The Batman Spoiler Discussion Thread

[antsman41]

I feel like along with the acting, the writing didn't do Barry any favors. "Don't be sad, you did so well" doesn't sound like something Joker would say. And It doesn't help that Barry sounds like a teenager when he says it.

It makes me wonder what Kieran Culkin would have done, as he has that kind of smarmy, wise guy voice...

He sounded just like how Dixon or Grant wrote him.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

He sounded just like how Dixon or Grant wrote him.

Which feels a little out of place in this film.

 

[SpideyZERO]

I just feel like because Bruce is so...quiet - there's not a whole lot for me to form an opinion over or about. He has presence - but that's kinda...it?

And while everyone is saying Batman is the focus of this film - and I'm happy about that - I...don't feel like that automatically means he has an arc or much of a character, either.

Yes, he ends the film saying he needs to be a different Batman, a symbol of hope and such. Which is great stuff. But it kinda feels unearned (as it's only in the last few minutes) and only said in voiceover. Yes, it shows him helping people to safety - but there's nothing to suggest Batman at the beginning of the film wouldn't have done anything different, here.

I quite like this take, but I do agree that it could have be done better and more time allocated to Batman's realization. The turning points imo for Batman was when he realized that he inspired violence and especially mass murderer like Riddler. This drove him to be better than just simply vengeance. There were some parts that show Batman realizing in the end. For example he lost it at the Riddler goons and stopped himself in time, and then almost killed himself cutting the live wire to save more people.

I really wished that there were more Bruce at the end too. I see influence of Zero Year in this movie (Bruce being Batman full time, realizing that he has to be better than just a vigilante etc, Gotham flooded), and that comic has Bruce standing in front of a crowd to inspire people. The movie imo should have that scene at the end. For example at the end when the new mayor giving some speech, she could have ended with introducing Bruce to shows that Bruce has changed for the better and this would come full circle as the mayor was asking Bruce to do more for the city.

Maybe the sequel The Bruce Wayne will touch on how Bruce Wayne can help.

 

[antsman41]

Joker should… he’s unique, he’s different, he’s the Joker.

 

[dhandler01]

"To me the description of him looking like the monster in the movie "Slither" was the most accurate, it didn't look like he cut himself up with a knife but more or less that it's a birth defect given you could see his teeth up all the way to the height of his nose, definitely something you can't really do medically"

I think any description you get is going to be half BS even from us. It was hard to see what he looked like even in IMAX. I think a lot of people are seeing what they want to see...

 

[OnLeatherWings]

There were some parts that show Batman realizing in the end. For example he lost it at the Riddler goons and stopped himself in time, and then almost killed himself cutting the live wire to save more people.

To counter a bit - I don't feel those examples accomplish that.

Batman already stated he doesn't cross 'that line' and doesn't kill, earlier in the film. Knowing that already, him 'losing it' on the goon didn't seem like he was going to kill the guy - it came off as him going berserk from the adrenaline shot.

There's nothing to suggest that Batman at the start of the film wouldn't have cut that wire, too.

 

[dhandler01]

The wing suit fall is literally treated like a slapstick gag. They cut directly to him back in a tower with Gordon, wearing a fresh cape.

This Batman is basically as invulnerable as robocop despite implications otherwise - the movie definitely tries to have it both ways.

I do love how the movie treats the no kill rule, though.

Again is this your complain with every Batman film because it is no different no matter who the director is.

 

[dhandler01]

I would love to get a better look at the prosthetic and everything. And I know Barry is a good actor.

But yeah, I don't know. It didn't add a ton for me.

One of the brilliant aspects of the Joker card flip in BB is your imagination immediately runs wild wondering what the Joker in that universe is going to be. I mean, I guess that element is there to an extent here, but it's much less so when you can (kinda) see and hear them, you know what actor it is, and it still doesn't leave too much of an impression. I do like the idea of Joker being more a background player in this series who doesn't come to the fore until later, so it could pay off.

I just wonder if planting that seed here was worth the gamble of kind of chaining yourself creatively to that. I guess kudos to Reeves if he really has that clear of a vision for how he wants to depict Joker in this universe, but I wonder if there would've been a benefit to approaching that with more of a fresh set of eyes after going through the experience of making this film and seeing how it's received, etc. And it did feel a lot like a MCU post-credits scene that just so happened to be in the movie. I think they should've just owned it and put it after the credits.

I dont think they are tied to it, cause I dont think he will be in the next film outside of maybe another Arkham scene. I have a feeling if there is a trilogy the last one will be a full on Arkham Asylum royal rumble style film.

 

[dhandler01]

There definitely is a "ah let's just rip the band-aid off" type of feel to it. I mean, I get where you're coming from. But considering we've seen a lot of Joker lately, I'm not sure it was necessary. It also contributes to the "multiple epilogues until the movie finally just stops" syndrome it has. I also wonder if it was put in there to quell any speculation that Phoenix's Joker was going to cross over with this (I still don't think that would've been a terrible idea...don't shoot lol)

I wouldnt be surprised. And yeah that idea sucks JP is way too old to be Joker in this universe...

 

[Art Vandelay]

I mean… TDK did RE-cast Rachel Dawes, it’s not like we’ve seen so much that Kieran Culkin couldn’t step in He’d be five billion times better. Ugh that scene is just so cringe, and not in the way Joker should make you cringe.

Also, I bring up Culkin just because he sounds naturally like what Barry is attempting to do with his performance.

