The Batman Spoiler Discussion Thread

[BatLobster]

Yeah I guess a big part of the reason for including the Waynes is how the renewal fund is tied into the overarching corruption story. It's hard to imagine losing that aspect of it. I'm just not sure the ultimate resolution to the mystery, or Batman's arc end up feeling like as much of a satisfying payoff as it could've to all of that. In the end it's kind of like the city fell under Falcone's control all due to a tragic mistake that Thomas made. I'm not sure what the ultimate takeaway is supposed to be there.

I think all the elements are there on some level, there are some great ideas that flesh out a rich backstory for Gotham, but it doesn't quite gel for me in the way I want it to as a storyline in the film.

 

[DeadlyWest]

Yeah I guess a big part of the reason for including the Waynes is how the renewal fund is tied into the overarching corruption story. It's hard to imagine losing that aspect of it. I'm just not sure the ultimate resolution to the mystery, or Batman's arc end up feeling like as much of a satisfying payoff as it could've to all of that. In the end it's kind of like the city fell under Falcone's control all due to a tragic mistake that Thomas made. I'm not sure what the ultimate takeaway is supposed to be there.

I think all the elements are there on some level, there are some great ideas that flesh out a rich backstory for Gotham, but it doesn't quite gel for me in the way I want it to as a storyline in the film.

I think for me personally, it was essentially what I wanted from a Waynes corrupt storyline in the first place. Make Bruce confront the inevitable fact that his parents were not these perfect paragons that he remembers them as. Make him learn to live with that. And...the movie did. I think it also helps to mirror Bruce's own character arc by almost being an inversion of it. Thomas who was normally a paragon made a very dark decision and unfortunately paid the price for it. Bruce, who is normally a dark and rage filled individual, makes the decision to try and be a paragon. In a way, he learns from his father's mistake that his darkness doesn't have to define him. I think it contributes to his decision at the end of the movie to forsake vengeance in favour of hope. Bruce at the start of this movie would not have immediately jumped off that railing, imo. He would be too caught up in his emotions and wouldn't really know what to do. But because of all he's learned over the movie, he realizes he can make a difference and have his mistake of being Vengeance not define him. Because the mistake his father made didn't define him and doesn't represent who he was.

 

[antsman41]

It's funny how this is one film, and probably not since BBegins, where the pre-production art is very good/great while being outshined in the actual film.

I've been let down by art / final product with the MCU since Iron Man III and especially with the Star Wars ST.

 

[Boom]

So many scenes leaking on Twitter yet the Joker scene is nowhere to be found.

 

[Blade Hoarder]

People are embarrassed by it.

 

[chintai80]

i am looking forward to seeing keoghan's take on the joker, but that arkham scene w/ him and riddler near the end felt tacked on like it was a studio mandate.

dialog was too on the nose - like "HEY LOOK ITS ME THE JOKER."

it's probably my only minor gripe with the movie.

 

[VonRomberg]

I’ve seen a decent amount of “Are you sure it’s the Joker?” to make me think it wasn’t obvious enough for the GA necessarily.

The execution wasn’t the tidiest but had there been absolutely nothing and it leaked that Reeves had shot Joker footage but cut it this whole forum would’ve been frothing at the mouth with “At least show us something, even a trashy last minute post credit scene!”.

Basically, people will nitpick even the best execution, let alone a misstep.

 

[DeadlyWest]

While it definitely feels a bit tacked on, Reeves himself has explained why he included the scene and I personally like it a lot. It happens almost immediately after Penguin's scene where he's looking out into the city. It's another insight into this world and very directly showing the potential consequences of the power vacuum left by Falcone. Something which in the comics and even arguably TDK trilogy spelled the end for the Gotham gangster and the beginning of the Gotham supervillain. Showing Joker clearly planting the seeds for a new plan and partnership with Ed is a great way to show that changing of the guard imo

 

[Doctor Jones]

It was conveyed fine with the Penguin, a character we've been following throughout the entire movie. I get Reeves' intent, but by itself, it feels jarring. It would have played better if the first scene was in it to set it up. Because then it would have made us go, "Oh, ****." and I do think Reeves' intent would have hit home with that knowledge. In the context of the movie we've just been introduced to this character and are assuming it's the Joker after all this has happened. It's just too much to introduce by that point when everything is winding down.

