The Batman Spoiler Discussion Thread

[WayneMB]

So throwing away Jokers entire theme and look and making him Green Goblin zombie rip off is the way to do that ?

hold on a minute.... green hair? check. smile? check. pale skin? check. laugh? check. what theme has been thrown away here...

 

[BMW 224]

I really don’t think that’s what they’ve done.

I can't see how personally.

This makes Jared Leto awful Joker look a masterpiece.

 

[Doctor Jones]

If he's not "The Joker" yet, I wonder what he's known as? Who does Batman ask to see when he goes to Arkham? Also, tbh I don't quite get the whole aspect of how he's able to just walk into Arkham and get access to inmates either, haha. Gordon put in the good word with him with security over there? Not hugely important, but considering how much attention they draw to stuff like Batman being let on crime scenes and not being welcomed there by anyone but Gordon, I wouldn't have minded an explanation there.

I thought this too, but I guess if they have a relationship, the implication is that Batman was the one who put him in Arkham so he's allowed to visit.

 

[Jekecy]

Uhh what ?

He already has his realtionship with Batman.

His personality is spot on.

He already is the Joker.

Under no circumstances should Joker ever not look like a clown with all these elements in place.

The Joker persona is as much of a put-on outfit as Batman is to Bruce.

There's a reason neither the clip nor Reeves ever refers to Joker. This is clearly his pre-Joker days.

 

[VonRomberg]

I can't see how personally.

This makes Jared Leto awful Joker look a masterpiece.

To each their own, but this makes sense to me.

BTAS is my favorite iteration of the character, but I’m open to different takes and this works with what we know of Reeves’ universe.

I’m kind of tired of pop culture icon Joker to be honest, I think this version is going to be very interesting.

 

[BMW 224]

hold on a minute.... green hair? check. smile? check. white face? check. laugh? check. what theme has been thrown away here...

Cheap green patches of hair that don't look real or Joker like check.

Zombies smile that looks so over the top and not creepy or joker like in the slightest check.

Grey disfigured wrinkled skin that looks straight from The Amazing Spiderman Green Goblin check.

Laugh is phenomenal and definitely joker like so check.

The theme is no longer the theme of a Clown which is the entire point of the name Joker instead it looks it would fit Two Face more.

 

[BMW 224]

The Joker persona is as much of a put-on outfit as Batman is to Bruce.

There's a reason neither the clip nor Reeves ever refers to Joker. This is clearly his pre-Joker days.

The Joker persona is a put on outfit like Batman is to Bruce ?

Uhhh maybe if this was makeup but since there not going that route I disagree.


His face hair etc should already have the clown like joker look why wouldn't it ?

 

[BMW 224]

To each their own, but this makes sense to me.

BTAS is my favorite iteration of the character, but I’m open to different tales and this works with what we know of Reeves’ universe.

I’m kind of tired of pop culture icon Joker to be honest, I think this version is going to be very interesting.

I agree with you but I think the execution of these ideas just isn't there for me.

Heath Ledger Joker essentially went for the same thing but I think it's much better than this zombie look.

 

[Luke995]

Okay... I'M SOLD.
Make up, voice, laugh, acting. Reeves did it again!

Some considerations:

1. From a narrative pov, it was good they removed the scene. The realization in the third act with Riddler who says he is a Bat-fan and the "Vengeance" quote from Riddler's goon are much more powerful in the theatrical cut without this scene.
Plus, releasing it after the movie is a quite smart move, because it's a sort of an hint to the sequel, to me.
On the other hand, the last Riddler/Joker scene, alone, seems a silly easter egg with a Joker who speaks like a cartoon. This scene changes everything. So it was too a bad move, in a way.
But... Whatever.

2. Regarding this, is absolutely clear the Lecter-Starling dynamic. Even too much.
I think that the real reason they cut it is that they want to make an entire movie like this (The Batman 2) and, with this clip, if that's true, the hype is rising!

3. I like very much the make up work, but I have some questions.

How can't he be "The Joker" yet if his hair are green? They are naturally green? He is in Arkham from one year and I don't think the inmates are allowed to color their hair! Hahah
Anyway the hair too are quite messed up (I love the fact that they go on a sort of a realistic Leto version with the hair), so... What's his history?

Reeves talked about "Elephant man" reference, and it's VERY clear. But at the same time, yes, he is a freak from the birth, but it's pretty cleare that something happened to him.

His body is wounded. So... Acid burning or not? Or something else?

 

[kolyid]

I can't see how personally.

This makes Jared Leto awful Joker look a masterpiece.

You’re being too much of a traditionalist. This is a very realistic portrayal of someone who fell inside some kind of acid

 

[Jekecy]

The Joker persona is a put on outfit like Batman is to Bruce ?

Uhhh maybe if this was makeup but since there not going that route I disagree.

Do you think a purple suit is standard men's clothing and easily attainable?

His entire persona is absolutely put-on. There's effort in creating that whole look. It's not just something you pull out of a closet.

 

[TheGDBatman]

Not sure if this was posted already, but here’s a dialogue transcript:

Joker: Mmm. A present. Almost our anniversary, isn't it?

Batman: There's a serial killer. I want your perspective.

Joker: First anniversary is... paper. What makes you think I come so cheap?

Batman: I thought you'd be curious.

