some of you people?

The War Machine issue is a legitimate question. There's several reasons that both fanboys and non-fanboys alike will be wondering where WM/Don Cheadle is in the film:

a) Rhodey is Tony Stark's right hand man. Even after he suited up as War Machine in IM2 and they traded licks, in the end, he comes back around and stands back to back with his bro and lays the smack down on Whiplash and an army of drones.

b) Pepper Potts is in it. You don't have to be a fanboy to ask why the hell Gwyneth gets a cameo, and Cheadle doesn't.

c) Earth is under attack, and Fury is putting together Earth's Mightiest Heroes to defend the planet. There is no conceivable reason whatsoever that Fury and SHIELD would not have considered War Machine a top prospect for just such an initiative.

d) War Machine is an Avenger. Some of you who posted that he *isn't* have never read an Avengers comic in your life. War Machine IS AN AVENGER. Mainline to a lesser extent, but he sure as hell was a MAJOR player in West Coast Avengers and Force Works. Hell, War Machine has a bigger claim to be a canonical Avenger than Hulk ever did.

e) And face it: War Machine is black. Yeah, so is Fury, but he's the leader and mentor in the film, an operational and logistics guy, rather than a front-line glory boy like the "true" Avengers. It sure as hell wouldn't hurt at the box office to include a "hero of color" or two just to reach out to audiences who might otherwise dismiss this movie as being just another comic book film targeted at white geeks. If nothing else, it's a missed opportunity for a broader demographic, and that's kinda surprising for Marvel when Feige's aim has been to reach beyond just the loyalists who dutifully watched all the prequel movies.


People can extrapolate and come up with all kinds of reasons War Machine wasn't on the front line in this movie, and you might even come up with some good ideas. But Joss apparently didn't bother, or else whatever mention he made of it wound up on the cutting room floor. And however slight or major you choose to make of it, it's still a disservice to comic book fans, to fans of the Iron Man movies, and definitely to Cheadle himself.

And on a personal note, I just want to say that I'm actually disgusted by the way a lot of you treated J Howlett on this issue and tried to act like he was "bat-trolling" for daring to bring up a legitimate question that he was genuinely concerned about. I've definitely seen my share of Nolanite "trolling" on this forum and many others, but the way you guys treated J Howlett makes you no better than the "Nolanite hordes" you always have fun bashing. The maturity level on these threads is usually a lot higher than this from you guys. Don't know why some of you felt compelled to lower your standards in here today.

/rant.

Maybe you should just make peace with the fact that War Machine is not in the movie and move on. As for your Point E...I don't get it, only white people like comic books? Or black nerds are only interested in black heroes?

 

[McLovin]

Maybe you should just make peace with the fact that War Machine is not in the movie and move on. As for your Point E...I don't get it, only white people like comic books? Or black nerds are only interested in black heroes?

Because BLANKMAN never hit it big?

 

[cryptic name]

Because BLANKMAN never hit it big?

True, he never really caught on. Meteor Man on the other hand...

 

[cryptic name]

Perhaps I should have said his "file". Peggy Carter and Col. Phillips had it at the end of CA: TFA.


Also, Steve Rogers is always referred to as "Captain Rogers," whether by civilians or SHIELD personnel. Col. Fury called him that, and as a former military officer himself he would be a stickler about rank. The display with the Captain America uniform in the Helicarrier is labeled "CPT STEVE ROGERS". And his Army uniform in CA: TFA had Captain's bars on the shoulders. What more proof do we need?

Does Cap have multiple masks/cowls in this movie? The one you can see there looks more like a mask than a helmet, and seems to have exposed ears, no chinstrap, etc.

 

[Xeno]

The **** is wrong with some of you people?

The War Machine issue is a legitimate question. There's several reasons that both fanboys and non-fanboys alike will be wondering where WM/Don Cheadle is in the film:

a) Rhodey is Tony Stark's right hand man. Even after he suited up as War Machine in IM2 and they traded licks, in the end, he comes back around and stands back to back with his bro and lays the smack down on Whiplash and an army of drones.

b) Pepper Potts is in it. You don't have to be a fanboy to ask why the hell Gwyneth gets a cameo, and Cheadle doesn't.

c) Earth is under attack, and Fury is putting together Earth's Mightiest Heroes to defend the planet. There is no conceivable reason whatsoever that Fury and SHIELD would not have considered War Machine a top prospect for just such an initiative.

d) War Machine is an Avenger. Some of you who posted that he *isn't* have never read an Avengers comic in your life. War Machine IS AN AVENGER. Mainline to a lesser extent, but he sure as hell was a MAJOR player in West Coast Avengers and Force Works. Hell, War Machine has a bigger claim to be a canonical Avenger than Hulk ever did.

e) And face it: War Machine is black. Yeah, so is Fury, but he's the leader and mentor in the film, an operational and logistics guy, rather than a front-line glory boy like the "true" Avengers. It sure as hell wouldn't hurt at the box office to include a "hero of color" or two just to reach out to audiences who might otherwise dismiss this movie as being just another comic book film targeted at white geeks. If nothing else, it's a missed opportunity for a broader demographic, and that's kinda surprising for Marvel when Feige's aim has been to reach beyond just the loyalists who dutifully watched all the prequel movies.


