The Avengers vs X-Men: Days of Future Past

[Raiden]

Honestly, I didn't. I really didn't care about most of them in The Avengers.

And you care about those future X-Men who didn't even get to say anything in the brief scenes they were in? Btw, I do care about Stark, Thor, Rogers, etc. because I've watched all the MCU and so I felt invested in their fate in TA.

 

[Snow Queen]

And you care about those future X-Men who didn't even get to say anything in the brief scenes they were in? Btw, I do care about Stark, Thor, Rogers, etc. because I've watched all the MCU and so I felt invested in their fate in TA.

Not the new ones. I cared about the returning ones (mostly, anyway), but not so much the ones that just got introduced. They served their purpose and worked for that, but I wasn't connected to them or anything.And fair enough that you did care about them. I was just highlighting that part since you said that no matter what the viewer feels attached to these characters, whereas I just didn't. I liked Stark still, I liked Banner, Widow was alright, Cap I like in his solo films but something about him in Avengers overall just doesn't work for me (he does have some good scenes though, sadly the best got cut), Hawkeye I cared for as much as the new future X-Men and Thor I just don't care for as a character even in his solo films. It's great that you do like them and care about them in that film and I'm glad you enjoy the film, I just personally wasn't attached to them much.

 

[Uncle Radiation]

[YT]p1Hp7gPo3To[/YT]

Yes, I saw that bit thanks. That's why I said Whedon needed to emphasize more the fact that the Avengers were getting exhausted, and that there were way more Chitauri to come. It just looked like Cap was hurt after landing on the car a few scenes beforehand, not that he was fatigued.

 

[Uncle Radiation]

In DOFP, we were given a bunch of cardboard figures with super powers

Would you call the rebel pilots and soldiers in Star Wars cardboard cut outs?

Or the resistance fighters in the Terminator movies?

The mutants, Bishop and co in DoFP, serve the same purpose. They just have a small, specific part to play in the movie. They do not get fleshed out and do not have much screentime, but we can see that they are brave and desperate, and underdogs - and that is enough to make the audience root for them.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Would you call the rebel pilots and soldiers in Star Wars cardboard cut outs?

Or the resistance fighters in the Terminator movies?

The mutants, Bishop and co in DoFP, serve the same purpose. They just have a small, specific part to play in the movie. They do not get fleshed out and do not have much screentime, but we can see that they are brave and desperate, and underdogs - and that is enough to make the audience root for them.

Exactly. Comparing a small role like Iceman or Storm to a lead character like Iron Man or Thor is apples and oranges.

 

[Saitou Hajime]

Would you call the rebel pilots and soldiers in Star Wars cardboard cut outs?

Or the resistance fighters in the Terminator movies?

The mutants, Bishop and co in DoFP, serve the same purpose. They just have a small, specific part to play in the movie. They do not get fleshed out and do not have much screentime, but we can see that they are brave and desperate, and underdogs - and that is enough to make the audience root for them.

Comparing the Terminator and Star Wars red shirts to the future mutants DOFP is a bit disingenuous. The former don't generally get individual posters, featurettes, interviews, and trailer focus, so it's easy to regard their parts as being relatively minor.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Days of Future Past outdoes Avengers in it's first five minutes. The scenes of the mutants battling the Sentinels are just as cool, spectacular and fan-pleasing as anything in Avengers, but they are also desperate and ominous - we really believe the good guys are fighting for their lives. In The Avengers, there really is no doubt who is going to win the day. As much fun as it is watching Downey and co take out hordes of aliens for half and hour, there's no real sense of danger.

I find this a problem with the whole MCU rather than just TA, the heroes just never seem in danger, TWS is the one thats come closest to building tension.

But yeah, in TA there was never a doubt that the heroes would prevail, in DOFP I actually feared for the outcome of these characters.

People say they didnt care about the future mutants, and with the new ones I understand that, but there was also Storm, Iceman, Kitty, Colossus Professor X, Magneto and Wolverine there who were all in danger and those characters I DID care about. DOFP had much more tension and fear that the heroes wouldnt prevail than TA or most other MCU movies have ever had.