 

[kolyid]

i am looking forward to seeing keoghan's take on the joker, but that arkham scene w/ him and riddler near the end felt tacked on like it was a studio mandate.

dialog was too on the nose - like "HEY LOOK ITS ME THE JOKER."

it's probably my only minor gripe with the movie.

People are making such a big deal of a less than 2 min scene which made sense in the movie. It worked perfectly well with Batman’s ending narration and the end of the Riddlers story. If it had been that deleted scene with the Joker and Batman in the middle of the movie you would have more of a case. I think people just have it in their head they don’t want the Joker in the movies so they will say it didn’t make sense.

 

[AndyTrevino]

Quite a few people keep saying that was Two-Face like they're either in denial of a Batman trilogy having The Joker (GASP), or don't even know the character that well.

Like bro he literally talks about clowns and has a very giggly laugh, as if we're expected to know who this character is.

To be fair I certainly don't begrudge anyone not wanting him in this first movie but to assume he was never going to show up in this universe at all is, well, to be perfectly honest it's quite foolish.

 

[dhandler01]

I thought it was Two Face at first...its not that far fetched to be honest.

And there is zero chance this was a studio mandate. If anything WB probably would have told him to lose it to save a few minutes run time.

 

[Vaibow]

Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for

It's very Brando/donner like... a great quote that can be used in future generations to define this character..

That’s Batman

Can’t wait to see where Reeves takes him going forward and how the people of Gotham will view him after the events of The Batman

I hope Reeves is able to still keep him mysterious... that intro, with the shadows... the fear of him... I hope that is still kept and Reeves is able to maybe show us POV of people he helps, like, just spit balling here, but like, we see him leaving a brothel and the pimps all tied up, gcd on the way and women, young girls feeling brave enough to escape and walk out, because the Batman is on the scene...

Or like a scene, similar to the intro, where someone is attacked and the batman appears, saves them, returns their belongings and he still has that's silent stare... then goes. I'm sure Reeves will.

I still don't fully get how what he learns about his father has anything to do with the turn he makes at the end.

Like...remove that plot entirely. You still have a story about Batman realizing he's inspired Riddler and an extremist militia. In the end realizing vengeance isn't enough and he has to do better. Seems to track perfectly fine to me.

Beyond that, the Waynes aren't even really depicted as corrupt. The film immediately walks that back and assures us that Thomas was a good man who made a tragic mistake in trying to protect is wife.

This is where the movie feels a bit muddled and bloated to me. Maybe those are threads that will pay off later, but it detracts for me a bit in terms of viewing it as a self-contained story.

For me, it just humanized them more, his dad was a good guy at the end of the day, even if perceptions differed etc and it tied him to Falcone - also, I feel moving forward, his mum's mental health may play a part on bruce, maybe explain why he is dressed as a bat to heal.

From the concept art book:

Concept art of Batman saving people from the flood

Batman helping out in a national emergency... that felt very heroic, and because it was confined to a small area, it felt personal too... it very very real.

I'd like to see a fire in an apartment building, fire crews struggle to put it out - people trapped... batman shows up, mysterious, just goes straight in and rescues a family.. that be cool too...

 

[Web-Head]

I’ve seen a decent amount of “Are you sure it’s the Joker?” to make me think it wasn’t obvious enough for the GA necessarily.

The execution wasn’t the tidiest but had there been absolutely nothing and it leaked that Reeves had shot Joker footage but cut it this whole forum would’ve been frothing at the mouth with “At least show us something, even a trashy last minute post credit scene!”.

Basically, people will nitpick even the best execution, let alone a misstep.

It wasn't. A co-worker or two both thought it was Two-Face. My brother thought it was him at first too until the "clown" comment and of course the laugh

 

[flickchick85]

My friend thought it was Two-Face as well. I think that's pretty common, tbh.