People can extrapolate and come up with all kinds of reasons War Machine wasn't on the front line in this movie, and you might even come up with some good ideas. But Joss apparently didn't bother, or else whatever mention he made of it wound up on the cutting room floor. And however slight or major you choose to make of it, it's still a disservice to comic book fans, to fans of the Iron Man movies, and definitely to Cheadle himself.

And on a personal note, I just want to say that I'm actually disgusted by the way a lot of you treated J Howlett on this issue and tried to act like he was "bat-trolling" for daring to bring up a legitimate question that he was genuinely concerned about. I've definitely seen my share of Nolanite "trolling" on this forum and many others, but the way you guys treated J Howlett makes you no better than the "Nolanite hordes" you always have fun bashing. The maturity level on these threads is usually a lot higher than this from you guys. Don't know why some of you felt compelled to lower your standards in here today.

/rant.

I'm not going to ask you what the **** is wrong with you, but I am going to address some of the things in your rant.


First off, War Machine is an Avenger in the comic books, but the movie universe is entirely separate and different. He is not now a member of the team. Tony Stark, the inventor of the armor technology, was recruited long before Rhodey took the suit he now wears. So Iron Man is the Avenger, which is what one would expect from the prequel movies.


Pepper is in the film because she and Tony are lovers and she lives with him in Stark Tower. Rhodey, on the other hand, is a military officer with a career and life that are separate. The action in the movie takes place at a rapid clip. Rhodey is presumably far enough away that he could not have gotten to New York in time to assist with the battle there. Though the combat is localized, at the end the audience is shown that the true menace is in fact global in scope. The invaders are simply coming through that one small portal/wormhole and being met with stiff resistance by the team.


Frankly, while I was watching the movie I never once thought about War Machine, despite the guy sitting behind me wearing his armor.


As for Rhodey being a hero of color and that being a bigger lure for Black audiences, that might be the case. But I am Black and I'm also about as big a comics nerd as you can find, as are my siblings. The audience I saw the movie with had many Black people in it, including the aforementioned War Machine cosplayer, a woman in a Photon costume and a Black Doctor Strange. (They came together along with a Black Widow.) It was an audience full of Black folks and nerds, and nerdy Black folks, and none of us were upset about Rhodey or the racial composition of the team that I know of. Do I want to see War Machine, Photon and other characters of color in future sequels? Of course I do. Did their absence bother me at all? Hell, no.


When you see the movie you may well sit there fretting and fuming over War Machine's absence, but most people won't. Watching The Avengers is an engrossing experience. If you can tear your attention away from the action on the screen long enough to think about anything else, you're doing it wrong.

 

[Xeno]

Does Cap have multiple masks/cowls in this movie? The one you can see there looks more like a mask than a helmet, and seems to have exposed ears, no chinstrap, etc.

He only wears the one helmet.

 

[bonzob2000]

Great post, xeno. Spot on.

 

[BigThor]

I'm not going to ask you what the **** is wrong with you, but I am going to address some of the things in your rant.


First off, War Machine is an Avenger in the comic books, but the movie universe is entirely separate and different. He is not now a member of the team. Tony Stark, the inventor of the armor technology, was recruited long before Rhodey took the suit he now wears. So Iron Man is the Avenger, which is what one would expect from the prequel movies.


Pepper is in the film because she and Tony are lovers and she lives with him in Stark Tower. Rhodey, on the other hand, is a military officer with a career and life that are separate. The action in the movie takes place at a rapid clip. Rhodey is presumably far enough away that he could not have gotten to New York in time to assist with the battle there. Though the combat is localized, at the end the audience is shown that the true menace is in fact global in scope. The invaders are simply coming through that one small portal/wormhole and being met with stiff resistance by the team.


Frankly, while I was watching the movie I never once thought about War Machine, despite the guy sitting behind me wearing his armor.


As for Rhodey being a hero of color and that being a bigger lure for Black audiences, that might be the case. But I am Black and I'm also about as big a comics nerd as you can find, as are my siblings. The audience I saw the movie with had many Black people in it, including the aforementioned War Machine cosplayer, a woman in a Photon costume and a Black Doctor Strange. (They came together along with a Black Widow.) It was an audience full of Black folks and nerds, and nerdy Black folks, and none of us were upset about Rhodey or the racial composition of the team that I know of. Do I want to see War Machine, Photon and other characters of color in future sequels? Of course I do. Did their absence bother me at all? Hell, no.