I like both movies a lot, and both are in my top 5 CBM's, but DOFP is just that little bit better for me and the high stakes and the building of tension are a reason for that. I hope they MCU can bring more of a threat to its heroes at some point as it will make the movies better for it.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I found victory in The Avengers much harder to achieve than DoFP, but both did a good job building suspense.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I found victory in The Avengers much harder to achieve than DoFP, but both did a good job building suspense.

Another one we will have to agree to disagree on . There were actual stakes in DOFP because there was the chance that they wouldnt be successful in the past, which would have meant all those future deaths would have stuck.

In TA they just didnt show enough stakes or reasons that the Chitauri were such a big threat, and Loki was eliminated as a threat by that awesome scene with the Hulk.

 

[Mad Ones]

Victory in DOFP was also dependent on characterization, whereas in the Avengers it was based on a loophole in the plot (Selvig's built in safeguard).

 

[flickchick85]

There were actual stakes in DOFP because there was the chance that they wouldnt be successful in the past, which would have meant all those future deaths would have stuck.

And? If they hadn't closed the portal, the Chitauri would have eventually overwhelmed the Avengers (as they were already well on their way to doing toward the end) and the entire Earth would have been lost. The stakes seemed pretty even. Now you could argue that the outcome seemed more uncertain in DoFP, and on that, I'd agree with you. Because it was based largely on the decisions of two very grey and unpredictable characters (Mystique and Magneto). But not for one second did I (or, I'd suspect, many in the audience) actually believe all those deaths would stick in the future. It felt like the whole point of showing them was because they were about to press the "undo" button.

However, I'd also agree with this:

Victory in DOFP was also dependent on characterization, whereas in the Avengers it was based on a loophole in the plot (Selvig's built in safeguard).

The victory was emotionally/character-driven in DoFP, while it was action-driven in the Avengers. No argument there.

 

[DACrowe]

I know it is going to lose but X-Men: Days of Future Past all the way.

It is surprisingly better written (as I would expect Whedon to surpass Kinberg). Both have a bit of a clunky start, but for X-Men it is a cool action sequence followed by a few weak, awkward exposition dumps and then bam we're in the '70s and it is great the rest of the way. With Avengers, the movie doesn't really start working until Iron Man and Thor start fighting. That like 40 minutes into the freaking thing (just my opinion).

Avengers has the better action sequence at the end, a real crowd pleaser. But Days of Future Past has the better characters, arcs, and acting from Xavier (both of them), Fassbender's Magneto, Wolverine, and even Mystique.

Another way to put it is I don't know if I'll ever watch Avengers from beginning to end again. It has some great eye candy scenes and some hilarious dialogue, but the first 40 or so minutes are such a chore to watch. I think Days of Future Past is a much more rewarding experience to be fulfilled and felt on the whole in a complete one sitting.

 

[DACrowe]

And? If they hadn't closed the portal, the Chitauri would have eventually overwhelmed the Avengers (as they were already well on their way to doing toward the end) and the entire Earth would have been lost. The stakes seemed pretty even. Now you could argue that the outcome seemed more uncertain in DoFP, and on that, I'd agree with you. Because it was based largely on the decisions of two very grey and unpredictable characters (Mystique and Magneto). But not for one second did I (or, I'd suspect, many in the audience) actually believe all those deaths would stick in the future. It felt like the whole point of showing them was because they were about to press the "undo" button.

However, I'd also agree with this:

The victory was emotionally/character-driven in DoFP, while it was action-driven in the Avengers. No argument there.

I would say it is a matter of execution. On a visceral, emotional level, I am on the edge of my seat when I first see Days of Future Past. Going in I know that the future will be prevented and (likely) X3 will be as well. But in the moment, I feel like the fate of the world is over as Magneto destroys the White House's South Lawn. And when Mystique turns the gun on Trask, and Xavier reaches out to her, it feels like an authentic character moment that you want to see her commence.

