The Batman Spoiler Discussion Thread

[BatsAndNights]

As someone who didn’t watch the final trailers/clips/TV spots, I just watched them now to see how much they have away. Jeeeeez. Glad I didn’t. 95% of the best scenes were in the trailers. WB didn’t save much for the movie

Yeah same, thank God I went dark when I did. I was still kinda around here and there but then I saw that one image of Batman carrying the girl amongst the crowd and I went full recluse lmao

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I saw that one image of Batman carrying the girl amongst the crowd and I went full recluse lmao

We all knew you were holed up with 8 inch nails...peeing into Mason jars...

 

[BatsAndNights]

Part of me kind of wishes DC/WB had the foresight/ability to connect this movie and Joker with Joaquin Phoenix, with a few tweaks here and there to make it fit together. So many similarities.

The tone and vibe of Gotham in both movies is SO similar.
Joker having a condition that predisposes him to his eventual supervillain alterego
Thomas Wayne running for/being Mayor, having corrupt ties.
"Joker" in Arkham State Hospital already.

Imagine how insane it would have been if Joaquin Phoenix was in that cell, the internet/theaters would have exploded.

Interested to see what Matt Reeves does with the character though.

Eh, honestly I'd rather they save the universe baiting type stuff (not to say I don't like it, I just think there's a time and a place) for the sequels. Expand on the universe and start connecting it to stuff later on, for now, focus on the current stuff. I think them not bringing Joaquin back or trying to connect it to anything else is fine if not preferable for the first movie. Lemme see what Matt brings to the table before we start trying to do crossovers.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I also feel like Riddler and his Q-Anon fanboys feel like a much more mature and interesting exploration of Joker’s themes, especially because it’s stripped of the folk hero bull**** Phillips waters his movie down with.

I think Fleck is a far more monstrous character than people give the movie credit for and it is ultimately the story of a fairly vile attention ****, to be totally fair, but there’s an obvious level of authorial admiration going on. Especially listening to some of Todd’s incredibly dumb comments.

 

[BMW 224]

Joaquin Phoenix wasn't even Joker until his last scene.

Don't think it's fair to judge his version yet.

 

[Brotherhood]

Yeah, we can't compare a Joker we haven't even really seen to one that got his own solo film.

 

[BMW 224]

I also feel like Riddler and his Q-Anon fanboys feel like a much more mature and interesting exploration of Joker’s themes, especially because it’s stripped of the folk hero bull**** Phillips waters his movie down with.

I think Fleck is a far more monstrous character than people give the movie credit for and it is ultimately the story of a fairly vile attention ****, to be totally fair, but there’s an obvious level of authorial admiration going on. Especially listening to some of Todd’s incredibly dumb comments.

I haven't even seen the film yet but just from the interviews and trailers I agree.

Riddler and his cult are better execution of that whole idea.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

That being said, not to drift into Joker discourse, I do like Fleck’s total disinterest in the political element of the movement he starts because ultimately he just likes the attention. They kinda kill this with Joaquin’s big silly Oscar Speech with Murray, but it’s good!

 

[Daywalker89]

I gather these scenes were deleted because they weren't in the film ......

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I gather these scenes were deleted because they weren't in the film ......

The first and last are, I’m guessing, alternate takes.

 

[fake]

I gather these scenes were deleted because they weren't in the film ......

All of these shots are from the pre-Covid days. There's a chance Reeves looked at those scenes during the filming break and thought different takes could work better, or just a reshot version of the scene could work better.

Covid delays gave them a chance to streamline stuff as well as need be, and we have to remember that the first teaser was put together with less than a quarter of the movie filmed, so basically adding in any footage they could do with.

 

[CondimentKing]

It's a shame because that first one is an iconic shot and I wanted to see more close up angles as a big acting moment there. Dunno why he'd cut that one shot.

 

[Daywalker89]

All of these shots are from the pre-Covid days. There's a chance Reeves looked at those scenes during the filming break and thought different takes could work better, or just a reshot version of the scene could work better.

Covid delays gave them a chance to streamline stuff as well as need be, and we have to remember that the first teaser was put together with less than a quarter of the movie filmed, so basically adding in any footage they could do with.

Ahh okay that would make sense. Just like Sword said there was alternative takes aswell. I loved Bruce with just his eye makeup on it was some of the best imagery for me.

 

[Daywalker89]

Just a analysis from my review i had from the film that was underrated imo:

What i think is understated was the connection to the Mayors son. When Batman saw that small foot print at the crime scene and Gordan told him he'd found him. Can you imagine how much Trauma that brought in that moment. He fixated on that kid like it was him in the alleyway on that faithful night. When that boy looked at him ,he saw the same face he must of displayed when a cop tried to comfort him.

At the funeral it was even worse. Soon as he saw him again. He stayed frozen in time potentially reliving his parents funeral. When the Mayors son turned around Bruce was still fixated on him. Then when all the commotion outside was happening he turned around again because he was his priority in that moment he wanted to make sure there was NO THREAT whatsoever or harm to come to that boy, He absolutely saw himself within the Mayor's son. Pattinson absolutely killed it in the funeral scene. The young actor gave off a innocence i haven't seen in a longtime. Im so glad he was the one to reach out at the end when Batman wanted to help. Why.....because that moment could be whether the kid finds the light instead of the darkness that consumed Bruce.

