The Batman Spoiler Discussion Thread

[BMW 224]

How is his mental state more "realistic"?

How is his fighting style?

How are his gadgets?

How is Bruce Wayne more realistic?

How are his parents?

Realistic is a very specific term here. So it' be nice to know what you mean.

His mental state is more realistic because he's mentally ill and nihilistic consumed with rage and anger that he actually thinks dressing up like a bat and beating people up is gonna solve Gotham's problem. His immaturity and tramua and mental health issues blind him from seeing that Bruce Wayne really could help Gotham City even more than Batman.

His fighting style isn't swooping in taking on entire army's of ninjas or thugs so fast that he's blur or able to doge gun fire pick grown men and disappear into the sky He's simply a brawler who gets up and personal with his oppenets and tries his best to fight them.

His gadgets for the most part are things that actually exist in real life the muscle car the wing suite all the things in his sutie etc.

Bruce Wayne is a depressed isolated mess who doesn't have a play boy persona who has no interest in being Bruce Wayne and is sudical.

His parents are not one demionsal perfect human beings with no flaw's. There not "saviors" who's wealth doesn't change how they empathize or view the rest of the world.

 

[BMW 224]

Based on what?

Based on how Matt Reeves has approached the world and Batman.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

His mental state is more realistic because he's mentally ill and nihilistic consumed with rage and anger that he actually thinks dressing up like a bat and beating people up is gonna solve Gotham's problem.

His fighting style isn't swooping in taking on entire army's of ninjas or thugs so fast that he's blur or able to doge gun fire pick grown men and disappear into the sky He's simply a brawler.

His gadgets for the most part are things that actually exist in real life the muscle car the wing suite all the things in his sutie etc.

Bruce Wayne is a depressed isolated mess who doesn't have a play boy persona who has no interest in being Bruce Wayne and is sudical.

His parents are not one demionsal perfect human beings with no flaw's. There not "saviors" who's wealth doesn't change how they empathize or view the rest of the world.

One, how is nihilism more realistic? More over, if he's trying to fix Gotham's problems, how is he nihilist? The rest of what you described applies to Nolan's and Burton's take.

So 95% of the combat in the Nolan films. I mean, I agree it's shot better here, but his Brucy brawls a lot. And brawling, as we established, not realistic.

"For the most part". That applies to Nolan's as well. EMP exist, bridging vehicles exist, memory cloth exist, body armor exist, ninja stars exist.

So being "suicidal" and not having a "playboy persona" makes him more realistic. How?

I never got the sense they were "perfect human beings" in TDKT. Mainly as his dad was a doctor who got him and his wife shot and his mother was just the classic sentient pearls.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Based on how Matt Reeves has approached the world and Batman.

Then why are you having so much trouble actually distinguishing what makes it more "realistic". Because pretty much all your argument has been parsing things, while ignoring others that don't fit the argument. Like the muscle car example. It's like saying Fast and Furious is such a realistic franchise, because they have muscle cars.

 

[BMW 224]

One, how is nihilism more realistic? More over, if he's trying to fix Gotham's problems, how is he nihilist? The rest of what you described applies to Nolan's and Burton's take.

So 95% of the combat in the Nolan films. I mean, I agree it's shot better here, but his Brucy brawls a lot. And brawling, as we established, not realistic.

"For the most part". That applies to Nolan's as well. EMP exist, bridging vehicles exist, memory cloth exist, body armor exist, ninja stars exist.

So being "suicidal" and not having a "playboy persona" makes him more realistic. How?

I never got the sense they were "perfect human beings" in TDKT. Mainly as his dad was a doctor who got him and his wife shot and his mother was just the classic sentient pearls.

Nihilism is more realistic because it explains why he's starts out as Batman at the beginning of his journey. It's a flaw brought on by mental state and his parents death. Using his philanthropist to help people as Bruce Wayne is what a more healthy person would do to save his city.

Nolan's Bruce Wayne was pretty stable after his training and compassionate smart man in general so him saying things like "people need to dramatic examples to shake them out if apathy and can't do that as Bruce Wayne" is unrealistic based on what was set up previously.

Fair enough on the combat and gadgets I can see your point there.


