The Batman Spoiler Discussion Thread

[C Prometheus]

People are assuming Batman already put Joker in Arkham sometime during year one. What if Joker has been in Arkham for years pre Batman and has been planning his grand escape this whole time. Maybe Nashton will have a part to play in that since Joker seemingly wants to be his friend.

While that's certainly possible, there is another leak that we've already heard about elsewhere of there potentially also being another scene showing Batman talking to Joker at Arkham that presumably wasn't included in any of the test screenings.

If that's legit, it makes me think the speculation that the GCPD show will culminate with Batman and Gordon teaming up to stop Joker for the first time is likely correct. The real question is whether or not the show will also detail Joker's origin- and if so, whether he was the Red Hood or a police officer named Stanley Merkel or any other possible origin for him.

That said, given the circumstances around how Gotham sees Batman currently and the scale of Riddler's actions, my guess is that whatever Joker did in the past was likely pretty tame compared to what Riddler accomplishes in this film and will lead Joker to really up his game whenever he gets out.

 

[flygerr5]

While that's certainly possible, there is another leak that we've already heard about elsewhere of there potentially also being another scene showing Batman talking to Joker at Arkham that presumably wasn't included in any of the test screenings.

If that's legit, it makes me think the speculation that the GCPD show will culminate with Batman and Gordon teaming up to stop Joker for the first time is likely correct. The real question is whether or not the show will also detail Joker's origin- and if so, whether he was the Red Hood or a police officer named Stanley Merkel or any other possible origin for him.

That said, given the circumstances around how Gotham sees Batman currently and the scale of Riddler's actions, my guess is that whatever Joker did in the past was likely pretty tame compared to what Riddler accomplishes in this film and will lead Joker to really up his game whenever he gets out.

Agreed 100%. I'm not expecting Joker to commit some large scale city-wide attack in the GCPD show. Much smaller, but still heinous and disturbing enough to get Batman's attention. I'm thinking maybe like a hostage situation where Joker kidnaps people and the GCPD has to collaborate with Batman for the first time to locate and free the hostages. Just theorizing

 

[boba loba]

Agreed 100%. I'm not expecting Joker to commit some large scale city-wide attack in the GCPD show. Much smaller, but still heinous and disturbing enough to get Batman's attention. I'm thinking maybe like a hostage situation where Joker kidnaps people and the GCPD has to collaborate with Batman for the first time to locate and free the hostages. Just theorizing

Mattson Tomlin said if he revealed how he was hired, it would be some kind of spoiler. Tomlin wrote a script a while back that was essentially a Batman vs Joker story. Maybe the GCPD show might culminate with something similar to what happened in that script. If it's not that, I'm not sure what the spoiler is that Tomlin was referring to.

 

[antsman41]

Agreed 100%. I'm not expecting Joker to commit some large scale city-wide attack in the GCPD show. Much smaller, but still heinous and disturbing enough to get Batman's attention. I'm thinking maybe like a hostage situation where Joker kidnaps people and the GCPD has to collaborate with Batman for the first time to locate and free the hostages. Just theorizing

I'm guessing the show will be 8-10 episodes. Batman's presence will be felt throughout... and Barry's Joker will as well. Think about those first 4-8 issues of Gotham Central. Batman was rarely seen in that comic. This will be the Gordon figuring out his relationship within the GCPD and the blossoming of his relationship with Batman.

Then, Pattinson will cameo in the finale when he takes down Barry. This the layout of Mando s2, but with an Oz/The Wire/Mindhunter type show.

 

[kolyid]

I think I'm a prime candidate for being rubbed the wrong way as I've been pretty vocal about being sick of seeing the character. Didn't like the Leto version, really didn't like Joker 2019, just think the character needs a break. But the idea of this scene still excites me.

Heres the problem. People like on this forum are hypercritical and hyper online. The general public are going to clamor for the Joker because they know the Joker is THE main villain of Batman. The only thing that Reeves needs to do is be able to differentiate the 2019 Joker (which was incredibly popular despite you not liking it) from his Joker so people know this is a different universe.

I don’t think the general public has the fatigue of the Joker that everybody else on this forum talks about. Look how popular the Spiderman films are despite how many different films there are.

