The Avengers The Avengers Post Screening Review & Discussion Thread (SPOILER FILLED) - Part 5

[Scarlettess]

saw the movie earlier today.

Considering I usually see a movie once and then am ok until the DVD comes out to watch it, I seriously want to see this again. There wasn't a single scene that felt misplaced, or took you out of what was happening, the character development is all there, and every character gets a moment to shine including Black Widow and Hawkeye. I absolutely loved the fight scene in the woods, and Thor against a certain someone on the Helicarrier. Loki brings his A game, and Tom Hiddleston is absolutely fantastic in portraying such a damaged yet terrifying villain. If you know Loki from the comics, then you know alot of the time his mouth is his strongest asset and msot dangerous weapon, and this movie completely brings that out, as he tries to get inside the mind of every single one of our heroes. There's only a few things that are tiny nitpick things, but otherwise it's an absolutely fantastic movie. Oh and on the 3D, it's one of the best post-converted 3D movie I've seen so far, BUT it doesn't really add anything to the movie itself until the final battle. (Which actually looked GREAT especially in a scene where the Leviathans come into the mix, and there's THREE, not two.) Seriously though, I'd hold out watching any of the clips/ new tv spots from now until you see it, as every minute of this movie deserves to be basked in the glory of the silver screen.)

 

[Rock Sexton]

KNEEL!!!!!!!!!

 

[El Payaso]

Thor is also leagues stronger.

Than Loki? I didn't see that.

Cheap? [BLACKOUT]I saw it as a continuity of their early battle and also establishing their little rivalry.[/BLACKOUT] I like the added jerk attitude, reminds me of Hulk from the Earth's Mightiest Heroes cartoon, when he would constantly tussle with the Thing.

I don't have anything against a Hulk with an attitude. [BLACKOUT]But the way Loki is shown after the beating it was just ridiculous. It was like a cartoon and turned the character into a joke for the sake of a last minute couple of laughs.[/BLACKOUT]

Hulk punched Thor because he was still angry after their earlier battle. Also, Banner wants to turn into the Hulk in the final battle, so he has more control over it.

Doesn't Banner always want to control Hulk anyways?

How does wanting to turn into the Hulk give Banner more control over him?
[BLACKOUT]It just happened all of a sudden. At one point Hulk wanted to smash the Avengers, at the next Banner suddenly had complete control. Out of the clear blue sky.[/BLACKOUT] And if Banner's in control of Hulk, [BLACKOUT]how come he remembers he's still angry with Thor?
[/BLACKOUT]

 

[craigaat]

saw the movie earlier today.

Considering I usually see a movie once and then am ok until the DVD comes out to watch it, I seriously want to see this again. There wasn't a single scene that felt misplaced, or took you out of what was happening, the character development is all there, and every character gets a moment to shine including Black Widow and Hawkeye. I absolutely loved the fight scene in the woods, and Thor against a certain someone on the Helicarrier. Loki brings his A game, and Tom Hiddleston is absolutely fantastic in portraying such a damaged yet terrifying villain. If you know Loki from the comics, then you know alot of the time his mouth is his strongest asset and msot dangerous weapon, and this movie completely brings that out, as he tries to get inside the mind of every single one of our heroes. There's only a few things that are tiny nitpick things, but otherwise it's an absolutely fantastic movie. Oh and on the 3D, it's one of the best post-converted 3D movie I've seen so far, BUT it doesn't really add anything to the movie itself until the final battle. (Which actually looked GREAT especially in a scene where the Leviathans come into the mix, and there's THREE, not two.) Seriously though, I'd hold out watching any of the clips/ new tv spots from now until you see it, as every minute of this movie deserves to be basked in the glory of the silver screen.)

This.

Thoroughly enjoyed it, really funny too. It felt like a proper comic book movie. The banter between the characters is quality. Hulk throwing Loki around like a rag doll was amazing.

My only nitpick is that Agent Coulson didn't get more screen time.

 

[Scarlettess]

I agree with everything you say. Specially about [BLACKOUT]Coulson dying. That part's drama died with one of those stupid jokes (so this is what the gun does) they feel they have to pepper all over. But at least his death served a purpose.[/BLACKOUT]

I also noticed the [BLACKOUT]incoherences about the Hulk, going from incontrolable beast that wanted to smash Black Widow to a perfectly self-controled beast who took orders, smiled and threw one awful one-liner.[/BLACKOUT]

About Loki, [BLACKOUT]I don't know why they took so much effort to make him a great villiain just to have it beaten that half-comedic way by Hulk stripping the villanous character from any dignity. I totally disliked that.[/BLACKOUT]

I also rate this movie 3/5.

