The Best and Worst Moments of Infinite Crisis

[Darthphere]

You seem to be the one freaking out in anger here. Not me. I'm simply stating what's right in front of you.

The situation in question has been explained very well, both in the comics and in this thread. It has been shown to be within the characters' abilities to do what they have done. It's your problem if you can't come to believe that a magical mind controller is capable of manipulating the Spectre, who has no concept of right and wrong without a host, and thus very easily manipulated.

This isnt me angry, im calm as hell. Either way, I dont buy the explanations, and as you said thats my problem. It wont stop me however, from voicing my problems with said explanations. The posters in this thread have made great explanations to my problems but it still has flaws IMO. If you choose to believe it fine, im not getting on anyones ass about it, just that I dont. Either way im enjoying the hell out this event and the flawed logic hasnt stop me from doing so.

 

[I_am_budders]

I think someone allready hit it, but this pannel got to me the most:

It just reflects the true epic nature of the event, how out of control everything has gotten.

 

[Spike_x1]

This isnt me angry, im calm as hell. Either way, I dont buy the explanations, and as you said thats my problem. It wont stop me however, from voicing my problems with said explanations. The posters in this thread have made great explanations to my problems but it still has flaws IMO. If you choose to believe it fine, im not getting on anyones ass about it, just that I dont. Either way im enjoying the hell out this event and the flawed logic hasnt stop me from doing so.

If you don't like the explanation, fine. But there's nothing flawed about its logic.

I don't happen like the explanation for the past continuity errors as simply being "Superboy punched his way through reality," but the logic does fit and is not flawed in any way because it perfectly explains how and why those continuity errors occured.

And about my accusations of you being angry; that stems from you calling me an ass, even though I was merely agreeing with the previous posters. Based on your insult, it seemed likely that I had angered you in some way. Now, if you're not angry, and you just called me an ass for the hell of it, then perhaps I should be the one getting angry at you, ass.

 

[batnkevlar]

I think someone allready hit it, but this pannel got to me the most:

It just reflects the true epic nature of the event, how out of control everything has gotten.

What's happening? Is he sneezing?

Oh, and what are Psycho Pirate's powers?

Oh, and man, face's getting punched in with eyeballs flying out, is DC getting more graphic?

 

[BlackOpsTengu]

"-Superman vs. Superman was a pretty big disappointment."

Not if you throw in the "This is your life Superman" issues! The fight panels done by Benes help capture, with the exception of Wonder Woman seeing the ruined Metropolis, just how massive a fight this really was.

Two Supermen, each convinced they're doing the right thing, going totally berzerk on each other.

Awesome.

 

[The Question]

Oh, and what are Psycho Pirate's powers?

He can mainpulate emotions. Sounds relatively harmless, but he's got it down to an artform. He can get you to do exactly what he wants you to do without you even realizing it.

 

[Spike_x1]

Just a random thought, but what happened to the Psycho Pirate's appearance that he had during "Underworld Unleashed"? Where he had a new (and cooler IMO) costume and the Medusa Mask became one with his face, transforming into more of an eyepatch?

Did that appearance revert at the end of that story and I just missed it, or did he just magically go back to his old look at some point over the years?

 

[BrianWilly]

For those who think that Psycho Pirate could never control the Spectre, Psycho Pirate never did control the Spectre. He controlled Jean Loring, who then seduced the Spectre. Much less difficult.

I personally just thought that the whole "MAGIC!" aspect of Alex Luthor's plans required far, far more leaps of faith or reason than any other part of his plans.

He just so happens to need raw magic in order to power his tower. It just so happens that you can get raw magic by destroying existing magic. And it just so happens that the Spectre and Eclipso were around and hostless for him to hoodwink.

How does Alex know any of these things, anyway? He's a scientist, not a magician. At any point, any part of this very methodical plan could have gone wrong; magic by nature is not very predictable, and are run by hosts of powers far, far more terrible than he. I can buy that none of the lords of the age could detect Alex Luthor's influence -- and even they could detect it a little -- but how did Alex know that they couldn't?

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

I thought the Flash family dog-piling Superboy Prime was pretty cool.

I also liked Black Adam confronting Superboy Prime, (for all the good it did).

Was a bit disappointed in Superman vs Superman.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I thought the Supermen's fight was one of the highlights. The "Superman, This Is Your Life" arc was great.

 

[BrianWilly]

Oh, I thought we were just including scenes from the main series itself. "This is Your Life, Superman" was a pretty good story, but the scene as it played out in IC#5 was pretty lame, especially when it was the primary tease of the Perez cover.

If we're adding the tie-ins...

Rann/Thanager Special
-Jade's death, and subsequent Kyle as Ion.

-Full-page spread of all the ships converging on Alex's hands.

Teen Titans Annual
-All the heroes working together and helping and acting like heroes in Bludhaven.

-HARDCORE SEX!!!!

 

[The Leaguer]

What's happening? Is he sneezing?

He's crying.

 

[BlackOpsTengu]

I'm surprised the death of Jade isn't being listed here, considering how much smack gets talked about her.

 

[Darthphere]

For those who think that Psycho Pirate could never control the Spectre, Psycho Pirate never did control the Spectre. He controlled Jean Loring, who then seduced the Spectre. Much less difficult.

I personally just thought that the whole "MAGIC!" aspect of Alex Luthor's plans required far, far more leaps of faith or reason than any other part of his plans.

He just so happens to need raw magic in order to power his tower. It just so happens that you can get raw magic by destroying existing magic. And it just so happens that the Spectre and Eclipso were around and hostless for him to hoodwink.