 

[LvtLeeTDK]

Can someone please sum up or give me a link to the latest review of the test screening? I want to know about the audiences' reaction and opinions, but don't want to be spoiled, so I'm kinda reluctant to skim through the previous pages

 

[boba loba]

Can someone please sum up or give me a link to the latest review of the test screening? I want to know about the audiences' reaction and opinions, but don't want to be spoiled, so I'm kinda reluctant to skim through the previous pages

They said people clapped at the end. They also didn't think the third act was great and that it could've used a scene or two. For them, first act great, second act good, and third act could use some work. The movie is 10-15 minutes longer now after the test screenings so whether that's credits or not, it seems they have added some new scenes to possibly fix that

 

[LvtLeeTDK]

They said people clapped at the end. They also didn't think the third act was great and that it could've used a scene or two. For them, first act great, second act good, and third act could use some work. The movie is 10-15 minutes longer now after the test screenings so whether that's credits or not, it seems they have added some new scenes to possibly fix that

So basically it goes downhill from start to finish, even though it's still very good. Hmm. I would prefer the opposite tbh.

 

[Art Vandelay]

I wonder if the less then positive view of the third act is due to it being a bit of a downbeat ending?

 

[Dragoncaine]

So basically it goes downhill from start to finish, even though it's still very good. Hmm. I would prefer the opposite tbh.

I try not to put too much stock into one person's view. If the ending is bold, it could be great but not sit right with people immediately until they sleep on it and reflect. Who knows?

the 10-15 minutes added since the test screening might indicate the addition of a couple scenes.

 

[BMW 224]

Heres the problem. People like on this forum are hypercritical and hyper online. The general public are going to clamor for the Joker because they know the Joker is THE main villain of Batman. The only thing that Reeves needs to do is be able to differentiate the 2019 Joker (which was incredibly popular despite you not liking it) from his Joker so people know this is a different universe.

I don’t think the general public has the fatigue of the Joker that everybody else on this forum talks about. Look how popular the Spiderman films are despite how many different films there are.

To play devil advocate I think it's very possible that people won't accept a new Joker after Phoenix so easily.

Barry Keoangh will obviously be better but right now he's in a similar situation that Jared Leto was after Heath Ledger.

Joaquin Phoenix Joker really struck a cord with general audiences and thousand of people see him as THE JOKER successor to Heath Ledger.

Joker 2 is also happening too so if Phoenix nocks it out of the park again going full Joker with zero Arthur Fleck it's gonna fuel more competition and pathetic comparisons.


Barry Keoangh has to measure up to a Oscar Worthy phenomenon Joker that is Joaquin Phoenix which won't be a easy task for the General audience's to get on board.

Especially those who still think Joaquin Phoenix should crossover with Pattinson which most of the people I've talked to still are crossing there fingers for.

A "villain" Joker may be less interesting than a "sympathic" Joker despite for the gernal public most of us her preferring the villan side.

I can already see controversity over Barry being bleached instead of using make-up from casuals.

It's gonna be like if Heath Ledger (rest his soul) never passed away and after proving himself and becoming THE JOKER and still continued playing him while another actor is also playing Joker in different series.

 

[AndyTrevino]

After a sympathetic Joker, a more overt "villain" Joker is the best way to spice things up.

 

[BMW 224]

After a sympathetic Joker, a more overt "villain" Joker is the best way to spice things up.

I agree completely.

I'm not really the biggest fan of "sympathic" Joker anyways so Barry Keoangh take is already more my style.

I'm just not convinced that the general audience won't see as one demionsal or going backwards instead of forward after Phoenix.

For them "sympathetic" Joker is something new since every previous Joker was more insane and evil so it may take alot for them to accept going back to the "old way" as someone I talked to put it.

So much of the general audience now see Joker as misunderstood mentally ill victim who transformed by society and is the real good guy in gotham city hell so many relate to Joker thanks to Phoenix.

Who's to say they won't take it as a personal attack to make Joker evil again ?

Or some "woke' agenda ?

Barry Keoangh and Matt Reeves are smartly doing everything they can to differentiate there take from Phoenix but I'm worried that it will be rejected for that very reason.

 

[AndyTrevino]

Yeah and that's exactly what's so ****ing frustrating. This mass murderer is now seen as some misunderstood voice for the lower class. As if we didn't have enough people "relating" to him already.

Luckily with Riddler being a terrorist with a goal here we can almost guarantee they won't do that same thing with Joker.

 

[BMW 224]

Yeah and that's exactly what's so ****ing frustrating. This mass murderer is now seen as some misunderstood voice for the lower class. As if we didn't have enough people "relating" to him already.

Luckily with Riddler being a terrorist with a goal here we can almost guarantee they won't do that same thing with Joker.

Yeah also the difference between Riddler from this film and Joker from 2019 really shows how better Matt Reeves is as director and writer compared to Todd Phillips.