 

[BatsAndNights]

All of these shots are from the pre-Covid days. There's a chance Reeves looked at those scenes during the filming break and thought different takes could work better, or just a reshot version of the scene could work better.

Covid delays gave them a chance to streamline stuff as well as need be, and we have to remember that the first teaser was put together with less than a quarter of the movie filmed, so basically adding in any footage they could do with.

The middle one isn't pre COVID (as far as I'm aware), that's from the main trailer. I think Matt just ultimately decided on different takes. Another example is this shot

vs this shot



Which literally changed between trailers.

 

[antsman41]

The first and last are, I’m guessing, alternate takes.

And the second is pre or post the Alfred scene. You can see the glasses on the table... when they're talking. And, Pattinson squints concerning the sunlight.

 

[BatsAndNights]

I also feel like Riddler and his Q-Anon fanboys feel like a much more mature and interesting exploration of Joker’s themes, especially because it’s stripped of the folk hero bull**** Phillips waters his movie down with.

I think Fleck is a far more monstrous character than people give the movie credit for and it is ultimately the story of a fairly vile attention ****, to be totally fair, but there’s an obvious level of authorial admiration going on. Especially listening to some of Todd’s incredibly dumb comments.

What I really liked as well was actually how small Riddler's "community" was.

I always found it mildly silly when movies try to play off cult-type leaders as basically having the entire world as their followers when they usually only get a few thousand people at the absolute most.

Instead, here? Riddler's only got like 500 followers. It's a neat little detail and actually adds to the character a lot more due to how big of a deal he sees that and how he takes that as him becoming this grand New Symbol. When really, it's...500 followers, which is nothing.

 

[BatsAndNights]

God...this ****ing movie, man.

 

[codesveburn]

Reeves about Joker scene

 

[BatsAndNights]

Reeves about Joker scene

That is a great shout with the last Selina scene, I didn't even think of that

I was fine with Joker just being a bit of fan service and a touch of sequel baiting. It was barely anything more than what we got in Batman Begins at the end. But the fact that he kept it because it served the current story...God, how tf did we win this hard

 

[Gothamsknight]

I honestly think the joker scene worked better the 2nd time around. It was meant to serve as a way to let us know he's there and not necessarily mean he's next. I keep wanting to freeze frame the movie to see his face haha

 

[Boom]

The Riddler wanted a friend. He thought Batman would be that friend, but was ultimately rejected and "betrayed." In a moment of vulnerability and defeat, here come the sweet whisperings of a stranger offering his hand in friendship. So I do see what Reeves meant as far as giving Nashton's arc some closure there. Nashton got his friend. The context justifies the scene's inclusion. I just think people's mileage may vary on the overall worth of that context, or the execution of it.

 

[Brotherhood]

Reeves exactly pinpoints what I took from that scene. I feel if you take that scene out, despite the hint at the power vaccum and Penguin, it would make the end of the film almost too hopeful in the sense that Gotham will seemingly grow from the events "for the better" to some extent, but the Joker/Riddler scene shows you that you can't really change Gotham. These villains and criminals will still be lurking beneath the surface waiting for their time.

And as @Boom mentions, I also love the concept of friendship thats touched upon because it keeps with the version of Riddler we got and his story. He thought he had a friend in Batman, and he was wrong. Now, here's Joker to say I'll be your friend and as an audience we know thats a baaadddd idea.

And just to add, if we get Joker in a future movie (personally would prefer him in a third movie) I'd love to see Reeves adapt the opera sequence from Hush, and fans of that comic will know exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[BatLobster]

I honestly don't think it would've been too hopeful of an ending without it. You know there's a power vacuum/Penguin. And honestly, this film trusts us to just know about the Waynes' murders via cultural osmosis. I think it could have equally trusted us to understand that The Joker and other villains exist here. They spent 3 hours showing us how much of a sh**hole Gotham is, and then left it in a state of disaster with the national guard entering the picture. We know things are bad and will get worse. The ending was already a touch of hope in a very bleak situation IMO. So I disagree with Reeves' reasoning there. I think leaving a little to the imagination there could've worked.

On the other hand-- seeing the villain locked up in Arkham after their defeat is a classic Batman trope after all. So I don't think it's a terrible thing or w/e. I'm still kind of torn on it I guess tbh. I think it mostly comes from a place of being jaded about how every single piece of content is sequel bait and spinoff-bait at this point, and wishing this film could've shucked that small bit of it there. Not the film's fault, it's just the reality of the current landscape- it is what it is.

Looking forward to paying more attention to Barry's performance on my second watch though.

 

[antsman41]

I know we've slightly discussed his Bat-weapons, but his personal small Bat-laptop and his dope ass (on the go) Batcomputer he setup for the stake scene with Selina infiltrating 44(?) Below... was so neat. The way it felt so analog, yet super techy.

It had that BTAS feel. Same with the screens/tech within the Batmobile cockpit.