The Batman Spoiler Discussion Thread

Yeah also the difference between Riddler from this film and Joker from 2019 really shows how better Matt Reeves is as director and writer compared to Todd Phillips.

Gill Colson was probably not a good person and was corrupt but that doesn't change that he was three demionsal human being with good qualities as well with a wife that loved him and tried his best to save the people in this funeral was well while cleary being terrifyied.

It sends home the message that yes he deserved justice but Riddler's version of justice is just as bad as the people he's killing which makes him complex and whole scene more compelling to watch.

It's not black and white and you don't really side with Riddler or Gill.



Compare that to any of that kills or victims in Joker 2019 there's a remarkable lack of nunace or depth.
Oh I didn't mean that at all, I meant that because Riddler here is a terrorist, then this universe's Joker will have to be different.
 
before the
barry keoghan as possibly joker
, i had an idea for the sequel taking place in arkham asylum, a clautrophobic movie, horror and psychedelic with hugo strange as the villain. And the joker would be shown as an hallucination while being drugged and he would be played by no one else than... Robert Pattinson. Like the joker would be a projection of what he could possibly become if he falls into the madness. a different way to portray the joker. I think the idea could work with
barry kheogan
in the role tho. :)
 
before the
barry keoghan as possibly joker
, i had an idea for the sequel taking place in arkham asylum, a clautrophobic movie, horror and psychedelic with hugo strange as the villain. And the joker would be shown as an hallucination while being drugged and he would be played by no one else than... Robert Pattinson. Like the joker would be a projection of what he could possibly become if he falls into the madness. a different way to portray the joker. I think the idea could work with
barry kheogan
in the role tho. :)



Robert Pattinson would have been a perfect Joker.
 
The only thing that gives me pause about this other alleged Joker scene is they make a concerted effort to keep his face hidden in the scene with Nashton. So I would assume we still don't get a good look at him in this other scene then. It doesn't make sense to hide him at the end if they outright show him earlier.
 
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before the
barry keoghan as possibly joker
, i had an idea for the sequel taking place in arkham asylum, a clautrophobic movie, horror and psychedelic with hugo strange as the villain. And the joker would be shown as an hallucination while being drugged and he would be played by no one else than... Robert Pattinson. Like the joker would be a projection of what he could possibly become if he falls into the madness. a different way to portray the joker. I think the idea could work with
barry kheogan
in the role tho. :)
That's creative but at the same time that's just WAY too drastic for me. I prefer Joker to be an actual living breathing individual
 
I listened to the audiobook of that YA prequel novel.

Honestly wish I hadn't. I get that it's YA but all the motivations are overly simple and it's devoid of any real nuance. Again, I'm not used to YA stuff so take that as you will.

Here are highlights in case it is "canon"

- Bruce moved out of Wayne Manor when he was 6 and moved into Wayne Tower in Gotham with his folks.
- Wayne Manor became an orphanage after they moved.
- The Wayne's visited the Manor again when Thomas announced candidacy, Orphans sang for him. Edward Neston glared at Bruce. Bruce smiled back but is creeped out. (newspaper shot in trailer/spots)
- Edward lived in the orphanage until he was 18 and wants to be a forensic accountant. He's paying for college by delivering Italian food on a bike.
- Bruce trains with Alfred who was British intelligence. The training is just for fun. Calls it 'Bruce-jitzu'
- Batcave is an old personal Train station for Waynes under the tower in the city. Bruce and Alfred seem to be the only ones who know about it. Bruce has been using it for years as a personal lab.
- Bruce decides to become batman almost out of boredom. Is described starting the journal we heard about (being VO) chronically his nightly escapades.
- He gets the idea of utilizing Bats in his costume after seeing them in the cave (pretty simple)
- Bruce is a gear head. Has been working on the batmobile since he was 17.
- Bruce gets in a high school drag race and the racers almost run over Edward delivering food.
- Edward gets revenge by putting a pipe bomb in one of the cars at the next drag race, nearly killing Bruce's friend Dax.
- Edward is called "Ed Weird" at the orphanage. He hates Bruce because he's rich and has everything (again, simple). He's at the bottom of his graduating class. Likes puzzles.
- Oswald is one of Falcone's up and coming Lieutenants. Already goes by The Penguin by some. He moves experimental military gel out of sight from Falcone as a side hustle.
-Bruce's friend Dax runs that gel for Oswald.
- Edward feels like he can get away with crimes because "he feels he doesn't make much of an impression to anyone, so nobody remembers him."
- Edward burns Wayne Manor, still an orphanage, down (well, to "charred remains"), but pulls the fire alarm to get the orphans out before it goes up. Upset that nobody acknowledged he was the one who did it, Edward decides to leave riddles for his next crime.
- Alfred figures out that Bruce is stirring **** up at night. Although Alfred doesn't think it's entirely a good idea, It becomes their secret.
- Lexcorp and Metropolis are mentioned.
- Epilogue described Bruce prowling the streets of Gotham in an army Jacket, hat and backpack with his suit in it, searching for crimes on Halloween night. Bat signal beams up. Presumably this is where the movie begins...

It's quite simple and short. Briskly written. I don't have any problems with the things that actually happen... again, it's just void of nuance.
 
Is that account reliable? I honestly don't think thats Barry saying that line..

It's obviously Paul Dano but a bunch of numbskulls have convinced themselves it's a character that STILL is not officially confirmed. Like they'd put that in marketing material...
 