I noticed this too, and in fact my mate who saw it with me asked me afterwards, [BLACKOUT]how did Hulk go from fighting them to saving them and not wanting to hurt them? course I had forgotten about the whole Banner picking up Loki's staff thing, as the final fight scene was so awesome, but of course that makes more sense that what I told her. (Hulk feeling accepting for once instead of a mindless monster which was something they kept hitting on throughout the movie. though I also think that is part of it too)[/BLACKOUT]

I also agree about [BLACKOUT]Coulson, I didn't feel impacted by his death as much as I should have, I was expecting to even shed a tear at this scene but nada. The scene with Cap and Tony was alot more impactful then the death. I suppose they had to butter it up though for the kids watching.... [/BLACKOUT]

and Loki. Well that was the one thing that I came out HATING about the movie. mainly because [BLACKOUT] Loki should have put up more of a fight, or at least stood back up, I know he isn't as strong as Thor, but he's not 'weak' either. plus with how smart Loki is, he should have at least expected that, if he truly believed Hulk was a mindless beast in the first place. The wimpering was jsut cringe worthy. Then he doesn't wake up till after the battle is over? How conveniant. [/BLACKOUT] That's the only major thing I really didn't like. Everything else was great though!

edit: ok not hating, but strongly disliking.

 

[Avenger25]

Just a quick question does anyone remember what widow did in the tracking shot?

 

[Scarlettess]

This.

Thoroughly enjoyed it, really funny too. It felt like a proper comic book movie. The banter between the characters is quality. Hulk throwing Loki around like a rag doll was amazing.

My only nitpick is that Agent Coulson didn't get more screen time.

There's only probably about three things I could nitpick through the entire thing, and Loki [BLACKOUT]getting thrown around like that [/BLACKOUT]I didn't mind it was the way he was portrayed after, like others have said, a cheap shot just to get a few laughs.

 

[Rock Sexton]

Just a quick question does anyone remember what widow did in the tracking shot?

I believe she

Spoiler

was riding one of the chariots to get to Loki and the Cube. Cap gave her a quick boost to jump up to it to hitch a ride.

 

[Kalonthar]

I've learned a long time ago not to take anything Loki says or does at face value.

 

[Xeno]

He deserved the punishment but also the required seriousness, not a comedic facile way out. The movie invested big time in making him dreadful, you don't [BLACKOUT]just turn him into a clown in the climax.[/BLACKOUT] I mean, you shouldn't.

What, you expected the Avengers to treat Loki with respect after all that he did? The humiliation of the villain is part and parcel of his inevitable defeat and debasement. He got the beatdown and contempt he deserved. From my point of view, he's lucky to have gotten away alive with as much human blood as he had on his hands.

 

[Scarlettess]

I've learned a long time ago not to take anything Loki says or does at face value.

The thing I love about Loki, is that he's a manipulator of truth, and he uses his tongue for the most to get what he wants. and actually what you said [BLACKOUT]it is Cap who keeps on reminding the team of this, not let him get inside their head[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Kingdork]

As much as I loved the movie (released yesturday, saw it twice already), there's something I didn't get:

Spoiler

Can someone tell me why Dr. Selvig helped Black Widow at the end, while he was still under Loki's control? I still can't get my head around that.

 

[Lady Marion]

As much as I loved the movie (released yesturday, saw it twice already), there's something I didn't get:

Spoiler

Can someone tell me why Dr. Selvig helped Black Widow at the end, while he was still under Loki's control? I still can't get my head around that.

I think

Spoiler

Hulk slammed Loki right now. Loki was paralysed and the bann broke.

Any other ideas around?

 

[Pond]

Its a character moment.

Spoiler

Loki is all about EGO; his plan is about self fullfilment, about his inferiority complex; if he cant be king of Asgard, he will be lord of Earth and HE WILL BE HAILED.

Of course, the best end to such claim is to ridicule him in the end, show him how little he really is, making fun of him; just to defeat him phisically and tactically is not enough; the Avengers have to defeat him psichologically too.

And having Hulk showing him a special dance in the middle of "Oh, i am so big..." is not a cheap joke; its a perfectly suited thematic and character moment.

He wanted to be a big man and now he is shown he aint that big; perfect punishment and total, absolute defeta, on all fronts.

You see Hitler? Laugh at him. That will hurt him more than anything. Make him into the new Hannibal Lecter or the boogey man and even in defeta, part of him will have won. It si, actually, a quite inteligent movie.

Also both in THor and here i always got the impression that THor was the fighter, while Loki was the deceaver and the magician; i didnt expect him being as good as punching HUlk as Thor. Not all Asgardians need to be great fighters and Loki never really comes out as anythink but the king of lies... unless of course he is fighting lesser humans. He is a gos after all...

As for Hulk, its really simple: Hulk is Banners anger incarnate.