With The Avengers it was just fun. All the heroes were making quips and having fun for most of it. "I'm bringing the party to you"/"That doesn't look like a party," "Puny god," whatever lame line they give Hawkeye when he is bantering with Stark about how the aliens can't bank, and the rapport between Cap and Black Widow when she "catches a ride."

It felt more like a party complete with Hulk sucker punching Thor. The only time Whedon really raises the stakes is when Iron Man calls Pepper and she doesn't pick up. Otherwise, it is fun, but not very suspenseful.

I imagine Whedon is aware of this and it was a clear choice to make the movie as joyful as possible. I suspect he will try to raise the stakes, at least tonally, for the next one.

In Days of Future Past, the execution was so good that you forget it is a foregone conclusion and are holding your breath. That is great storytelling right there. AT least it is in my opinion.

 

[JP]

First time I saw DoFP I wanted to put my hands on my face during the Paris scenes. It was that suspenseful to me.

 

[flickchick85]

I would say it is a matter of execution. On a visceral, emotional level, I am on the edge of my seat when I first see Days of Future Past. Going in I know that the future will be prevented and (likely) X3 will be as well. But in the moment, I feel like the fate of the world is over as Magneto destroys the White House's South Lawn. And when Mystique turns the gun on Trask, and Xavier reaches out to her, it feels like an authentic character moment that you want to see her commence.

With The Avengers it was just fun. All the heroes were making quips and having fun for most of it. "I'm bringing the party to you"/"That doesn't look like a party," "Puny god," whatever lame line they give Hawkeye when he is bantering with Stark about how the aliens can't bank, and the rapport between Cap and Black Widow when she "catches a ride."

It felt more like a party complete with Hulk sucker punching Thor. The only time Whedon really raises the stakes is when Iron Man calls Pepper and she doesn't pick up. Otherwise, it is fun, but not very suspenseful.

I imagine Whedon is aware of this and it was a clear choice to make the movie as joyful as possible. I suspect he will try to raise the stakes, at least tonally, for the next one.

In Days of Future Past, the execution was so good that you forget it is a foregone conclusion and are holding your breath. That is great storytelling right there. AT least it is in my opinion.

Well I don't disagree with anything you said there other than the part about forgetting about the foregone conclusion. That part didn't work for me. The only time I was at the edge of my seat during that film was in the final Mystique/Magneto/Charles confrontation with the whole world watching. While I knew the future would be undone, I had no idea HOW, and therefore had now idea which way that confrontation was gonna go. So that was a great suspenseful moment. And I enjoyed the movie quite a bit (my favorite X-Men to date), but it definitely wasn't the visceral experience for me that it was for you. The X-Men movies have only ever managed to get me invested in one or two members of their ensembles at a time, so I'm never that into most of the mutant ensemble action. So many of the mutants seem totally disposable to me, like they just exist to show off their powers then disappear.

Weirdly, the Avengers was more visceral and intense for me just because of the adrenaline I was getting from the sheer joy of that final battle (and the helicarrier sequence). I was just so pumped watching these epic comic book splash pages come to life (featuring a full ensemble of characters that I was invested in), that I too was on the edge of my seat...in a totally different way, haha. Which is why I've said before, The Avengers was like a rare, once-in-a-lifetime theater-going experience for me. The moment I walked out, I immediately wanted to turn around and buy another ticket to watch it again (and I totally would have if it wasn't an advance screening, lol). Days of Future Past was a damn good movie, but it was still just a movie to me. I didn't come out with my mind blown or the urge to buy another ticket right then and there. Was it a more effectively dramatic story? Of course, but I've seen plenty of great dramatic stories in my time, some of them even featuring superheroes...but I've rarely experienced anything in a movie theater like The Avengers. *shrugs*

 

[psylockolussus]

Yes, DOFP was more suspenseful! One of the many reasons why it is the better movie!

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I would say it is a matter of execution. On a visceral, emotional level, I am on the edge of my seat when I first see Days of Future Past. Going in I know that the future will be prevented and (likely) X3 will be as well. But in the moment, I feel like the fate of the world is over as Magneto destroys the White House's South Lawn. And when Mystique turns the gun on Trask, and Xavier reaches out to her, it feels like an authentic character moment that you want to see her commence.

