The Avengers The Avengers Post Screening Review & Discussion Thread (SPOILER FILLED) - Part 5

[Marvolo]

The problem with adding 45 minutes of additional material is this thing called pacing...

Very true, but if I remember correctly when Whedon was discussing cutting the 45 minutes it was more to do with trimming the runtime than pacing. I don't think he ever mentioned pacing as being the reasoning, and he seemed to have been happy with the original cut, but realized it was too long for a theatrical blockbuster release.

 

[Bim]

I really want to see those 45 minutes! t:

 

[El Payaso]

Payaso, you sound like a clown.

Someone was using an online dictionary.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Absolutely. Any opinion contrary to the majority is by definition wrong. That way we can all carry on.

lol did I say your precious little snowflake opinion was wrong? No, I just said you get off on contrariness and no argument with you will benefit anyone unless their goal is to kill a few days with the old "nuh-huh! uh-uh!" routine.

 

[irapogi]

Not always a good idea. I mean, in the dvd/bluray of Tropic Thunder, there's an extended version with a lot of the scenes that they cut.

More funny right? ... wrong. The pacing was horrible on that one.

 

[Vulklin]

why do so many people go on and on about pacing?

what is your complaint exactly?

too slow and cannot keep your attention?

it annoys me, just like when i read a critic says overlong

how the **** is a movie overlong?????

it sometimes feels like there is an epidemic of ADHD sweeping the planet

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'm disappointed myself, especially considering going on 45 minutes was cut. That is a lot of material, and character material to here Whedon tell it. At least we will see some of it or all of it in the supplements.

It hurts because if feels like the material was edited for time more then anything.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

why do so many people go on and on about pacing?

what is your complaint exactly?

too slow and cannot keep your attention?

it annoys me, just like when i read a critic says overlong

how the **** is a movie overlong?????

it sometimes feels like there is an epidemic of ADHD sweeping the planet

Superfluous, boring material that is badly directed/acted/written that adds nothing to the characters or story is bad. It is the equivalent of dropping in random 3 minute shots of animals in the middle of a film.

 

[Vulklin]

Superfluous, boring material that is badly directed/acted/written that adds nothing to the characters or story is bad. It is the equivalent of dropping in random 3 minute shots of animals in the middle of a film.

I am not talking about bad direction or writing so why mention it?

PACING

I have never watched any film in my life and thought to myself, "this part is boring" Boring is what children say

If you are telling a story and want to go from A to B, there is no rule saying "we must get from A to B in the fastest time possible". What is the rush?

I would be quite happy if halfway through the Avengers they added 30 minutes of the Avengers doing nothing but talking, sometimes about ****. I would not be thinking "where da monsters at already, am gettin bored like"

 

[venom420]

el payaso...i think you might be lost...this isnt the imdb board

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I am not talking about bad direction or writing so why mention it?

PACING

I have never watched any film in my life and thought to myself, "this part is boring" Boring is what children say

If you are telling a story and want to go from A to B, there is no rule saying "we must get from A to B in the fastest time possible". What is the rush?

I would be quite happy if halfway through the Avengers they added 30 minutes of the Avengers doing nothing but talking, sometimes about ****. I would not be thinking "where da monsters at already, am gettin bored like"

I am pretty sure plenty of adults use the word boring. I just did.

It isn't about rushing, it is about entertaining. When your audience wants a scene to end just to end, it is a problem.

Directing a writing clearly comes into it. Go and watch the vast majority of deleted scenes or scenes people complain about. They serve little to no purpose to the story or characters, repeat information the film has already told the audience or worst yet are just downright terrible for one reason or another.

 

[Quasimod0]

Yes theres a point where you just kinda say, " get on with it already!"
I felt that way several times in the dark knight. lol

 

[Xeno]

I am not talking about bad direction or writing so why mention it?

PACING

I have never watched any film in my life and thought to myself, "this part is boring" Boring is what children say

If you are telling a story and want to go from A to B, there is no rule saying "we must get from A to B in the fastest time possible". What is the rush?