When you see the movie you may well sit there fretting and fuming over War Machine's absence, but most people won't. Watching The Avengers is an engrossing experience. If you can tear your attention away from the action on the screen long enough to think about anything else, you're doing it wrong.

I agree, I give this post two thumbs way up

 

[liveman789]

It's really as simple as putting War Machine in The Avengers with Iron Man would make Iron Man less individualistic. It would also make it too cluttered.

Yeah, it would have been better if they regarded his absence with an excuse, but apparently they didn't. So who cares? I don't. Whining about it isn't gonna change that.

And maybe they'll address the reason why he doesn't show up in Iron Man 3, the same way they'll probably address Thor's mostly unexplained route to Earth in Thor 2.

 

[alexlachiusa]

Spoiler

Does Thanos speak? And if so, who was his voice?

Sorry if that has already been answered. Didn't want to go through everything and have the whole movie spoiled for me haha.

 

[BigThor]

Spoiler

Does Thanos speak? And if so, who was his voice?

Sorry if that has already been answered. Didn't want to go through everything and have the whole movie spoiled for me haha.

I didn't see the film, but I've seen this question answered

Spoiler

so no he doesn't speak all he does is grin.

 

[liveman789]

Spoiler

Does Thanos speak? And if so, who was his voice?

Sorry if that has already been answered. Didn't want to go through everything and have the whole movie spoiled for me haha.

Yeah, Gilbert Gottfried was the supplier of his voice.

JUST KIDDING. It's been confirmed that he doesn't speak at all.

 

[Herolee10]

In light of things, based on everything that I've read so far:

Spoiler

In a way, it's kind of it interesting to think that Coulson's death shook the Avengers into working together as a cohesive unit.

I mean, here you have a guy who was created solely for the MCU, and the way his character and popularity has involved along with his importance in the MCU has been interesting to see to say the least.

 

[Adamantium Man]

In light of things, based on everything that I've read so far:

Spoiler

In a way, it's kind of it interesting to think that Coulson's death shook the Avengers into working together as a cohesive unit.

I mean, here you have a guy who was created solely for the MCU, and the way his character and popularity has involved along with his importance in the MCU has been interesting to see to say the least.

Indeed. It means that the Avengers are literal avengers, avenging

Spoiler

Coulson's death.

I had a moment when I realized that, lol, for taking so long.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

Indeed. It means that the Avengers are literal avengers, avenging

Spoiler

Coulson's death.

I had a moment when I realized that, lol, for taking so long.

I don't think that is why they're called the Avengers since they've been sort of named after the whole Avengers Initiative.

 

[Sweden]

So does Loki show no remorse at the end with his brother? do they like hate eachother?

What happens in the Loki/Black Widow scene? Details!

And how does Loki fall, Is he hurt? half dead? or what?

 

[Xeno]

I don't think that is why they're called the Avengers since they've been sort of named after the whole Avengers Initiative.

I don't think that is the point Adamantium Man was making.

Spoiler

As she pointed out, the team became literal avengers when they came together to avenge Phil Coulson's murder, not that this is where they got their name. Interestingly, it was Phil himself who suggested this to Nick as he lay dying. Nick then took that ball and ran with it, in his underhanded way, but I think Phil had given his blessing for it.

Spoiler

When Tony told Loki, "You pissed another guy off. His name was Phil," and shot that Asgardian bastard in the face, I cheered.

 

[Adamantium Man]

I don't think that is the point Adamantium Man was making.

Spoiler

As she pointed out, the team became literal avengers when they came together to avenge Phil Coulson's murder, not that this is where they got their name. Interestingly, it was Phil himself who suggested this to Nick as he lay dying. Nick then took that ball and ran with it, in his underhanded way, but I think Phil had given his blessing for it.

Spoiler

When Tony told Loki, "You pissed another guy off. His name was Phil," and shot that Asgardian bastard in the face, I cheered.

Thanks, Xeno, that's the exact point. They are Avengers because of the initiative, and avengers because of (see spoiler). Brilliant writing right there.

 

[Xeno]

So does Loki show no remorse at the end with his brother? do they like hate eachother?

What happens in the Loki/Black Widow scene? Details!

And how does Loki fall, Is he hurt? half dead? or what?

Hi, Sweden! Welcome to the Hype!

Spoiler

Loki showed no remorse after he was defeated, but in truth there was no dialog after that. He may have felt remorse, but we were not shown it. He and Thor were definitely angry with one another, but any hatred was on Loki's end, in my opinion.