It's obviously Paul Dano but a bunch of numbskulls have convinced themselves it's a character that STILL is not officially confirmed. Like they'd put that in marketing material...

Hi, I'm "a numbskull" speaking!

I made a post a few pages back explaining why I'm not hearing Dano's voice in that audio clip and the lengths I've gone to try my damnedest to hear Dano in that clip. I listened to that clip God knows how many times, on a number of different speakers, earphones and earbuds. Any sort of variable I could think of and manage that might explain why my ears weren't hearing Dano's voice and why they were instead hearing rather distinctly the voice of Barry Keoghan, using the same accent he used in Killing of a Sacred Deer.

I was talking in the general discussion earlier about how the new audio clip of "I always loved little riddles" sounded more like Barry than it did Paul Dano. I can't prove it one way or the other, and it doesn't help that the two share a similar vocal range to one another. But I have been reviewing the audio repeatedly to try my best to figure it out.

The big difference, to me at least, is with the pronunciations they have on certain words. Listen carefully to how the voice in the first clip says "little riddles." I revisited a number of different scenes and performances in different films that Paul Dano has been in to provide myself cleaner audio samples of Dano's voice, as every confirmed audio we have from him as Riddler is layered over in some way with either a voice modulator or a jail telephone static.




Again, there's no way to be entirely certain. But the "little riddles" segment is just a bit off from the general vocalizations Dano has, not just with the confirmed Riddler dialogue samples, but with other films' samples.

In addition, the argument I've seen pop up for it being Paul is that since the line is almost exactly the same as another line from a recent promotional video that absolutely was said by Riddler ("I've always loved little puzzles"), the lack of any sort of modulation would suggest the scene takes place during the interrogation scene he shares with Batman.

... Only I'm fairly sure that the audio from 0:19 onwards in this other new commercial is from that interrogation scene. And if that's the case, regardless of if there's still some level of telephone static going on with Riddler in that scene, his pitch is now notably different from both the one we've heard numerous times with the voice modulator and the voice that loves "little riddles."



A voice that "loves little riddles" that is also quite reminiscent of Barry Keoghan's voice in Killing of a Sacred Deer.



However there is another reason that occurred to me after listening to the audio clip that makes me think it's Barry. We know for a fact that Joker and Riddler bond over riddles at the end of the film, as previously informed to us by this post and other reactions that surfaced out of the late November test screening.

And like I said in the General Thread; I could be wrong. It's not the end of the world if I'm wrong! I really don't care either way who said the line! :funny:

I'm just going off of what my ears are telling me, after listening to these audio clips over and over and over and over and over again, through phone speakers, computer speakers, earbuds and professional recording headphones.


I don't really care if I'm right or wrong here. I went into the whole thing anticipating for my ears to tell me it's Paul Dano, because I completely understand the unlikelihood of them including snippets of a secret character's performance in these sorts of advertisements. But try as I might, I'm not hearing Paul Dano.
 
I do have one issue with this joker scene.

I feel like it doesn't really make sense for Battinsons to have already faced his greatest enemy this early reckless and young and beaten him.

I got the vibe that Riddler was his first Supervillain or rogue's gallery.

It kinds undermines Joker and makes Riddler seem like a bigger threat and game changer compared to Joker in this series.

Battinson being pushed to the edge by Joker physoclilgy and won't feel as impactful now since Riddler already did that.

I mean what can Joker do that would top Riddler exposing The Wayne family as corrupt ?

Or flooding Gotham City and and causing a uprising while also killing the elite members of Gotham ?

Even Batman losing his temper and struggling not to kill has already been taken by Riddler.
Batman regularly beats Joker in all media, but that's not the point. The point is that Joker continuously comes back, straining Bruce/Batman increasingly as each encounter goes by.

It's not the first fight with Joker that's important, it's the overall struggle and dynamic.
 
Batman regularly beats Joker in all media, but that's not the point. The point is that Joker continuously comes back, straining Bruce/Batman increasingly as each encounter goes by.

It's not the first fight with Joker that's important, it's the overall struggle and dynamic.


That's true in the comics and anmie and video games.

If that what's Matt Reeves is going for than Joker has to be the main villain of the rest of the triolgy.

Which I'm not sure is possible.
 
That's true in the comics and anmie and video games.

If that what's Matt Reeves is going for than Joker has to be the main villain of the rest of the triolgy.

Which I'm not sure is possible.
Had Ledger lived I think we would of seen that dynamic from the comics come to life. As Joker said at the end of TDK they were destined to do the dance forever.

I think Joker will continue to pull the strings in the Batman sequel, with him taking centre stage in a possible 3rd.
 
Had Ledger lived I think we would of seen that dynamic from the comics come to life. As Joker said at the end of TDK they were destined to do the dance forever.

I think Joker will continue to pull the strings in the Batman sequel, with him taking centre stage in a possible 3rd.


I stand corrected.

That could work extremely well.

As matter of fact that could be Matt Reeves plan.
 
Its the same as the whole six/ten joker thing, this board makes people go crazy.

It’s Dano, enough said.

Now I'm hoping it is Barry.

seinfeld-for.gif
 
the second half that says "Riddles" is most likely Keoghan's Joker

That's what I'm thinking. Because it's not just that it doesn't sound like Dano to me, it's that it doesn't sound like Dano as Riddler. His Riddler voice is deeper, more monotone. Almost slurred. The inflection given on "riddles" sounds quite different to me. It has more personality.
 

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