Putting on mask acting like a play boy would not realistically hide the fact that Bruce Wayne is Batman.

Not hiding your true depressed isolated self after seeing you parents get shot as a little kid would make people less suspicious in the real world.

Thomas Wayne and Martha Wayne did everything right in there situation it wasn't there fault they were shot. And there shown to have zero flaw's whatsoever.

Matt Reeves Thomas Wayne and Martha Wayne are much more like real people.

 

[BMW 224]

Then why are you having so much trouble actually distinguishing what makes it more "realistic". Because pretty much all your argument has been parsing things, while ignoring others that don't fit the argument. Like the muscle car example. It's like saying Fast and Furious is such a realistic franchise, because they have muscle cars.

A muscle car is more realistic than the Tumbler.

Compared to the real world the things the Muscle Car pulls off is not reastilc.

But it's still just a car with zero gizmos or gadgets.

Which makes more realastic than the Tumbler.

 

[Rick190293]

I'm minority, but I never felt Nolanverse was that realistic, to not allow maybe Mr. Freeze, Ivy, even Clayface. Of course Nolan's approach was to ground it in our reality in a way to conceive verisimilitude, but there's still a gas that makes you see monsters, a microwave emitter that evaporates water, a guy with half of his face literally burned and roaming around, a flying impractical vehicle, and many other things... in a saga about a guy dressed up as a bat. My point is, if Nolan used some of those more fantastical villains, pretty sure he'd find a way.
Same with Reeves, althrough I honestly can't decide if this universe is more or less "grounded."

 

[shauner111]

What about it is more realistic exactly than Nolan’s?

I have explained the differences over and over.

 

[shauner111]

Last time I checked shauner111, you are not a mod. So don't try and tell me what to do.

But yes, I'm invested. I'm invested in the need to bring one thing down to build another up, as it kind of makes it hard to go to forums and discuss movies. In this game of false equivalence, please explain to me what is "MORE REAL" about The Batman trailers and Batman. Because nothing about either lives in the realm of realism. What you are discussing is stylistic choice, based around the idea that "gritty" = more realistic. It doesn't. Both films fail the physics test. Both films have people running around in outlandish costumes. Both involve the impossibly bulletproof crime fighting vigilante.

I like the new style mostly. I think it's neat. But it's a veer of grit and grime. Like Star Wars. Which in no universe, is real. All of this, is fantasy sci-fi. So what about it makes it more "realistic"?

What exactly are you adding to this discussion other than pointing out the obvious aka treating us like idiots as if we don't know that Batman isn't realistic? You're asking what makes this more realistic and I explained all of that. We all have many times. I'll say it again , we knowwww. But we're still debating on what makes this more realistic than other Batman movies. I'm not a mod and I never told you what to do. But I am suggesting that MAYBE just ignore us if you're not super interested in the "what's more real" debate. Because all you're doing is wagging your finger at us like "none of it is realistic you dopes! What a dumb conversation!". Well it's a conversation that many ppl have on here, twitter, reddit, Instagram and Facebook. If you're just gonna slam it and ignore posts that we've written where we highlight the differences...well, I don't see the point.

For instance his gadgets are all hand made by Bruce himself, not some billion dollar military reject equipment handed over to him. There are no big sci-fi maguffins. I can get into more spoilery territory but I won't.

 

[flygerr5]

Anybody who is expecting fantastical and supernatural villains or elements in this universe will be disappointed. It's so obvious Matt is creating a universe based on the concept of "What if this Batman universe was in the real world?"

What Matt did with the Riddler character, completely redesigning and reinventing him based on a real life serial killer shows how focused he is on making these characters feel real. He wants to make the viewer believe that all of these things are possible. And so far, there's not one "impossible" or "unbelievable" thing we've seen in any material from this film. People will say that Batman itself is an unbelievable concept, and I agree with that notion if we were speaking about Batman in all other iterations except this one. This Batman is extremely believable, a recluse billionaire who builds all of his tech and material on his own with no external help or assistance. He's not perfect, and he's no expert in combat. Self taught, MMA student. He will get hit and hurt in this film as any normal human would. He suffers from mental problems and is broken. That's what Matt is trying to show. Nolan trilogy was somewhat grounded and realistic but a lot of things weren't. And that's clear. But I think this universe will be 100% based on realism.