 

[emielaen]

It definitely looked like him for a minute there. I didn't love the laugh or the voice tbh, but the dialogue was fine for me. But I do like Reeves and Keoghan a lot so I'm all open for it.

 

[Vaibow]

I knew it was coming and heard descriptions of the scene... it was nothing like I envisioned.

Didn't Reeves say he was having fun with it and he kinda alluded to the fact it's ambiguous on purpose?

To me, it was too obscure to say it was definitely the joker, I felt the clown comment was too on the nose, like, it felt like it was trying to say it was, without saying so.

it did feel a little.... not cheap or rushed, but I felt the character deserved more... someone said earlier that they felt he sounded impish... I agree... if I saw a whole movie of that vision, I would be kinda.... put off. Not suicide squad levels, but still.

 

[VonRomberg]

I think certain concessions have to be made to keep the GA in the loop and excited for a follow up, and even this scene wasn’t clear enough for everyone to get it immediately.

It’s a symptom of the MCU conditioning the GA’s expectations in a way, and it’s fine. I liked the scene for what it was, and I thought it showcased enough.

I maintain that if the scene had been omitted there would’ve been as much if not more complaints.

 

[Boom]

No disrespect to those who thought he was Two-Face, but Keoghan in no way talked or sounded like someone who had at one point been a well-respected district attorney.

 

[Captain Tired]

You say that, but then neither did Tommy Lee Jones.

 

[Stringer]

During my one and only viewing I felt we were supposed to factor in Bruce's realization about his parents, the truth of Selina's backstory, and Batmans understanding of what Gordon is sacrificing to work with him (hence you're a good cop), as the change from his narrow minded perspective on his mission. It was completely solidified with the Riddler goon scene.

 

[VonRomberg]

I thought the narrative completely fulfilled the Vengeant individual -> Hopeful symbol transformation by the end.

It was clear by his outro monologue that he doesn’t see himself as one dude dealing with criminals and violence anymore. The Batman is now a movement, there’s a public that supports him, a police department that now sees him as an asset, and perhaps even a team that may add a member or two to the Bat-family. Not to mention the obvious deployment of the Bruce Wayne persona to help the Batman’s aims.

I particularly liked how the trajectory with the cops worked. Initially it was just Gordon and everyone else thought he’s a freak and it was a mistake involving Batman. By the end the mustache cop was actually working with Batman, and the emergency services saw him helping civilians. It’s a full circle from the scared guy from the Subway to the woman who grasped his hand as she gets flown away.

 

[Vaibow]

I thought the narrative completely fulfilled the Vengeant individual -> Hopeful symbol transformation by the end.

It was clear by his outro monologue that he doesn’t see himself as one dude dealing with criminals and violence anymore. The Batman is now a movement, there’s a public that supports him, a police department that now sees him as an asset, and perhaps even a team that may add a member or two to the Bat-family. Not to mention the obvious deployment of the Bruce Wayne persona to help the Batman’s aims.

I particularly liked how the trajectory with the cops worked. Initially it was just Gordon and everyone else thought he’s a freak and it was mistake involving Batman. By the end the mustache cop was actually working with Batman, and the emergency services saw him helping civilians. It’s a full circle from the scared guy from the Subway to the woman who grasped his hand as she gets flown away.

Nice, I can see it inspiring others... totally.

That's how I can see them handling robin, if at all - a kid that is inspired and bruce takes him under his wing to protect him - he can't protect them all, but if he saves one, it's good.
so many aspects of the batman lore can be translated to screen, even robin... it's just how it's handled.

I was thinking about his suit - robin that is.. i have faith in Reeves for sure.

 

[Kindred]

So I have a request.
Does anyone have the opening monologue from Bruce quoted?

 

[Gothamsknight]

No disrespect to those who thought he was Two-Face, but Keoghan in no way talked or sounded like someone who had at one point been a well-respected district attorney.

Yeah, I mean, that was obviously the Joker haha. I will say Barry sounds young (which hes not), But i guess it makes sense considering how early in Batmans career this is. I just gotta get used to it.