The Batsuit Thread

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]368091[/split]

 

[regwec]

Discuss here Batsuits from movie, TV and comicbook; past, present and future.

Let's keep this fine tradition going!

 

[OP84CC82]

The Night Owl outfit was done and cast out of the same materials that have been used on all of the Batman outfits other than "Dark Knight" and "Dark Knight Rises"... which were segmented and multiple types of materials were used...

Just like the other Batman outfits, Night Owl was made and cast out of Foam Latex... done technically the same, basically , but driven differently artistically...

The material is light, flexible, provides great mobility... and works fine...

Before "Watchmen" came out, there was a lot of talk about the Bat suits.. and how the technique and material were dated... and always look "rubbery"...

The guys on Night Owl worked hard to show that the materials and technique work fine... it's more about the application.

The same crew that worked on Night Owl would love a shot at a Bat suit for the reboot... trust me on that one...

I wouldn't want any zippers though. It could interfere with the logo and such.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

The rubber is the batsuits is not lightweight, they often weigh as much as the actors themselves, and get very, very hot. With the Batsuit, it's even harder to get right because, the thinner you have the material, the harder it is to dye grey/black because the foam goes and crumbles, so then you make it thicker and it's harder to manoeuvre in.

The current Batman suit is mostly to accommodate for Bale. It's made from the same material (also used in Tron: Legacy), and is only a bit lighter, but gets less hot.

Nite Owl's costume can't be compared entirely because they used a different dying technique because it's different colours.

 

[Mr. Finger]

The rubber is the batsuits is not lightweight, they often weigh as much as the actors themselves, and get very, very hot. With the Batsuit, it's even harder to get right because, the thinner you have the material, the harder it is to dye grey/black because the foam goes and crumbles, so then you make it thicker and it's harder to manoeuvre in.

The current Batman suit is mostly to accommodate for Bale. It's made from the same material (also used in Tron: Legacy), and is only a bit lighter, but gets less hot.

Nite Owl's costume can't be compared entirely because they used a different dying technique because it's different colours.

Llama... it's just as easy to tint and color a thin cast, as it is to do a thick cast. It usually occurs in each pice anyhow... the stomach being thinner than the shoulders for instance?... no matter the thickness, the foam is tinted the same...in the bowl while mixing. The color will be the same in the thin area's and the thick area's ( usually shoulders ).

The suits are actually pretty darn light... it is the Capes that can get pretty darn heavy. And as far as the "crumbling issue?... let's just say a friend of mine has a couple of the "Forever" suits hanging in his closet... perfect... soft... flexible as the day they were made... The material should not crumble, the foam can be whipped up in the bowl to increase it's volume and be a lighter weight foam... this all happes from day one. The more you whip the foam in the bowl, the more it rises... and becomes lighter prior to injection. The less you whip the foam, the more dense it remains.. and will be more solid and heavy. Yes, it will get very warm... but that is usually added to by what ever kind of under-suit that they use to hold the batsuit together. If the foam crumbles, or is way too heavy , or does not move well... it may not be all because of the material... it may be part to do with the technician..

Funny that you mentioned "Tron"... do you know that the same guy that did the foam for the "Tron" suits"... did the "Night Owl" and "Oz" suits from "Watchmen" as well?... and used the same exact coloring techniques and foam? The difference betrween those suits is that the "Tron" suits had open area's where there was fabric in between... Night Owl did not...

You may be curious as to how I know this?... ya never know who's on the other end of these conversations... do you?....

trust me.. "Returns" , "Forever" , "B and R" , "Begins" , "Watchman" ( both "oz" and "night owl" ) , and "Tron"... all the same material... all colored the same way ( technically ) ... different artist's and technicians that effect the different out-comes...

You wanna talk "Watchmen" ? look at the "OZ" suit... same show.. same tech's... but it looks more like a muscle suit... even "comedians" arms were fake and foam latex... different colors?... yep... that's a bit on the tint in the foam... but mostly just comes down to the paint job...

the material is fine... it works great... some people just know how to use it a bit better than others...

Sorry for all of this "tech" crap... but there are a lot of "myths" out there with and about these materials... opportunities have been denied because of some "myths"... we have to be careful or we will end up what they did for "Green Lantern"....