 

[dhandler01]

I think if tomorrow they wanted to recast Joker they could and 95% of the people wouldn't even notice. Even if they fast tracked a sequel with Joker I am not sure anyone would remember who played the part or the exact nature of what he looked like (excluding the likes of us cause we are weirdos) since it is hard to tell anyways. The scene is a little stinger to show Riddler isn't done yet and that there is more to Gotham than just the likes of the criminal underground and some incel style crazies. And I guarantee it was Reeves behind it he had complete control of this film and it is something a Bat Superfan would do.

The nice thing is since this is its own narrative they can make whatever choices they want and not have it affect anything else. That is doubly true for a 2 minute scene of two people talking through the walls of a cell If they don't have a good Joker story to tell they wont. They aren't tied to anything other than Joker and Riddler are currently in Arkham, and they can even switch that up if they so choose. I mean Marvel recast the Hulk after his own solo film...recasting a showed Joker is easy

Kieran Culkin though would be an awesome Joker!

 

[OnLeatherWings]

Anyone else bummed they killed off Falcone?

I loved him a lot - really sad he won't be in this series again.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

Was I the only one who...kinda forgot The Riddler was in this film? Like, he was out of the film for so long at one point - then he shot Falcone and I was like "Oh, yeah, he's in this."

 

[flygerr5]

Anyone else bummed they killed off Falcone?

I loved him a lot - really sad he won't be in this series again.

I personally think it's likely we see Falcone in both spinoff shows

 

[flygerr5]

I mean… TDK did RE-cast Rachel Dawes, it’s not like we’ve seen so much that Kieran Culkin couldn’t step in He’d be five billion times better. Ugh that scene is just so cringe, and not in the way Joker should make you cringe.

Seriously? It was that bad to you? I thought it was amazing. Barry is such a good choice. He felt really creepy to me and his laugh was perfect

 

[legendkillin]

See, I'm just....kinda tired of waiting for Joker in these movies after all the speculating we did so I'm glad we at least have a vague idea of what he'll be like and look like in this universe.

I do agree though that this scene feels rushed. And with everything else seeming to be top-notch I won't discard Barry's Joker just yet.

I don't want another Joker I feel like they force him in since it is the most iconic hero/villain dynamic but it does not need to be in every version.

We know they have been scared off from powered or weird looking characters since Mr.Freeze. That means no
Poison Ivy though I doubt they would have Batman actually fight her
Solomon Grundy since he is CGI and would be a brute
Clayface I would love since the character was an actor maybe have him be multiple actors and do mind games they don't need actual cgi but today cgi can be so good it may not matter
Killer Croc not happening and they used in Suicide Squad
Man Bat not happening


I would like to see Hugo Strange, maybe he works at Arkham in the movies.

 

[legendkillin]

So, someone who saw the movie compared Joker's face to the monster from "Slither". They compared it to a birth defect rather than a knife scar.

View attachment 53649

Yeah even though I knew it was Joker it looked a bit more Two-Face like.

 

[AndyTrevino]

Barry's Joker voice works for me better than most just because he sounds very friendly. Like he'd catch you off-guard if his face wasn't so fugly. It's an interesting contrast to me

 

[Lautox]

What's the song in falcone's place when he is playing pool and Bruce enters?

 

[Dragoncaine]

I think we're getting a little too hung up on a 2-minute scene for an incarnation of the Joker we won't see for another 3 years minimum. Plenty of time for a great actor like Keoghan to refine his approach and actually dig in. Anyone who's seen Killing of a Sacred Deer should feel excited by the possibilities!

 

[flygerr5]

I think we're getting a little too hung up on a 2-minute scene for an incarnation of the Joker we won't see for another 3 years minimum. Plenty of time for a great actor like Keoghan to refine his approach and actually dig in. Anyone who's seen Killing of a Sacred Deer should feel excited by the possibilities!

Lol where do people pull these numbers from.... 3 years minimum? First of all, it's likely we see another 2-3 minute scene of Joker very very soon if Matt is indeed planning on showing it to us. It's likely he appears in the GCPD show, possibly even as a lead character. And finally, its not out of the realm of possibility that they start production on a sequel film this year and it releases in 2024. So yeah we'll potentially be seeing a lot more of this Joker soon. I dont think we'll have to wait 3+ years

 

[Lautox]

Anyone got any Blue Velvet vibes after watching the film?

 

[flygerr5]

The best way I could describe this Joker's appearance would be heavy burn marks all across the side of his face, burn marks leading up to the side of his head next to his ear. Curly/spiky short hair that is ONLY on the top. Heavy scarring around his mouth but that was the hardest part to see. Thats all I got. Somebody needs to take screenshots and brighten it up so we can get a better look.

 

[Lautox]

The best way I could describe this Joker's appearance would be heavy burn marks all across the side of his face, burn marks leading up to the side of his head next to his ear. Curly/spiky short hair that is ONLY on the top. Heavy scarring around his mouth but that was the hardest part to see. Thats all I got. Somebody needs to take screenshots and brighten it up so we can get a better look.

Hey man do you remember the song that was playing in falcone's office when he was playing pool? I have it stuck in my mind

 

[Dragoncaine]

Lol where do people pull these numbers from.... 3 years minimum? First of all, it's likely we see another 2-3 minute scene of Joker very very soon if Matt is indeed planning on showing it to us. It's likely he appears in the GCPD show, possibly even as a lead character. And finally, its not out of the realm of possibility that they start production on a sequel film this year and it releases in 2024. So yeah we'll potentially be seeing a lot more of this Joker soon. I dont think we'll have to wait 3+ years

Forgot about the shows so you're right there (potentially), but my main point is that it's a 2-minute scene whereas Keoghan will have much more time to fully develop his iteration of the character in the sequel or TV series.