How does Alex know any of these things, anyway? He's a scientist, not a magician. At any point, any part of this very methodical plan could have gone wrong; magic by nature is not very predictable, and are run by hosts of powers far, far more terrible than he. I can buy that none of the lords of the age could detect Alex Luthor's influence -- and even they could detect it a little -- but how did Alex know that they couldn't?

I think youre the only one that kind of understands what im saying.

 

[GOODT!MES]

...."HARDCORE SEX!!!!"

Wow, did I ever miss that annual.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

For those who think that Psycho Pirate could never control the Spectre, Psycho Pirate never did control the Spectre. He controlled Jean Loring, who then seduced the Spectre. Much less difficult.

I personally just thought that the whole "MAGIC!" aspect of Alex Luthor's plans required far, far more leaps of faith or reason than any other part of his plans.

He just so happens to need raw magic in order to power his tower. It just so happens that you can get raw magic by destroying existing magic. And it just so happens that the Spectre and Eclipso were around and hostless for him to hoodwink.

How does Alex know any of these things, anyway? He's a scientist, not a magician. At any point, any part of this very methodical plan could have gone wrong; magic by nature is not very predictable, and are run by hosts of powers far, far more terrible than he. I can buy that none of the lords of the age could detect Alex Luthor's influence -- and even they could detect it a little -- but how did Alex know that they couldn't?

Well, his plans have gone wrong already and he's just rolling with the punches. The heroes screwed up his big tower and freed everyone from it, but Superboy Prime showed up again and demanded his Earth back, so Alex just went with it and decided to make Earth-Prime the basis for his perfect world. It's possible that he's been doing that all along, changing his plans to work around whatever kinks have come up.

As for the magic question, I've always understood the DC universe to work on the fact that everything comes from the Source, magic included. Thus, Alex Luthor may have just been able to harness magic the same as he would any other energy. He's a scientist, yes, but he's a scientist operating on a level of science that puts just about everyone else to shame. It's possible that at his level of super-science, magic becomes just another form of energy.

Regarding the Spectre and Eclipso, it was fortuitous that they were both hostless, but I'm pretty sure Alex orchestrated Eclipso's hostlessness himself. He had Superboy Prime salvage what was left of Eclipso's stone after the JSA defeated him, as I recall. And the fluctuations in magic were suitably explained for me. The Spectre didn't just destroy magical beings; he took out pillars of magic--things that kept the raw magical energy of the universe in check and stabilized in the recognizable forms we've known. That's why he went after Atlantis, Shazam, the Phantom Stranger, etc. Those are all people and places that are integral to the structure of magic in the "Ninth Age" of magic that the DCU was apparently in up until DoV. Now those pillars have been shattered and magic has lost its cohesion, reverting to raw energy. New pillars will have to come up to stabilize it for the Tenth Age.

 

[The Batman]

The Good

*The return of Earth 2 Superman

*Villains United

*Batman leading his team of heroes against Brother Eye. The whole thing was awesome

*Connor goes out like a hero

*The Flashes stop SB Prime

*Batman being less of an ass in general

The Bad

*Superman vs Superman was a bit weak

*Not enough of Superman in the whole series

*Ted dying

 

[Amazing Afroman]

He's crying.

I actually thought that he was sweating. But that makes sense too I suppose.

 

[Spike_x1]

Regarding the Spectre and Eclipso, it was fortuitous that they were both hostless, but I'm pretty sure Alex orchestrated Eclipso's hostlessness himself. He had Superboy Prime salvage what was left of Eclipso's stone after the JSA defeated him, as I recall. And the fluctuations in magic were suitably explained for me. The Spectre didn't just destroy magical beings; he took out pillars of magic--things that kept the raw magical energy of the universe in check and stabilized in the recognizable forms we've known. That's why he went after Atlantis, Shazam, the Phantom Stranger, etc. Those are all people and places that are integral to the structure of magic in the "Ninth Age" of magic that the DCU was apparently in up until DoV. Now those pillars have been shattered and magic has lost its cohesion, reverting to raw energy. New pillars will have to come up to stabilize it for the Tenth Age.

Good explanation . You put it into more fancy terms than I would have done, but I originally thought that the basics of that were obvious to readers.

I guess that assumption was wrong on my part.

 

[Pksoze]

So I'm the only one who thought the Anti Monitor tower looked cool.

 

[ToddIsDead]

I thought it was pretty cool. Yet another thing that harkens back to the original Crisis.

 

[Pksoze]

I thought it was pretty cool. Yet another thing that harkens back to the original Crisis.

It really in my mind solidified Alexander Luthor as a true badass.

To have the corpse of the Anti Monitor (in some ways the ultimate villain) as a tuning fork was ultimately very cool.

 

[ToddIsDead]

It really in my mind solidified Alexander Luthor as a true badass.

To have the corpse of the Anti Monitor (in some ways the ultimate villain) as a tuning fork was ultimately very cool.

Can't agree more

 

[Pksoze]

Can't agree more

Actually this leads me to what I consider to be the worst thing about Infinite Crisis... it will take a long time before we ever get an epic as good.

Another sad fact is that lots of people don't realize (mostly the crybabies in the DC messageboards) is that this is a superior series to the Original Crisis.

It had a better build up, more interesting villains, better crossovers, and will probably have a more cohesive plan to pick up the pieces. Plus its just better written than the original Crisis.

Its raised the bar for epics so the question is can it be topped?

 

[ToddIsDead]

Whenever I want to read a big epic story again, I'll just gather my hundreds of IC comics and read them again. It's amazing how well this has been planned. It's been leading up to this for years. Which leads me to this question: Has Geoff Johns been behind this for a few years, and orchestrating the events that have happened in the DCU, or has it been all of DC working together to plan this and Geoff only happened to get to write the main series?