I'm still looking for someone to get the Batsuit done right... there have been bits and pieces for me... but not an entire suit for one film...

still waiting to see that one..

 

[Mr. Finger]

speaking of things that have been made that I do like?... I still am a fan of the "Panther" Cowl from "Forever"... the suit was a little over "stylized".. and those damn nipples. But I still like the cowl...

Here is a pic of the "Panther" cowl at the body-shop faze being cleaned up by Eddy... like this one...

 

[OP84CC82]

speaking of things that have been made that I do like?... I still am a fan of the "Panther" Cowl from "Forever"... the suit was a little over "stylized".. and those damn nipples. But I still like the cowl...

Here is a pic of the "Panther" cowl at the body-shop faze being cleaned up by Eddy... like this one...

I think that so far, the Forever mask was probably the only one that got the Neal Adams mask right. I love that design. It sure as hell won't fit the Nolan costumes, I think their mask looks good for that suit, even if some don't like it. But the Forever on is dead on like the Neal Adams mask.

 

[OP84CC82]

The rubber is the batsuits is not lightweight, they often weigh as much as the actors themselves, and get very, very hot. With the Batsuit, it's even harder to get right because, the thinner you have the material, the harder it is to dye grey/black because the foam goes and crumbles, so then you make it thicker and it's harder to manoeuvre in.

The current Batman suit is mostly to accommodate for Bale. It's made from the same material (also used in Tron: Legacy), and is only a bit lighter, but gets less hot.

Nite Owl's costume can't be compared entirely because they used a different dying technique because it's different colours.

There's a difference though. The plates being a separate piece means that they could use a bodysuit underneath, which is made from a mesh material that's breathable that's apparently in use by the military. An entirely rubber bodysuit won't be as breathable.

 

[Mr. Finger]

There's a difference though. The plates being a separate piece means that they could use a bodysuit underneath, which is made from a mesh material that's breathable that's apparently in use by the military. An entirely rubber bodysuit won't be as breathable.

yep... I was just waiting for Nolan to take some dark grey material and stretch it over that "Dark Knight" suit...

but then there's the legs... never understood the design of the legs for "Knight" and "Rises"...

 

[OP84CC82]

yep... I was just waiting for Nolan to take some dark grey material and stretch it over that "Dark Knight" suit...

but then there's the legs... never understood the design of the legs for "Knight" and "Rises"...

Like spandex? I'm not sure it'd look that good. But yeah, I agree with you about the legs. The torso and arms I like a lot, even the helmet, but the fact that the legs look weird and the cape didn't drape over the shoulders kind of bothered me.

 

[Mr. Finger]

I suppose I should not have said "stretched"... leads the mind towards spandex, which I am not a fan of... how about a material that was "pulled" over the armor?

But there are some cool materials out there now... I wouldn't mind a material that was textured... but not so symmetric. More of an organic texture...

I've seen some pretty cool samples as of late that were impressive.

 

[OP84CC82]

I suppose I should not have said "stretched"... leads the mind towards spandex, which I am not a fan of... how about a material that was "pulled" over the armor?

But there are some cool materials out there now... I wouldn't mind a material that was textured... but not so symmetric. More of an organic texture...

I've seen some pretty cool samples as of late that were impressive.

I like spandex when used with another material over it, like Spider-Man's suit from Amazing Spider-Man and Catwoman's suit from Dark Knight Rises which is covered in a polyurethane shaped in a hexagonal pattern. But what material are you speaking of then?

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Llama... it's just as easy to tint and color a thin cast, as it is to do a thick cast. It usually occurs in each pice anyhow... the stomach being thinner than the shoulders for instance?... no matter the thickness, the foam is tinted the same...in the bowl while mixing. The color will be the same in the thin area's and the thick area's ( usually shoulders ).

The suits are actually pretty darn light... it is the Capes that can get pretty darn heavy. And as far as the "crumbling issue?... let's just say a friend of mine has a couple of the "Forever" suits hanging in his closet... perfect... soft... flexible as the day they were made... The material should not crumble, the foam can be whipped up in the bowl to increase it's volume and be a lighter weight foam... this all happes from day one. The more you whip the foam in the bowl, the more it rises... and becomes lighter prior to injection. The less you whip the foam, the more dense it remains.. and will be more solid and heavy. Yes, it will get very warm... but that is usually added to by what ever kind of under-suit that they use to hold the batsuit together. If the foam crumbles, or is way too heavy , or does not move well... it may not be all because of the material... it may be part to do with the technician..