The first time he loses it, he looses it; he changes unwillingly, uncontroled anger overcomes him and he becomes the incarnation of that uncontroled rage; therefoire, a raving, everything must be destroyed, hate you all Hulk.

But then we discover that Banner, instead of or repressing his anger, wich never really works as it always bites bacjk with a vengeance, has learned to contro his anger, to be always angry and always be able to get a controled anger, to the point that now he can even transform at will and very much in control: therefore, a controlled Hulk.

Hulk is still a character, manifestation of Banner Anger or not,but as anger itself, and that is what it is, the more angry the more uncontroled and viceversa.

Yes, he controls anger; he can control HUlk. BUt HUlk is anger. He is an emotion. YOu cant guarantee that your emotions will always be in check. You might loose it from time to time. NObody can assure you that after Avengers he finds his girlfriend in bed with a friend and he looses it converting into full uncontrolable HUlk again...

Emotions arent mathematics. He can control hisn anger, and therefore his HUlk, but if he looses grip on that control, like he did before, the fury and rage and control will equal that of his own emotion.

 

[Nathan]

I think

Spoiler

Hulk slammed Loki right now. Loki was paralysed and the bann broke.

Any other ideas around?

Spoiler

Didn't Black Widow break Hawkeye out of his mind control, because basically she hit his head very hard? Didn't something similar happen to Selvig when he fell?

 

[itchyscratch]

Spoiler

Didn't Black Widow break Hawkeye out of his mind control, because basically she hit his head very hard? Didn't something similar happen to Selvig when he fell?

That was my assumption, especially after BW explained to Hawkeye how his enchantment was broken. I didn't think it had anything to do with Loki, but more to do with Selvig being knocked out.

 

[Kingdork]

Spoiler

Didn't Black Widow break Hawkeye out of his mind control, because basically she hit his head very hard? Didn't something similar happen to Selvig when he fell?

Oh yeah you're right. That must be it then, thanks

 

[Chewy]

Its a character moment.

Spoiler

Loki is all about EGO; his plan is about self fullfilment, about his inferiority complex; if he cant be king of Asgard, he will be lord of Earth and HE WILL BE HAILED.

Of course, the best end to such claim is to ridicule him in the end, show him how little he really is, making fun of him; just to defeat him phisically and tactically is not enough; the Avengers have to defeat him psichologically too.

And having Hulk showing him a special dance in the middle of "Oh, i am so big..." is not a cheap joke; its a perfectly suited thematic and character moment.

He wanted to be a big man and now he is shown he aint that big; perfect punishment and total, absolute defeta, on all fronts.

You see Hitler? Laugh at him. That will hurt him more than anything. Make him into the new Hannibal Lecter or the boogey man and even in defeta, part of him will have won. It si, actually, a quite inteligent movie.

Also both in THor and here i always got the impression that THor was the fighter, while Loki was the deceaver and the magician; i didnt expect him being as good as punching HUlk as Thor. Not all Asgardians need to be great fighters and Loki never really comes out as anythink but the king of lies... unless of course he is fighting lesser humans. He is a gos after all...

As for Hulk, its really simple: Hulk is Banners anger incarnate.

The first time he loses it, he looses it; he changes unwillingly, uncontroled anger overcomes him and he becomes the incarnation of that uncontroled rage; therefoire, a raving, everything must be destroyed, hate you all Hulk.

But then we discover that Banner, instead of or repressing his anger, wich never really works as it always bites bacjk with a vengeance, has learned to contro his anger, to be always angry and always be able to get a controled anger, to the point that now he can even transform at will and very much in control: therefore, a controlled Hulk.

Hulk is still a character, manifestation of Banner Anger or not,but as anger itself, and that is what it is, the more angry the more uncontroled and viceversa.

Yes, he controls anger; he can control HUlk. BUt HUlk is anger. He is an emotion. YOu cant guarantee that your emotions will always be in check. You might loose it from time to time. NObody can assure you that after Avengers he finds his girlfriend in bed with a friend and he looses it converting into full uncontrolable HUlk again...

Emotions arent mathematics. He can control hisn anger, and therefore his HUlk, but if he looses grip on that control, like he did before, the fury and rage and control will equal that of his own emotion.

 

[Scarlettess]

Its a character moment.

Spoiler

Loki is all about EGO; his plan is about self fullfilment, about his inferiority complex; if he cant be king of Asgard, he will be lord of Earth and HE WILL BE HAILED.

Of course, the best end to such claim is to ridicule him in the end, show him how little he really is, making fun of him; just to defeat him phisically and tactically is not enough; the Avengers have to defeat him psichologically too.

And having Hulk showing him a special dance in the middle of "Oh, i am so big..." is not a cheap joke; its a perfectly suited thematic and character moment.

He wanted to be a big man and now he is shown he aint that big; perfect punishment and total, absolute defeta, on all fronts.