I would be quite happy if halfway through the Avengers they added 30 minutes of the Avengers doing nothing but talking, sometimes about ****. I would not be thinking "where da monsters at already, am gettin bored like"

You have seriously never been bored by any movie? You must not watch clunkers like the Transformers series, or Green Lantern or any number of others.


There are plenty of movie that are too long, in my opinion, and could have benefited from having scenes edited out that slowed down the narrative. Just as there are some that had so much meat cut out that the film was weakened as a result.


What Whedon has said about editing out those 45 minutes is that he felt that to leave them in would have left the film overlong. He said it would have been self-indulgent, meaning that the first cut he assembled was what he as writer/director wanted and not necessarily what would have best served the interests of the film in terms of pacing, plot and character development. I find his restraint admirable. Having seen the finished product, I think he got it just right. However, I do look forward to seeing all of the deleted scenes on the DVD/Blu-Ray.

 

[flickchick85]

I am not talking about bad direction or writing so why mention it?

PACING

I have never watched any film in my life and thought to myself, "this part is boring" Boring is what children say

If you are telling a story and want to go from A to B, there is no rule saying "we must get from A to B in the fastest time possible". What is the rush?

I would be quite happy if halfway through the Avengers they added 30 minutes of the Avengers doing nothing but talking, sometimes about ****. I would not be thinking "where da monsters at already, am gettin bored like"

Pacing is a very significant part of storytelling, be it visual or not. The good storytellers know when to take a moment and savor the details, and when to get on with it to keep their audience engaged.

It's an art, and "bad pacing" doesn't necessarily mean "too slow" - breakneck speeds are just as bad from a pacing standpoint as crawling, as sequences with too much happening too fast can be just as tedious for the viewer as scenes where barely anything is happening. Even in an action movie, you need to slow down for a minute and give your scenes room to breathe, but at the same time, you don't want the pace to slow to a complete halt. It's a fine line, and Whedon said he took out the scenes he did because they did exactly what you don't want to do as a storyteller - kill the momentum you've built up to at that point. The moment the audience disengages, you've screwed up the pacing, so the tricky part for editors and directors is to gauge when that will occur.

Also, editing is about rhythm. When to cut from shot to shot, when to cut from scene to scene. There's a rhythmic consistency to it. You may not notice these things as a viewer, but that's usually because the editor did their job right. When the rhythm is off, viewers tend to notice. That's where "pacing" complaints come in.

 

[Donstuie]

Think of a film like a song. Throwing the most awesome riff in the universe onto any old song won't necessarily enhance it, but in many cases throw it out of whack or just make it noise.

A classic case in point is Lord of the Rings. Copying and pasting the book from page to film, word for word, would've been a disaster. Hence many scenes were cut that weren't crucial to the plot. On top of this, each film had at least 30-40 minutes cut out for cinema release. Even with the special editions on dvd, there were still scenes that never saw the light of day. The mantra was clear, focus on Frodo and the ring, and only go to the others when absolutely necessary. This kept it lean, while still being epic.

A case of doing it wrong ironically was Peter Jackson's King Kong, where a good hour of the film had nothing to do with the story, and even though they may have been cool scenes by themselves, they pull you out of the story. Bay's TF sequels are another example, but in this case it was a case of too many drawn-out action sequences, "battle fatigue" kicks in and you lose interest.

Because geeks like us gobble up every moment with our favourite characters, we assume that having more will enhance our experience. The opposite is often true.

 

[peterparker0077]

Just saw it... wow... so much to take in...

 

[White_Knight191]

I've seen the movie this wednesday and it was totally awesome. Can't wait to see it again.

The humor was really good in it too, but there was one joke I didn't fully understand;

Spoiler

When Steven Rogers gives Nick Fury some dollars on the helicarrier, why did he do that?

 

[Spikey]

I've seen the movie this wednesday and it was totally awesome. Can't wait to see it again.

The humor was really good in it too, but there was one joke I didn't fully understand;

Spoiler

When Steven Rogers gives Nick Fury some dollars on the helicarrier, why did he do that?

