The Batman Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Jekecy]

I have zero problem with no purple suit lol he's in Arhkam obviously he's not gonna have that.

I'm not talking about the persona at all I'm talking about his design.

There's no "effort" in looking like what he does in this take or any other.

The bare basics should already be there.

Clothes weapons persona etc that's all fine to have later.

But his face hair ect look nothing like Joker and with how drastic it is I doubt it ever will for me it's permanent disfigurement.

Which would be awesome if that permanent disfigurement looked anything like Joker.

I’m in agreement the “base” doesn’t look much like Joker.

But we still have to be open to the notion it simply means this particular iteration is going to put in more work to become him.The destination is what matters here.

Again, he’s not referred to as Joker here. Batman doesn’t. The film’s text doesn’t. The official clip title doesn’t. The director himself doesn’t.

That’s all deliberate.

I’m gonna have to get used to what that design will eventually come to be as it’s going to be difficult to look past the (permanent?) scarring all across his face and body. But I’ll still wait to pass judgement.

 

[BMW 224]

I’m in agreement the “base” doesn’t look much like Joker.

But we still have to be open to the notion it simply means this particular iteration is going to put in more work to become him.The destination is what matters here.

Again, he’s not referred to as Joker here. Batman doesn’t. The film’s text doesn’t. The official clip title doesn’t. The director himself doesn’t.

That’s all deliberate.

I’m gonna have to get used to what that design will eventually come to be as it’s going to be difficult to look past the (permanent?) scarring all across his face and body. But I’ll still wait to pass judgement.

I respect your opinion.

And when I say this I'm not attacking you or the crew behind the film.

But what's the point on making him the established character with a relationship with Batman... If you basically giving him an origin story again from the defense I've heard ?

Especially when the only thing missing seems to be the name ?

I feel this is less set in stone and more speculation or a assumption to explain this design choice.


When the explanation is more likely they wanted to make him fit this horror world so they got rid of the color's.

 

[Boom]

Watched the clip in 4K and I'm not sure how people are seeing permawhite. He looks very clearly flesh-toned to me.

Be as it may..

Greenish hair. Clownish, permanent grin accented by blistered lips. Impish laugh. I can see a "Joker" persona being born from this. Doesn't require him to be a literal clown, though I appreciate that this would be a deviation from the source material. Not everyone's gonna love it just for that reason. Comes with the territory when you do something radically different. Same thing happened with Ledger.

We'll see if people come around to it more if/when Keoghan is given more time and material to flesh out this take.

 

[WatchProtect]

Tbh most of Jokers "color" is just added stuff.

I agree that he's basically the Joker already but if you took his exact look in the film and threw him in a purple or blue suit that's as Joker as it gets. You could give him lipstick but I don't think he needs it tbh. Hair grows so next time we see him that won't be an issue.

It's really the perfect Joker look for me the way it is now.

 

[Jekecy]

I respect your opinion.

And when I say this I'm not attacking you or the crew behind the film.

But what's the point on making him the established character with a relationship with Batman... If you basically giving him an origin story again from the defense I've heard ?

Especially when the only thing missing seems to be the name?

I'm only speculating, but I would guess it serves two purposes:

- It makes Gotham more lived-in when characters are already in motion, even if it's still in the early days. The fact all his villains are just existing somewhere in the city and Batman himself is familiar with them makes the story feel less like a villain-of-the-week when they debut in each subsequent film.

- It's a different dynamic when the two are "growing up" together and eventually become their iconic selves. If we're to assume Barry is going to be appearing in every film, I think that's fascinating to see how the two interact with each other over time without necessarily being in a grand face-off.

 

[Boom]

Tbh most of Jokers "color" is just added stuff.

I agree that he's basically the Joker already but if you took his exact look in the film and threw him in a purple or blue suit that's as Joker as it gets. You could give him lipstick but I don't think he needs it tbh. Hair grows so next time we see him that won't be an issue.

It's really the perfect Joker look for me the way it is now.

Yep. Fits this world like a glove. Just like Ledger's fit Nolan's.

 

[Broseph44]

If he's not "The Joker" yet, I wonder what he's known as? Who does Batman ask to see when he goes to Arkham? Also, tbh I don't quite get the whole aspect of how he's able to just walk into Arkham and get access to inmates either, haha. Gordon put in the good word with him with security over there? Not hugely important, but considering how much attention they draw to stuff like Batman being let on crime scenes and not being welcomed there by anyone but Gordon, I wouldn't have minded an explanation there.

It’s pretty simple honestly and doesn’t need to explained. But he’s the one that caught Joker and thus why he’d be permitted to have access to him in Arkham. Same with Riddler he helped catch him, thus he’s allowed access to him.

 

[BMW 224]

Yep. Fits this world like a glove. Just like Ledger's fit Nolan's.

It does fit this world i agree.

But surely that's the opposite of what Joker stands for.

Heath Ledger "fit" by using make-up but he looked unlike any other Nolan character.

Dirty grungy sadistic etc.

Joker can fit this world too by being disfigured and horror like while still looking like a monster "clown".

They successfuly made him look like a monster I guess but basically avoided making him look like a clown as well.

 

[Boom]

It does fit this world i agree.

But surely that's the opposite of what Joker stands for.

Heath Ledger "fit" by using make-up but he looked unlike any other Nolan character.

Dirty grungy sadistic etc.

Joker can fit this world too by being disfigured and horror like while still looking like a monster "clown".

They successfuly made him look like a monster I guess but basically avoided making him look like a clown as well.

... He has a giant permanent smile. What's the first thing that pops to mind what you think "giant permanent smile?" Nevermind the unnaturally colored hair.