With The Avengers it was just fun. All the heroes were making quips and having fun for most of it. "I'm bringing the party to you"/"That doesn't look like a party," "Puny god," whatever lame line they give Hawkeye when he is bantering with Stark about how the aliens can't bank, and the rapport between Cap and Black Widow when she "catches a ride."

It felt more like a party complete with Hulk sucker punching Thor. The only time Whedon really raises the stakes is when Iron Man calls Pepper and she doesn't pick up. Otherwise, it is fun, but not very suspenseful.

I imagine Whedon is aware of this and it was a clear choice to make the movie as joyful as possible. I suspect he will try to raise the stakes, at least tonally, for the next one.

In Days of Future Past, the execution was so good that you forget it is a foregone conclusion and are holding your breath. That is great storytelling right there. AT least it is in my opinion.

Couldnt agree more with this post, this sums up my feelings on both movies perfectly.

I think the things you pointed are why TA suffers on repeat viewings, I loved it the 1st time I watched it, was truly in awe of the movie. But the more I have watched it the more I have realised there are not many, if ANY moments that truly hit you gut and resonate and are close to having the tears flowing. To me its moments like that that truly make re-watching a movie multiple times rewarding. And yeah, the constant joking around in the final battle of TA didnt exactly make it seem like this was a dire situation.

Its strange because Serenity had many of these moments, yet TA didnt, its why I always say in my posts I dont think Marvel truly let Whedon off the leash with TA. And again in Serenity, the jokes took a back seat and some real dramatic and emotional moments came.

In DOFP, in just the finale alone, I was on the verge of tears around 3 times, and throughout the whole movie about 6/7 times. Its those moments that truly make a movie resonate IMO and while fun is great, it loses its impact upon multiple viewings, but emotion, excellent story-telling and nail-biting drama are the things that make you watch these movies years later and still love them, and for me DOFP had a lot more of those moments, and they were all brilliantly executed.

 

[psylockolussus]

I cried watching DOFP! It was that good!

 

[Visualiza]

I cried watching DOFP! It was that good!

People cry during all sorts of different movies, good, bad, and everything in-between.

I've noticed a lot of people bandying that about lately, but I think that's a pretty arbitrary measuring stick in terms of a movie's quality.

That speaks more to people's sensibilities than it does the quality of the movie.

 

[Lord]

If you go into the Michael Bay forums you'll even notice people that cryed during Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen.

 

[DA_Champion]

People cry during all sorts of different movies, good, bad, and everything in-between.

I've noticed a lot of people bandying that about lately, but I think that's a pretty arbitrary measuring stick in terms of a movie's quality.

That speaks more to people's sensibilities than it does the quality of the movie.

The one I can't stand is:

"Everybody in my theatre loved the movie."
and also:
"Everybody in my theatre hated the movie."

 

[The Endless]

Who cried during Revenge of the Fallen? I must find them, and destroy them.

 

[Visualiza]

The one I can't stand is:

"Everybody in my theatre loved the movie."
and also:
"Everybody in my theatre hated the movie."

Likewise.

Unless we're strictly talking about audience reactions, I don't think it usually matters one way or the other. I think that most people tend to project their experience onto the audience anyway, as I really doubt you're paying much attention to them unless they're a distraction or annoyance.

But on the crying subject, that's starting to become something of an audience cliche to me. Maybe a fad, I'm not really sure how to classify it, but it seems like people just have to mention that as a means of validating a movie's emotional weight. That's a backhanded justification, because it doesn't say much about the content of the drama itself. Peter Seller's The Party left me in tears as well, but not for its emotional impact, I'll say that much. *shrugs*

 

[Visualiza]

Who cried during Revenge of the Fallen? I must find them, and destroy them.

[YT]mrSWSx35Zok[/YT]

Sorry...couldn't resist.

 

[Lord]

Who cried during Revenge of the Fallen? I must find them, and destroy them.

Here

http://www.shootfortheedit.com/forum/showthread.php?6781-how-did-the-emotional-part-of-the-movie-grab-u

Have fun.