Rememeber the first talk between Cap and Fury?

Spoiler

Fury: There are some things in this world that would surprise you
Cap: I don't think so
Fury: I bet you $10

So, that was it.

 

[paulogonza]

i saw it in midnight show in brazil and one thing my wife never in her life tod me to see a movie once again in theaters, and TA she want see again, no more words, awesome movie, the action is the other planet

 

[White_Knight191]

Rememeber the first talk between Cap and Fury?

Spoiler

Fury: There are some things in this world that would surprise you
Cap: I don't think so
Fury: I bet you $10

So, that was it.

Oh, that explains it. Thanks for replying.

 

[TacomaTruck90]

i posted this like a week or two..now that movies out internationally the chances of a bootleg happening to come are like ........

 

[Webfoot Hero]

i posted this like a week or two..now that movies out internationally the chances of a bootleg happening to come are like ........

And whoever wastes their time watching a bootleg version of The Avengers is a moron.

 

[Herolee10]

If someone would be so kind to give their feedback on this:

I've been talking to a few close friends who have seen the film, and for them (not me at all, especially since I didn't see the film yet.lol) they thought:

Spoiler

that with Iron Man being the one to advert the Nuclear missile away from the city and into the portal, thus destroying the mother ship, that it felt a little bit as though he had gotten the bigger thunder/important factor from the rest of the group for having pulled that off.

For those that have seen the film, did you guys see it that way or was the final battle orchestrated in a way where it's very evident that there's no way in hell that these heroes would have been able to save Earth/NYC on their own and that everyone equally contributed.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

If someone would be so kind to give their feedback on this:

I've been talking to a few close friends who have seen the film, and for them (not me at all, especially since I didn't see the film yet.lol) they thought:

Spoiler

that with Iron Man being the one to advert the Nuclear missile away from the city and into the portal, thus destroying the mother ship, that it felt a little bit as though he had gotten the bigger thunder/important factor from the rest of the group for having pulled that off.

For those that have seen the film, did you guys see it that way or was the final battle orchestrated in a way where it's very evident that there's no way in hell that these heroes would have been able to save Earth/NYC on their own and that everyone equally contributed.

Spoiler

Except Tony only Thor had the ability to fly, so only those two could have saved the city. But Thor had not headpiece/communication device so it was Tony who got the call from SHIELD

 

[SaF]

If someone would be so kind to give their feedback on this:

I've been talking to a few close friends who have seen the film, and for them (not me at all, especially since I didn't see the film yet.lol) they thought:

Spoiler

that with Iron Man being the one to advert the Nuclear missile away from the city and into the portal, thus destroying the mother ship, that it felt a little bit as though he had gotten the bigger thunder/important factor from the rest of the group for having pulled that off.

For those that have seen the film, did you guys see it that way or was the final battle orchestrated in a way where it's very evident that there's no way in hell that these heroes would have been able to save Earth/NYC on their own and that everyone equally contributed.

answer without spoilers...

I thought the movie made it clear that all of them were needed, that all the skills were vital to stopping the aliens and saving the people in the city. Stark just happened to have the right skill set for dealing with that particular problem. =)

answer with spoilers....

Spoiler

I thought that it was seamless as Iron man being the one to do it, emotinally in the film there was some questioning of stark's heroic qualities by other avengers, and I think this was in there to address that but it also made perfect sense to me thinking about it in terms of the team members skill set and who would be best to handle that problem.

All the other characters get their own heroic moments to shine and this was Starks, I thought it was very well handled.

overthought reasons for why it was Stark....
Fury radios stark in his suit to stop it (I think he has like 2 minutes to do this?), which made perfect sense to me as he's the only one with a communications device that can fly, Thor I don't think has a com link or anything else plus he was busy with cap on the ground fighting. In addition, stark used to make weapons/missiles, he's an expert in them so of course fury would ask him rather than Thor to take care of it, as he would know better which parts he could grab/damage without making it go boom. =)