IF characters like Poison Ivy or Scarecrow are introduced (which I think is highly unlikely), their fantastical and supernatural abilities/elements will be stripped away and they will be reinvented to feel more grounded and realistic. Besides, it's obvious Matt is avoiding those characters. The character's he is adapting are all the most realistic, believable ones. Riddler (redesigned to be more based on realism), Penguin (redesigned to be more based on realism, is not some 4'10 dwarf, but a believable mobster), Catwoman and Joker. Joker will be more realistic, won't have a full clown suit and completely dyed hair and bleached skin. And ALL of these villains will appear in every movie. They will develop as villains with each film, as Batman develops more as a hero with each film. I'm a firm believer in the fact that Catwoman, Riddler, Penguin and Joker will be the main villains in this universe. People think Catwoman is some saint based on the material we've seen, but there is plenty of room to have her character play between the lines of evil and good throughout this trilogy. The most likely other villains to be introduced will be Harvey (political aspect), Mad Hatter (street level villain, could be a lieutenant of Joker or working with him) and Black Mask (mobster villain, Penguin rival). These are all villains that can be adapted in a REALISTIC manner.

This is going to be the most grounded, gritty, dark, street-level and realistic Batman universe.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Anybody who is expecting fantastical and supernatural villains or elements in this universe will be disappointed. It's so obvious Matt is creating a universe based on the concept of "What if this Batman universe was in the real world?"

We've been there with 3 films. Riddlers design isnt some "real world" design, it's still over the top grunge in its own way as opposed to a guy who wants to have fun. Penguin being a short rich man isnt any less realistic than this version. Joker not dying his hair doesnt make him anymore realisitc than Heathes Joker. If no one in this universe knows how to dye their hair and be extreme just like a man dressing up like a Bat then...idk what to tell em.

 

[AndyTrevino]

Joker will be more realistic, won't have a full clown suit and completely dyed hair and bleached skin. villains in this universe.

I don't think dyed hair and chemical damage is THAT unbelievable. The green hair could just be a fashion choice here for all we know.

 

[boba loba]

And so far, there's not one "impossible" or "unbelievable" thing we've seen in any material from this film.

Agree with everything else but this. Sure, Matt's going the realistic route but at the end of the day, it's still a Batman story and a comic book movie. When batman falls through the explosion and does a "superman landing" both of his legs should've snapped. That is one of the worst possible things you can do when landing from a steep height. Also, Batman has a grapple gun in this movie, and there's just no such thing. It's still a batman movie and they need to make it entertaining in some way so there is some suspension of disbelief. I think this is the furthest they can go attempting to ground it in the real world without it losing its indentity.

 

[flygerr5]

I don't think dyed hair and chemical damage is THAT unbelievable. The green hair could just be a fashion choice here for all we know.

Yeah I mean Barry's Joker was reported to have slightly greenish looking hair and heavily scarred. I just meant that the classic Joker look with a full vibrant, bright green dyed head of hair and completely pale bleached skin in a full clown get up is unrealistic and would look out of place in this universe. Barry's Joker will have like very dark green, heavily scarred face and maybe a bit of white makeup on his face. That's the furthest I can see them going. I think the scarring around the face is what they are focusing on the most and will be the most emphasized. His face will be very very scarred

 

[flygerr5]

Agree with everything else but this. Sure, Matt's going the realistic route but at the end of the day, it's still a Batman story and a comic book movie. When batman falls through the explosion and does a "superman landing" both of his legs should've snapped. That is one of the worst possible things you can do when landing from a steep height. Also, Batman has a grapple gun in this movie, and there's just no such thing. It's still a batman movie and they need to make it entertaining in some way so there is some suspension of disbelief. I think this is the furthest they can go attempting to ground it in the real world without it losing its indentity.

You have a point, that fall damage part was unrealistic. There is definitely always some suspension of disbelief with comic book movies, but this adaption and universe is about as real as it gets for a Batman story.

 

[cryptic name]

A muscle car is more realistic than the Tumbler.

Compared to the real world the things the Muscle Car pulls off is not reastilc.

But it's still just a car with zero gizmos or gadgets.

Which makes more realastic than the Tumbler.