Funny that you mentioned "Tron"... do you know that the same guy that did the foam for the "Tron" suits"... did the "Night Owl" and "Oz" suits from "Watchmen" as well?... and used the same exact coloring techniques and foam? The difference betrween those suits is that the "Tron" suits had open area's where there was fabric in between... Night Owl did not...

You may be curious as to how I know this?... ya never know who's on the other end of these conversations... do you?....

trust me.. "Returns" , "Forever" , "B and R" , "Begins" , "Watchman" ( both "oz" and "night owl" ) , and "Tron"... all the same material... all colored the same way ( technically ) ... different artist's and technicians that effect the different out-comes...

You wanna talk "Watchmen" ? look at the "OZ" suit... same show.. same tech's... but it looks more like a muscle suit... even "comedians" arms were fake and foam latex... different colors?... yep... that's a bit on the tint in the foam... but mostly just comes down to the paint job...

the material is fine... it works great... some people just know how to use it a bit better than others...

Sorry for all of this "tech" crap... but there are a lot of "myths" out there with and about these materials... opportunities have been denied because of some "myths"... we have to be careful or we will end up what they did for "Green Lantern"....

I'm still looking for someone to get the Batsuit done right... there have been bits and pieces for me... but not an entire suit for one film...

still waiting to see that one..

Ummmm, you might claim to be some sort of production insider, but in the production notes of Batman Begins, Chris Nolan (Director), Lindy Hemming (Designer) Julian Murray (Sculptor) and Christian Bale (Bruce Wayne/ Batman) all disagree with you. You shouldn't disagree with the people who actually design/make/wear the suit, especially when the information is available to anyone who can google "Batman Begins".

Tinting is done before the foam is thrown in the oven. Too dense and it can come out black, but the actor can't turn their head (B'89- B&R), too thin and the material wrinkles and crumbles, because too much dye undermines the structural integrity of the foam.

Your "friends" Panther suit may still be in reasonable condition, but that was still a very thick suit in comparison, hence why it could be darker and glossier.

EDIT- This information is even on the Batman Begins Wikipedia page.

 

[Mr. Finger]

Ummmm, you might claim to be some sort of production insider, but in the production notes of Batman Begins, Chris Nolan (Director), Lindy Hemming (Designer) Julian Murray (Sculptor) and Christian Bale (Bruce Wayne/ Batman) all disagree with you. You shouldn't disagree with the people who actually design/make/wear the suit, especially when the information is available to anyone who can google "Batman Begins".

Tinting is done before the foam is thrown in the oven. Too dense and it can come out black, but the actor can't turn their head (B'89- B&R), too thin and the material wrinkles and crumbles, because too much dye undermines the structural integrity of the foam.

Your "friends" Panther suit may still be in reasonable condition, but that was still a very thick suit in comparison, hence why it could be darker and glossier.

EDIT- This information is even on the Batman Begins Wikipedia page.

Batman wikipedia.. hmmm...

You're talking about one suit... one situation... perhaps it is Mr. Bale that had a problem with the "Begins" suit...
First off Llama.. I've made no claims... but I will tell you this... I've dealt with all of the materials in question, and all of the situations in question, when it comes to making these things. That said, this is not an argument.

This is me talking about what I know... and you talking about what you read...

Yes... tinting is done before it is in the oven... it is done before the foam is injected in to the mould.. like I mentioned in a previous post. It is done while the components are being added in to the bowl and while the foam is being mixed. ( usually in a Hobart mixer ).
Too much tint can effect the foam... but Black is easily achieved. Unless, of course , the foam technician adds to much of it...

Can foam crumble because of the tint?... yes... but you have to add a ****-load for it to get to that point. Usually the "crumble" has more to do with excessive curing agent, or over-baked foam in the oven. Sometimes the chemicals themselves can be bad or expired.