You see Hitler? Laugh at him. That will hurt him more than anything. Make him into the new Hannibal Lecter or the boogey man and even in defeta, part of him will have won. It si, actually, a quite inteligent movie.

Also both in THor and here i always got the impression that THor was the fighter, while Loki was the deceaver and the magician; i didnt expect him being as good as punching HUlk as Thor. Not all Asgardians need to be great fighters and Loki never really comes out as anythink but the king of lies... unless of course he is fighting lesser humans. He is a gos after all...

As for Hulk, its really simple: Hulk is Banners anger incarnate.

The first time he loses it, he looses it; he changes unwillingly, uncontroled anger overcomes him and he becomes the incarnation of that uncontroled rage; therefoire, a raving, everything must be destroyed, hate you all Hulk.

But then we discover that Banner, instead of or repressing his anger, wich never really works as it always bites bacjk with a vengeance, has learned to contro his anger, to be always angry and always be able to get a controled anger, to the point that now he can even transform at will and very much in control: therefore, a controlled Hulk.

Hulk is still a character, manifestation of Banner Anger or not,but as anger itself, and that is what it is, the more angry the more uncontroled and viceversa.

Yes, he controls anger; he can control HUlk. BUt HUlk is anger. He is an emotion. YOu cant guarantee that your emotions will always be in check. You might loose it from time to time. NObody can assure you that after Avengers he finds his girlfriend in bed with a friend and he looses it converting into full uncontrolable HUlk again...

Emotions arent mathematics. He can control hisn anger, and therefore his HUlk, but if he looses grip on that control, like he did before, the fury and rage and control will equal that of his own emotion.

first good post. Also, I get that with Loki thinking he's so big so best way to defeat him is to show how small he is, [BLACKOUT]Hulk throwing him around I got, and I actually didn't mind that it was the wimpering after. I guess for me it made the scene just a little too OTT. I know he's not as strong as Thor, but he can still take a pretty good beating, as shown both times when he goes against Thor. So yes, he takes a beating from Thor, but the time he wakes up they've defeated the army? yeah okay then. [/BLACKOUT]
I know what they were trying to do, but it just didn't settle well with me.

 

[Lord]

I loved this movie, but considering what happened with the previous Marvel Studios movies i think that fans will love it at first and talk as if it was the best thing in the world, some time later some will begin to say that it could have been better,

Spoiler

then they will point out that how Thor returned should have been shoun better, then that it spent too much time on the helicarrier

and so on.

While the movie was infinitelly better written than Transformers 3, the latter didn't receive the merit it deserved for the city scene but Avengers got it.

 

[Desk]

Here's my instant thoughts...

Spoiler

Just got in from seeing the film, and as enjoyable as it was I can't say I was completely blown away by it. There are problems with structure and pacing, with an awfully long, talky, claustrophobic section aboard the helicarrier. The main characters also occasionally feel rather like they're all doing guest cameos in someone else's show - there's not a strong sense of ownership as in their individual properties, and it therefore doesn't completely gel. Also, I wasn't blown away by Joss's dialogue. The "funny stuff", which you can usually rely on him for, wasn't, really. The film also highlights the problems in putting together characters with such diverse levels of powers. At times, it didn't feel Cap was any more effectual than a crossing guard. What I did like was Scarlett as the Widow, Ruffalo as a slightly 'off' Banner and the handling of the Hulk. Hiddleston makes for a decent villain, even if the character's actions didn't make total sense, and it was good to see Samuel L back in shape and kicking ass. All in all, good, and I'll need to see it again before making a final judgement, but at this stage sadly a case of the whole being somehow less than the sum of the parts.

 

[Nevincer]

I really enjoyed it. Everything a marvel film should be of that tone/nature, the pacing was fabulous.

It's not Marvel's Dark Knight though, it's a completely different beast to those films as these have always aimed to be. I'm not sure where those comparisons came from... maybe the fact that both can be considered crown jewels of their respective studios? I don't know, but beyond that it's a different beast.

 

[Chewy]

I'm not sure where those comparisons came from... maybe the fact that both can be considered crown jewels of their respective studios? I don't know, but beyond that it's a different beast.

Uh, yeah. The comparison was in terms of how good they are, not what they are

 

[Sarg92]

I thought it was a really good and fun popcorn flick with very good action but I was left wanting more! I wanted the final battle to go on even longer with more destruction!

Also did it seem to anyone else notice that Banner might have been slightly controlled by Loki? When Loki glanced and smiled at Banner, he immediately started to rub his eyes and then when everyone is arguing, Banner ends up holding Loki's staff without even realising.

 

[Dr Lee]

That was either Hulk taking control for a moment and grabbing the staff..... or Loki taking control and grabbing the staff...