The Joker was born from trauma and physical disfigurement. This Joker quite literally has that. In spades.

 

[BMW 224]

... He has a giant permanent smile. What's the first thing that pops to mind what you think "giant permanent smile?" Nevermind the unnaturally colored hair.

The Joker was born from trauma and physical disfigurement. This Joker quite literally has that. In spades.

Yes that's why I like the idea behind this but not the execution.

 

[Boom]

Yes that's why I like the idea behind this but not the execution.

Fair enough. For what it's worth, I hope you come around to it with time. Maybe seeing him in "Joker" attire instead of a prison jump suit will complete that clown look you feel is missing here.

 

[TheGDBatman]

So throwing away Jokers entire theme and look and making him Green Goblin zombie rip off is the way to do that ?

Are you seriously comparing this:



To what we saw in that clip?

Sorry friend, but that's a huge reach imo.

To echo the points of others, he's not going to look at his most "clown-ish" in prison attire. The out of focus shots of him looked very Joker to me (green hair, pale skin, smile, etc).

 

[OnLeatherWings]

Sorry friend, but that's a huge reach imo.

So...why isn't it also a reach to call what Reeves has done 'The Joker'?

I'd say Barry's Joker looks more like Goblin there than he does 99% of comic book Jokers.

I'm personally interested in this version - but I think it's MORE of a stretch to say he looks like 'The Joker' that most know.

 

[TheGDBatman]

So...why isn't it also a reach to call what Reeves has done 'The Joker'?

I'd say Barry's Joker looks more like Goblin there than he does 99% of comic book Jokers.

I'm personally interested in this version - but I think it's MORE of a stretch to say he looks like 'The Joker' that most know.

Reeves Joker: green hair, smile, laugh, pale skin
Green Goblin: dude forgot to brush his teeth, used lots of hair product

Sorry, not even close.

If you don't like it, that's perfectly fine. I just think it's silly to say that this iteration looks more like Green Goblin. Honestly, it's bordering on laughable.

 

[Luke995]

Not sure if this was posted already, but here’s a dialogue transcript:

Joker: Really? You're normally so ahead of the curve... But something is different this time. This is very upsetting to you.

I know what you did here, Matt, I know...

 

[BMW 224]

Reeves Joker: green hair, smile, laugh, pale skin
Green Goblin: dude forgot to brush his teeth, used lots of hair product

Sorry, not even close.

If you don't like it, that's perfectly fine. I just think it's silly to say that this iteration looks more like Green Goblin. Honestly, it's bordering on laughable.

I'll give you the hair I've changed my opinion on that and come around to it mostly because has some basis of a clown.

But everything else yes in my opinion he looks way more like Green Goblin than the Joker.

This Hd Picture has made that even more clear to me.

 

[TheGDBatman]

I'll give you the hair I was I've changed my opinion on that.

But everything else yes in my opinion he looks way more like Green Goblin than the Joker.

Just don't see it.

Lol sorry, I'm just being an a-hole. I think we'll agree to disagree on this one. Hopefully we get to see more in future films to change your mind!

 

[BMW 224]

Just don't see it.

Lol sorry, I'm just being an a-hole. I think we'll agree to disagree on this one. Hopefully we get to see more in future films to change your mind!

Nah your not being an a-hole we just disagree on this aspect lol regardless I think we can agree that his personality and performance are definitely "joker" and not Green Goblin.

 

[Neno_Kos]

I must agree with Grace Randolph why Joker scene is deleted and why it stayed deleted. It truly is taking away from two main characters dynamic.

It also take from Pattinson's Batman as world greatest detective where he is forced to go to someone looking for answers. I watched movie for 2nd time and this movie truly is all about that.

And while scene is great and I like new take on Joker I still prefer scene which was in movie as first sneak peak on him. I also think this scene would have overshadowed Riddler and that's a bad bad thing if your movie is 3h long. That would mean you have done poor job with Riddler if one 5 minute scene overshadows 3h villain.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

I'm not saying this new Joker look is bad. I think it's got good potential and I'm for it, 100%.

But as for BMW's point - if you showed Joe Public a photo of this =
https://******************.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/2021.02.14-05.07-******************-6028b01091634.png

And this =

And asked him who Barry's character looked like, he wouldn't say the guy in the top photo.

 

[chintai80]

its a great scene imo, but yea it works as a deleted extra scene.

but if they included it in the film, it would've took away the momentum and distracted from the batman vs riddler story.

 

[OnLeatherWings]

Anyone else really shocked they released this?

I'm surprised, big time.
I'd have thought they'd wait to release it to hype up the HBO Max date or to promote something.

Usually this type of thing isn't just put out there willy nilly.

 

[BMW 224]

Anyone else really shocked they released this?

I'm surprised, big time.
I'd have thought they'd wait to release it to hype up the HBO Max date or to promote something.

Usually this type of thing isn't just put out there willy nilly.

True but it's Joker.

Warner Bro's knows that this will catch the attention of comic book fans and general audience alike.

 

[chintai80]

not surprised they released this.

wb is really confident in reeve's vision right now.

 

[C Prometheus]

Reeves did seem to say it's not the acid bath and it's not the cut smile in that interview.

I'm assuming his skin is also the result of whatever disease he has.

Makes sense. In the full, unedited interview, Reeves name-dropped David Lynch's The Elephant Man as being as much of an influence for this take on Joker's design, rather than just going back to The Man Who Laughs.

If I had to guess, it's less that this "John Doe" guy is going to fall into a vat of acid and get his skin bleached in a later film in order to become "The Joker." Rather John Doe already has all the makings and the personality of the Joker- but that moniker and the greater ambitions that come with that name will be something we see John Doe embrace somewhere in the near future.