Joker: You think I get off on this stuff?

Batman: Don't you?

Joker: You have pictures. This violence. It's so baroque. He likes little puzzles, doesn't he? So meticulous... like he's been planning this his whole life. I know who he is.

Batman: Who? Who is he?

Joker: He's a nobody who wants to be somebody. The mayor. The commissioner. He's got ambition.

Batman: You think his motive is political?

Joker: Oh, no, no, this is very personal. He feels these people have all wronged him. Probably goes way back. Unhealed wounds, stolen lunch money.

Batman: Why is he writing to me?

Joker: Maybe he's a fan of yours? Or maybe he's got a grudge against you, too. Maybe you're the main course. Any theories?

Batman: Not yet.

Joker: Really? You're normally so ahead of the curve... But something is different this time. This is very upsetting to you.

Batman: Let's get back to him.

Joker: Why? You're so much more fun.

Batman: We're not here to talk about me.

Joker: What are you here to talk about?

Batman: I wanna know how he thinks.

Joker: You know exactly how he thinks. Have you read this file? You two have so much in common. "Masked avengers". So he's even more righteous... Aww. Are you afraid he makes you look soft?

Batman: I'm wasting my time.

Joker: Okay. Let me tell you what I really think. I think... you don't really care about his motives, whether he loves or hates you. I think somewhere, deep down, you're just terrified, cause you're not sure he's wrong, huh? You think they deserve it, huh? You think they deserved it!

 

[BMW 224]

You’re being too much of a traditionalist. This is a very realistic portrayal of someone who fell inside some kind of acid

I'm definitely not a traditionalist.

I love Paul Dano Riddler look more than the comic's.

Matt Reeves said he was born like this not dropped in acid didn't he ?


Please explain how this look is in any way shape or form "realistic".


Man looks he stepped out of a Tim Burton movie.

 

[BatLobster]

Reeves did seem to say it's not the acid bath and it's not the cut smile in that interview.

I'm assuming his skin is also the result of whatever disease he has.

 

[BMW 224]

Do you think a purple suit is standard men's clothing and easily attainable?

His entire persona is absolutely put-on. There's effort in creating that whole look. It's not just something you pull out of a closet.

I have zero problem with no purple suit lol he's in Arhkam obviously he's not gonna have that.

I'm not talking about the persona at all I'm talking about his design.

There's no "effort" in looking like what he does in this take or any other.

The bare basics should already be there.

Clothes weapons persona etc that's all fine to have later.

But his face hair ect look nothing like Joker and with how drastic it is I doubt it ever will for me it's permanent disfigurement.

Which would be awesome if that permanent disfigurement looked anything like Joker.

 

[kolyid]

I'm definitely not a traditionalist.

I love Paul Dano Riddler look more than the comic's.

Matt Reeves said he was born like this not dropped in acid didn't he ?


Please explain how this look is in any way shape or form "realistic".


Man looks he stepped out of a Tim Burton movie.

He said the smile is a genetic defect not the skin. And how isn’t it realistic? There are many portrayal of the Joker in the comics. You saying Letos Joker looks like a masterpiece compared to this is just crazy. Everything about Leto from his look to his performance was a big joke and shouldn’t even be mentioned.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I would say that a giant permanent toothy smile looks pretty Joker.

 

[Lando81]

So throwing away Jokers entire theme and look and making him Green Goblin zombie rip off is the way to do that ?

It's like you're intentionally misreading it to have an edgy hot take, but in reality it just makes you look dense.

 

[BMW 224]

He said the smile is a genetic defect not the skin. And how isn’t it realistic? There are many portrayal of the Joker in the comics. You saying Letos Joker looks like a masterpiece compared to this is just crazy. Everything about Leto from his look to his performance was a big joke and shouldn’t even be mentioned.

You still haven't given any reasons why this is realistic.

Leto's Joker performance was awful Barry Keoangh performance is already better.

But Leto look while over the top cringy and just plain still had the clown theme.

It looked like one big joke but at least that feels like joker.

This feels like a in bad Goblin.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

So throwing away Jokers entire theme and look and making him Green Goblin zombie rip off is the way to do that ?

Oh wow, I don't have an issue with this Joker thus far - but you're not lying that he looks a lot like Green Goblin from that film.

 

[BMW 224]

It's like you're intentionally misreading it to have an edgy hot take, but in reality it just makes you look dense.

What is there to misread ?

It isn't a "edgy hot take" to despie a design.

 

[BMW 224]

Oh wow, I don't have an issue with this Joker thus far - but you're not lying that he looks a lot like Green Goblin from that film.

But apparently that's more realistic or looks like Joker and anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand his persona or is trying to have a hot take lol.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

What is there to misread ?

It isn't a "edgy hot take" to despie a design.

For what it's worth, I don't feel like you're trying to have an edgy hot-take.

Your point is hard for me to unsee now.

 

[O.C Cobblebot]

Is the rat website still active after this reveal? Or is this scene reward of current riddles on site?

Love the scene btw. Bring on the sequel asap, but no Joker as a main bad guy. Give me Mr. Freeze, please

 

[OnLeatherWings]

But apparently that's more realistic or looks like Joker and anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand his persona or is trying to have a hot take lol.

Some are very touchy about critiquing this film.