The density of the foam is not based on the colour, unless you are talking about the opacity of the colour itself?
The "density" , or firmness of the foam... is based on the technicians approach to the mix. During the "whipping" stage of the foam.. high-speed for a long time will add more air in to the mix. Thus, the foam's end result will be softer... and lighter...
It the technician goes through the "whipping" stage at a low speed?... for a short duration?... less air in the mix... less fluff... the foam does not rise as much, and will weigh more and feel more dense.
A lot of times the dense foam will be wanted or desired because it can take a hit better, and at times... last longer. But then you get a dense suit that will be tougher in a fight, but weigh a lot more and will feel hotter as well.

Some times, you may hear the terms "hero" suit.. or "stunt" suit?.. The hero being cleaner and lighter, the stunt suit being heavier and denser.. Both hero and stunt suits are made with the same material and colour... the "mix" will create a different result.

In the end.. the "density" is not judged or determined by the colour. That is why you can make really dense foam latex with no colour at all. the colour black has little to do with the fact that the actor can not turn his head. If the foam is too dense, and red... and the cowl is still too thick... the actor still won't be able to turn his head... you will get the same result no matter what colour it is.

My friend has a "Panther" suit because he was there when they were being made. And the "Panther" suit is actually thinner and lighter than the "Begins" suit. The neck of the cowl as well. The shine of these suits is more about the surface of the mould. If the piece being moulded has a high gloss to it, so will the pats that come out of it. Some of these suit have been filmed with out being painted, and some ended up being painted. The "gloss" is not about the pigment in the foam, or the colour chosen... the mould needs to have a clean and glossy surface. And the silicone needs to take the heat of the oven as well...

Again... I like the idea that you do research.. and are a fan of what has been done. That's cool...
Let's just say that the "internet" info... even on the official sights.. comes from the people in charge, not necessarily the people that did the work...

Sorry to the people that are reading this and thinking WTF.. like I said, I like this stuff... I'm hear to read and share what I and others think about the suits.
I'll calm down on the tech...
I just want to defend it because it works, and some actors and/or directors "hear" or "say" things about it.. and it becomes the truth rather than an opinion. Which is exactly what I'm sharing.. just my opinion...

Llama.. if you ever want to try this stuff... or make a suit?... let me know. Sometimes it's ok to ask people that know how to do it , rather than just reading up on the subject. Does the idea of a fabricating a suit interest you?
P.M. me... the more people involved, the cheaper it is to do...
cheers all...

 

[OP84CC82]

Batman wikipedia.. hmmm...

You're talking about one suit... one situation... perhaps it is Mr. Bale that had a problem with the "Begins" suit...
First off Llama.. I've made no claims... but I will tell you this... I've dealt with all of the materials in question, and all of the situations in question, when it comes to making these things. That said, this is not an argument.

This is me talking about what I know... and you talking about what you read...

Yes... tinting is done before it is in the oven... it is done before the foam is injected in to the mould.. like I mentioned in a previous post. It is done while the components are being added in to the bowl and while the foam is being mixed. ( usually in a Hobart mixer ).
Too much tint can effect the foam... but Black is easily achieved. Unless, of course , the foam technician adds to much of it...

Can foam crumble because of the tint?... yes... but you have to add a ****-load for it to get to that point. Usually the "crumble" has more to do with excessive curing agent, or over-baked foam in the oven. Sometimes the chemicals themselves can be bad or expired.

The density of the foam is not based on the colour, unless you are talking about the opacity of the colour itself?
The "density" , or firmness of the foam... is based on the technicians approach to the mix. During the "whipping" stage of the foam.. high-speed for a long time will add more air in to the mix. Thus, the foam's end result will be softer... and lighter...
It the technician goes through the "whipping" stage at a low speed?... for a short duration?... less air in the mix... less fluff... the foam does not rise as much, and will weigh more and feel more dense.
A lot of times the dense foam will be wanted or desired because it can take a hit better, and at times... last longer. But then you get a dense suit that will be tougher in a fight, but weigh a lot more and will feel hotter as well.

Some times, you may hear the terms "hero" suit.. or "stunt" suit?.. The hero being cleaner and lighter, the stunt suit being heavier and denser.. Both hero and stunt suits are made with the same material and colour... the "mix" will create a different result.

In the end.. the "density" is not judged or determined by the colour. That is why you can make really dense foam latex with no colour at all. the colour black has little to do with the fact that the actor can not turn his head. If the foam is too dense, and red... and the cowl is still too thick... the actor still won't be able to turn his head... you will get the same result no matter what colour it is.