A big factor to consider is that Loki had gotten himself into deep, deep trouble with his mysterious allies. They were coercing him, seemingly by physical and psychological torture. I think they were trying to make sure that he would keep his end of the bargain, the way mob enforcers will threaten and beat people they work with to keep them in line. So he really couldn't back out, even if he had wanted to.


The Loki/Black Widow scene was very well-written and acted. Natasha went to that glass enclosed cell Loki was in seeking to get Clint Barton free from the Asgardian's control. Loki asked her if she was there because she was in love with Hawkeye. She replied, "Love is for children. I owe him a debt," or words to that effect. Then they talked about how she met Clint; Natasha said that she was a criminal who didn't care who she worked with and who did many bad things. Clint was sent to assassinate her, but he didn't and recruited her for SHIELD instead.


Loki then said, "You have a lot of red on your ledger," and listed some of the murders she had committed, including blowing up a hospital. Natasha became upset as Loki told her she could never wash away all that red by working with even more accomplished killers than herself. He told her that he would not release Clint's mind until the archer had brutally murdered Natasha with his own hands [my mind blanked out his graphic description] at which point Loki would let Clint regain his senses for just a minute before splitting his skull. Turning away from Loki in horror, Natasha broke down and called him a monster. Slamming his hands on the glass, Loki screamed, "No, the monster is the one you brought to this place," meaning the Hulk. Natasha instantly cut the crying and radioed Fury, "He's here for Banner," and left Loki in shock. The player had been played.


In your last question do you mean, How was Loki at the end of the film? Well, he had been beaten severely by Hulk, but being a god and a Frost Giant he was only a bit bruised and battered. He was quite fine physically when he was marched out to return to Asgard.

 

[Sweden]

Hi, Sweden! Welcome to the Hype!

Spoiler

Loki showed no remorse after he was defeated, but in truth there was no dialog after that. He may have felt remorse, but we were not shown it. He and Thor were definitely angry with one another, but any hatred was on Loki's end, in my opinion.


A big factor to consider is that Loki had gotten himself into deep, deep trouble with his mysterious allies. They were coercing him, seemingly by physical and psychological torture. I think they were trying to make sure that he would keep his end of the bargain, the way mob enforcers will threaten and beat people they work with to keep them in line. So he really couldn't back out, even if he had wanted to.


The Loki/Black Widow scene was very well-written and acted. Natasha went to that glass enclosed cell Loki was in seeking to get Clint Barton free from the Asgardian's control. Loki asked her if she was there because she was in love with Hawkeye. She replied, "Love is for children. I owe him a debt," or words to that effect. Then they talked about how she met Clint; Natasha said that she was a criminal who didn't care who she worked with and who did many bad things. Clint was sent to assassinate her, but he didn't and recruited her for SHIELD instead.


Loki then said, "You have a lot of red on your ledger," and listed some of the murders she had committed, including blowing up a hospital. Natasha became upset as Loki told her she could never wash away all that red by working with even more accomplished killers than herself. He told her that he would not release Clint's mind until the archer had brutally murdered Natasha with his own hands [my mind blanked out his graphic description] at which point Loki would let Clint regain his senses for just a minute before splitting his skull. Turning away from Loki in horror, Natasha broke down and called him a monster. Slamming his hands on the glass, Loki screamed, "No, the monster is the one you brought to this place," meaning the Hulk. Natasha instantly cut the crying and radioed Fury, "He's here for Banner," and left Loki in shock. The player had been played.


In your last question do you mean, How was Loki at the end of the film? Well, he had been beaten severely by Hulk, but being a god and a Frost Giant he was only a bit bruised and battered. He was quite fine physically when he was marched out to return to Asgard.

Thank You!!


What's going on in the scene where loki is on a vechicle with his staff and it's driving towards something... And since Loki is on the back of the pickup who is driving?

And when Hawkeyes

Spoiler

arrow explodes in Loki's face

what happens to him?

 

[Herolee10]

You know, I wonder what the limits were to Loki's mind controlling abilities. I mean, how many people can this guy theoretically control and is there only certain people that he can control?

If that were the case, why didn't he just take control of the minds of everyone when he was defeated at the end of when they were battling against his army?

 

[Adamantium Man]

You know, I wonder what the limits were to Loki's mind controlling abilities. I mean, how many people can this guy theoretically control and is there only certain people that he can control?

If that were the case, why didn't he just take control of the minds of everyone when he was defeated at the end of when they were battling against his army?

I think it's because

Spoiler

he needs to physically touch the people he wants to control with his staff thing. He stopped trying after he couldn't control Tony. Also, he didn't have the staff anymore at that point.