Why do you think this Batmobile doesn’t have any gadgets. We know this is a Batman that designs and builds lots of crazy tools and tricks into his suit. It seems like it stands to reason his car would have some.

 

[TheSmoothKnight]

 

[AndyTrevino]

Yeah I mean Barry's Joker was reported to have slightly greenish looking hair and heavily scarred. I just meant that the classic Joker look with a full vibrant, bright green dyed head of hair and completely pale bleached skin in a full clown get up is unrealistic and would look out of place in this universe. Barry's Joker will have like very dark green, heavily scarred face and maybe a bit of white makeup on his face. That's the furthest I can see them going. I think the scarring around the face is what they are focusing on the most and will be the most emphasized. His face will be very very scarred

Oh you just meant when he's locked up? THAT I can definitely see.

But I feel like when he escapes he'd put on lipstick or something to that effect for presentation purposes

 

[PurpleStar]

I don't think dyed hair and chemical damage is THAT unbelievable. The green hair could just be a fashion choice here for all we know.

I agree. Tbh the thought of another make up Joker kind of disinterests me as it's like oh that "realistic" approach meaning make up again... but I've seen that before so why retread. It's not necessarily unrealistic for someone to have skin discolouration from chemical damage, or even a severe case of vitiligo.

 

[darkdefective]

Then why are you having so much trouble actually distinguishing what makes it more "realistic". Because pretty much all your argument has been parsing things, while ignoring others that don't fit the argument. Like the muscle car example. It's like saying Fast and Furious is such a realistic franchise, because they have muscle cars.

Wow you come off as very confrontational , lol I don’t get it. Nobody thinks Batman is a concept is super realistic. This discourse pertains to how realistic each interpretation is relative to each other
Your muscle car comparison is pretty disingenuous, it’s obviously more plausible for someone to modify a muscle car than for a tricked out military pseudo tank to fall in their lap

 

[darkdefective]

Why do you think this Batmobile doesn’t have any gadgets. We know this is a Batman that designs and builds lots of crazy tools and tricks into his suit. It seems like it stands to reason his car would have some.

someone has already stated on this thread that the batmobile is very “meat and potatoes” so to speak

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Jesus, touch some grass.

Is this your way of telling me my arguments are good? Thank you.

Nihilism is more realistic because it explains why he's starts out as Batman at the beginning of his journey. It's a flaw brought on by mental state and his parents death. Using his philanthropist to help people as Bruce Wayne is what a more healthy person would do to save his city.

Nolan's Bruce Wayne was pretty stable after his training and compassionate smart man in general so him saying things like "people need to dramatic examples to shake them out if apathy and can't do that as Bruce Wayne" is unrealistic based on what was set up previously.

Fair enough on the combat and gadgets I can see your point there.


Putting on mask acting like a play boy would not realistically hide the fact that Bruce Wayne is Batman.

Not hiding your true depressed isolated self after seeing you parents get shot as a little kid would make people less suspicious in the real world.

Thomas Wayne and Martha Wayne did everything right in there situation it wasn't there fault they were shot. And there shown to have zero flaw's whatsoever.

Matt Reeves Thomas Wayne and Martha Wayne are much more like real people.

You don't know what nihilism is, do you?

But running around being moody would hide Batman better? How? The whole point of the playboy persona (which is just a persona), is the last person in the world you'd expect to be Batman, is the guy who is too busy being a rich boy. So in the realm of realism, I don't expect much from Logan Paul and in the universe of Batman, he'd be my last selection for the Dark Knight.

You made grandiose statements, and just state them as fact. And then say, "see more realistic". That's not how it works.

What exactly are you adding to this discussion other than pointing out the obvious aka treating us like idiots as if we don't know that Batman isn't realistic? You're asking what makes this more realistic and I explained all of that. We all have many times. I'll say it again , we knowwww. But we're still debating on what makes this more realistic than other Batman movies. I'm not a mod and I never told you what to do. But I am suggesting that MAYBE just ignore us if you're not super interested in the "what's more real" debate. Because all you're doing is wagging your finger at us like "none of it is realistic you dopes! What a dumb conversation!". Well it's a conversation that many ppl have on here, twitter, reddit, Instagram and Facebook. If you're just gonna slam it and ignore posts that we've written where we highlight the differences...well, I don't see the point.