My friend has a "Panther" suit because he was there when they were being made. And the "Panther" suit is actually thinner and lighter than the "Begins" suit. The neck of the cowl as well. The shine of these suits is more about the surface of the mould. If the piece being moulded has a high gloss to it, so will the pats that come out of it. Some of these suit have been filmed with out being painted, and some ended up being painted. The "gloss" is not about the pigment in the foam, or the colour chosen... the mould needs to have a clean and glossy surface. And the silicone needs to take the heat of the oven as well...

Again... I like the idea that you do research.. and are a fan of what has been done. That's cool...
Let's just say that the "internet" info... even on the official sights.. comes from the people in charge, not necessarily the people that did the work...

Sorry to the people that are reading this and thinking WTF.. like I said, I like this stuff... I'm hear to read and share what I and others think about the suits.
I'll calm down on the tech...
I just want to defend it because it works, and some actors and/or directors "hear" or "say" things about it.. and it becomes the truth rather than an opinion. Which is exactly what I'm sharing.. just my opinion...

Llama.. if you ever want to try this stuff... or make a suit?... let me know. Sometimes it's ok to ask people that know how to do it , rather than just reading up on the subject. Does the idea of a fabricating a suit interest you?
P.M. me... the more people involved, the cheaper it is to do...
cheers all...

In truth Mr. Finger, I'd really love to hear what your preference for a Batman costume in live-action would be. What materials would you use? Would you use another superhero costume as inspiration, or would you do something original that fit's the character instead of borrowing from another? And what setting would it be that your preferred costume would be in? A more exaggerated and gritty version of a modern city, a more gothic looking city, or something that harkens back more to the 30's, 40's, and 50's? Personally, I like modern settings because the audience can identify with it more, but still, what would you prefer?

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Long live this thread!!

 

[Mr. Finger]

In truth Mr. Finger, I'd really love to hear what your preference for a Batman costume in live-action would be. What materials would you use? Would you use another superhero costume as inspiration, or would you do something original that fit's the character instead of borrowing from another? And what setting would it be that your preferred costume would be in? A more exaggerated and gritty version of a modern city, a more gothic looking city, or something that harkens back more to the 30's, 40's, and 50's? Personally, I like modern settings because the audience can identify with it more, but still, what would you prefer?

I actually think that it is a tough one to do...
I get why Nolan went the way that he did, I just think that the suit now is kind of over-designed. I get the removable Cowl... the independent neck.. makes sense in the environment that Nolan has created. But from the waist down, to me it's a mess.

I always thought that a period piece would be cool... like the 'ol "Elseworld" stories from the '80's and early '90's would be fun. Batman in a retro-type suit.. going after the likes of Al Capone or something? Have the Batmobile actually look like the way that it was drawn in the '40's. Like a film noir.

I like the "look" that Anton Furst came up with for the '89 film... and in that world, the suit can be a little more stylized...

But to do a suit with a nod to Neal Adams?.. to achieve a film with a colourful palette?... that could be hard to do... and lord knows we don't want what we got from the Schumacher days. Perhaps like what Snyder tried with "Sucker Punch"? A really "over-stylized" film... coloured like a comic book... with a 6'4" Batman dressed in Dark Blue and Grey... Neal Adams like.. chasing a Joker with the look of "Killing Joke" or "Arkham Asylum"?
Robin could fit in there and get his butt killed as well?

That's why I think the dark blue and grey would be tough... I'd like to see it, but it may be a hard sell...

I'd like a movie that had the feeling of the film "Seven"... rated "R"... like a good scary horror film... and have the "Man-Bat" show up. Scary... bloody... and I think it could be cool... have some cool transformation stuff like "The Howling" or "American Werewolf in London"...
but that's the young one trapped inside of me.

Now as far as the materials?.. they already use the materials that would work, I've gone in to "WAY" too much detail about my thoughts on that.
It just comes down to the design... and it's execution.
That's why I mentioned "Watchmen"...