Gill Colson was probably not a good person and was corrupt but that doesn't change that he was three demionsal human being with good qualities as well with a wife that loved him and tried his best to save the people in this funeral was well while cleary being terrifyied.

It sends home the message that yes he deserved justice but Riddler's version of justice is just as bad as the people he's killing which makes him complex and whole scene more compelling to watch.

It's not black and white and you don't really side with Riddler or Gill.



Compare that to any of that kills or victims in Joker 2019 there's a remarkable lack of nunace or depth.

 

[emielaen]

So basically it goes downhill from start to finish, even though it's still very good. Hmm. I would prefer the opposite tbh.

Lol that seems a little reductive and a bit more negative than the source was implying

 

[Revolverr]

Take it with a Huge grain of salt.

There is more Joker that wasn't shown in the test screening. Batman and Joker have met before, and they have a conversation in Arkham. Think of Calendar Man in TLH.

I'm not going to post the exact messages that were published because the dceuleaks mod is always monitoring and I don't want to be blamed for affecting another user.
The source is from a certain group. Some members of this forum are there, actually (so they've probably already read it). The person in question apparently revealed long ago the lines that Falcone says in the latest spot, and thus has gained some credibility.

 

[WayneMB]

Take it with a Huge grain of salt.

There is more Joker that wasn't shown in the test screening. Batman and Joker have met before, and they have a conversation in Arkham. Think of Calendar Man in TLH.

I'm not going to post the exact messages that were published because the dceuleaks mod is always monitoring and I don't want to be blamed for affecting another user.
The source is from a certain group. Some members of this forum are there, actually (so they've probably already read it). The person in question apparently revealed long ago the lines that Falcone says in the latest spot, and thus has gained some credibility.

i was just about to post this. do y'all think that scene is in the final cut? or was it cut long time ago

 

[Revolverr]

i was just about to post this. do y'all think that scene is in the final cut? or was it cut long time ago

IF IT'S REAL, my guess is that it will make the final cut. Otherwise they wouldn't have shown the conversation between Riddler and Joker in the final test screening. In my opinion they just didn't want to spoil the whole thing in the first screenings and that's why they showed a little tease in the final one.

 

[boba loba]

IF IT'S REAL, it's definitely going to make the final cut. Otherwise they wouldn't have shown the conversation between Riddler and Joker in the final test screening. In my opinion they just didn't want to spoil the whole thing in the first screenings and that's why they showed a little tease in the final one.

Is this possibly the jaw-dropping moment blu ray angel was talking about all those months ago? Maybe the very first test screening showed this crazy moment in Arkham between Joker and Batman but after that first test screening. they didn't show it again and instead showed a scene between Nashton and Joker.

 

[Revolverr]

Is this possibly the jaw-dropping moment blu ray angel was talking about all those months ago? Maybe the very first test screening showed this crazy moment in Arkham between Joker and Batman but after that first test screening. they didn't show it again and instead showed a scene between Nashton and Joker.

definitely not. that guy rayangel is a joke and he was referring to the ending, it's better not to take his exaggerations seriously.

 

[flygerr5]

Take it with a Huge grain of salt.

There is more Joker that wasn't shown in the test screening. Batman and Joker have met before, and they have a conversation in Arkham. Think of Calendar Man in TLH.

I'm not going to post the exact messages that were published because the dceuleaks mod is always monitoring and I don't want to be blamed for affecting another user.
The source is from a certain group. Some members of this forum are there, actually (so they've probably already read it). The person in question apparently revealed long ago the lines that Falcone says in the latest spot, and thus has gained some credibility.

Can you DM me the messages please?

 

[marvelboy10]

Hope they go far with the waynes being corrupted, like they did really dirty things, even if they had good sides, like loved their son (to bring nuance, complex and depth).

 

[GREEN =w= DAY]

The whole concept of the Wayne’s being dirty & corrupt is an interesting take. If anyone has played the Telltale Batman game, they delve right into that and I found myself enjoying it

 

[marvelboy10]

i feel like there is a good middle ground to it, like he doesn't need to be full on tell-tale criminal but this idea that thomas was perfect seems unrealistic, especially in a city like Gotham. i always liked the idea that thomas was the perfect father and husband, and still attained those core morals that Bruce eventually inherits. Though he is also understands to get things done in Gotham, sometimes you need to associate with people like carmine. he wasnt totally evil but he also wasnt perfect at least in the business side, cause that just wouldnt work in a city like Gotham were everything is corrupt.