For instance his gadgets are all hand made by Bruce himself, not some billion dollar military reject equipment handed over to him. There are no big sci-fi maguffins. I can get into more spoilery territory but I won't.

You explained nothing to me at all to me. You threw a little fit.

This isn't a separate thread by the way. This is the leaks and spoilers discussion. Maybe have the conversation somewhere else.

But back to your bad point on realism. Hand made equipment is not more realistic. It means it probably shouldn't work. Have military grade equipment that works, makes more sense then young man crafts things in basement, no matter how rich they are. It's why Elon Musk has stolen all his inventions. I mean, that feels pretty obvious.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Anybody who is expecting fantastical and supernatural villains or elements in this universe will be disappointed. It's so obvious Matt is creating a universe based on the concept of "What if this Batman universe was in the real world?"

What Matt did with the Riddler character, completely redesigning and reinventing him based on a real life serial killer shows how focused he is on making these characters feel real. He wants to make the viewer believe that all of these things are possible. And so far, there's not one "impossible" or "unbelievable" thing we've seen in any material from this film. People will say that Batman itself is an unbelievable concept, and I agree with that notion if we were speaking about Batman in all other iterations except this one. This Batman is extremely believable, a recluse billionaire who builds all of his tech and material on his own with no external help or assistance. He's not perfect, and he's no expert in combat. Self taught, MMA student. He will get hit and hurt in this film as any normal human would. He suffers from mental problems and is broken. That's what Matt is trying to show. Nolan trilogy was somewhat grounded and realistic but a lot of things weren't. And that's clear. But I think this universe will be 100% based on realism.

IF characters like Poison Ivy or Scarecrow are introduced (which I think is highly unlikely), their fantastical and supernatural abilities/elements will be stripped away and they will be reinvented to feel more grounded and realistic. Besides, it's obvious Matt is avoiding those characters. The character's he is adapting are all the most realistic, believable ones. Riddler (redesigned to be more based on realism), Penguin (redesigned to be more based on realism, is not some 4'10 dwarf, but a believable mobster), Catwoman and Joker. Joker will be more realistic, won't have a full clown suit and completely dyed hair and bleached skin. And ALL of these villains will appear in every movie. They will develop as villains with each film, as Batman develops more as a hero with each film. I'm a firm believer in the fact that Catwoman, Riddler, Penguin and Joker will be the main villains in this universe. People think Catwoman is some saint based on the material we've seen, but there is plenty of room to have her character play between the lines of evil and good throughout this trilogy. The most likely other villains to be introduced will be Harvey (political aspect), Mad Hatter (street level villain, could be a lieutenant of Joker or working with him) and Black Mask (mobster villain, Penguin rival). These are all villains that can be adapted in a REALISTIC manner.

This is going to be the most grounded, gritty, dark, street-level and realistic Batman universe.

There is nothing realistic about this Riddler. Nothing more so then the guy who leaves riddles in a suit. He wears a trash bag for Godsake. If he wore a green suit, it would be less realistic? How?

What about crafting your own equipment that is going to save you from bullets, grapple and do other such things "more realistic" then getting military grade stuff? More over, Bruce crafted plenty of his stuff in Begins. He also got hurt and wounded throught TDKT. So much so, he was physically broken 18 months into it. Seems fairly realistic in comparison.

You believe it will be based 100% on realism, say there isn't anything unrealistic in the trailers, and it's just not true. It's an attempt to confirm something through saying it's that way. That's why to try and build up to the word REALISTIC you use buzz words like grounded, gritty, dark, street-level. Which beyond most of those applying to not only Nolan but Burton's take, it still doesn't make it "more realistic".

 

[DarthSkywalker]

A very mature argument. Now what's nihilism?

 

[BMW 224]

A very mature argument. Now what's nihilism?

A very mature debuttal.

Now what's realistic about Play Boy Bruce Wayne working in the real world to disguise his identity ?

How does being fantasticil or realistic affect a quality of a adaption of Batman ?

Why do you get angry when people are observing differences between different takes on Batman ?

Why are you trying to turn this into a war when most people here love both Nolan and Reeves different takes ?