I think the "Batsuits" have spent to much energy trying to make them really clean... body-shopped... and smooth.. I still think the look of the '89 suit works, and those steps were not done.
I , personally , liked the top half of the "Dark Knight" suit... with a different Cowl and Cape... get rid of the "grid" on the legs... and just have Batman pull over some Dark Grey material over the top of it at the end of "Rises"... before he drives out of the Bat-Cave to go stand by his parents grave. Thats the ending I want to see... like they did in "MOTP".. Bruce Timm gets it..

The material does not really matter.. it's the "look" of the material. Could be a cotton or a wool even... the colour is important... as is a big black Bat on the chest. But the material over the armor that is from the "Dark Knight" suit could be cool.

some one else's turn... those are my thoughts..

 

[OP84CC82]

I actually think that it is a tough one to do...
I get why Nolan went the way that he did, I just think that the suit now is kind of over-designed. I get the removable Cowl... the independent neck.. makes sense in the environment that Nolan has created. But from the waist down, to me it's a mess.

I always thought that a period piece would be cool... like the 'ol "Elseworld" stories from the '80's and early '90's would be fun. Batman in a retro-type suit.. going after the likes of Al Capone or something? Have the Batmobile actually look like the way that it was drawn in the '40's. Like a film noir.

I like the "look" that Anton Furst came up with for the '89 film... and in that world, the suit can be a little more stylized...

But to do a suit with a nod to Neal Adams?.. to achieve a film with a colourful palette?... that could be hard to do... and lord knows we don't want what we got from the Schumacher days. Perhaps like what Snyder tried with "Sucker Punch"? A really "over-stylized" film... coloured like a comic book... with a 6'4" Batman dressed in Dark Blue and Grey... Neal Adams like.. chasing a Joker with the look of "Killing Joke" or "Arkham Asylum"?
Robin could fit in there and get his butt killed as well?

That's why I think the dark blue and grey would be tough... I'd like to see it, but it may be a hard sell...

I'd like a movie that had the feeling of the film "Seven"... rated "R"... like a good scary horror film... and have the "Man-Bat" show up. Scary... bloody... and I think it could be cool... have some cool transformation stuff like "The Howling" or "American Werewolf in London"...
but that's the young one trapped inside of me.

Now as far as the materials?.. they already use the materials that would work, I've gone in to "WAY" too much detail about my thoughts on that.
It just comes down to the design... and it's execution.
That's why I mentioned "Watchmen"...

I think the "Batsuits" have spent to much energy trying to make them really clean... body-shopped... and smooth.. I still think the look of the '89 suit works, and those steps were not done.
I , personally , liked the top half of the "Dark Knight" suit... with a different Cowl and Cape... get rid of the "grid" on the legs... and just have Batman pull over some Dark Grey material over the top of it at the end of "Rises"... before he drives out of the Bat-Cave to go stand by his parents grave. Thats the ending I want to see... like they did in "MOTP".. Bruce Timm gets it..

The material does not really matter.. it's the "look" of the material. Could be a cotton or a wool even... the colour is important... as is a big black Bat on the chest. But the material over the armor that is from the "Dark Knight" suit could be cool.

some one else's turn... those are my thoughts..

Some great insight. But I'm gonna have to disagree with you about the setting. I'm not a big fan of period pieces based on characters that aren't tied to a specific time period like Captain America. I like grittiness and I like a dirty looking Gotham. Maybe a mix of several aesthetics, but not going to far as to put people in outdated clothing and not having modern technology. More like a slightly exaggerated modern day American city. But not going too far into the past in terms of look and style.

 

[Mr. Finger]

I like the back and forth, but you don't have to quote me each time my friend... my posts are a big enough pain in the butt the first time... quoting them just makes it more painful for others...
cheers..

 

[OP84CC82]

I like the back and forth, but you don't have to quote me each time my friend... my posts are a big enough pain in the butt the first time... quoting them just makes it more painful for others...
cheers..

I see...

 

[dushan]

Yeah batman forever panther cowl is the best design.
It is the resone I am batman fan now , That cowl is very powerfull

 

[Radioactive1980]

B89 suit is the best.
That is all.

 

[Two-Face]

Without the nipples mind you panther bat suit is cool.

 

[regwec]

I don't like the anatomically unsound architecture of the Panther Suit.

It looks like it was designed by Rob Liefeld.

 

[DaveMoral]

The Panther suit really screams over-compensation. Haha.

Why is it called the Panther suit anyway?