The Best and Worst of Marvel Thread

[JewishHobbit]

It seems that in any given thread we are constantly having conversations popping up comparing eras, characters, titles, etc. So here's my thought... why don't we all discuss these things in one thread? I figure we can bring up topics and just discuss. It may do well, it may die away to oblivion. The only thing I ask is to add some depth to your posts and opinions. Just listing storylines or characters or titles, well that tells us nothing. Really get into why you like or hate something or someone. Give us something to discuss.

So I'll start it off by presenting the first question so we can all discuss, debate, mock, etc.

What is/was the best running storyline in an ongoing title?

After considering it, here is what I've decided:

Spectacular Spider-Man 178-200

Entirely written by J.M. Dematties and drawn by Sal Buscema, this run was just phenominal. It had several plots that continued almost consistently with a few odds and ins that were fit in well. It wasn't all over the place or bogged down with crossovers. It had a great cast of characters involved and they were all written superbly and in three dimensions.

178-184: The Child Within 1-6 and the aftermath issue - This arc was one of the first comicbook stories I'd ever read and it made me a fan immediately. This begins the awesome arc concerning the fate of Harry Osborn as he embraces his father's legacy as the Green Goblin. We really get into his mind as he goes back and forth on it until the ultimate conclusion of him vs Peter. Also in this arc the brainless villain from Kraven's Last Hunt, Vermin, is fleshed out and made a very deep character with serious scares from his past dealing with sexual abuse as a child. And lastly we're given Peter Parker's personal issues with being buried alive, as well as his issues regarding the death of his parents. This was a very deep and well thought out storyline. It was just amazing with great lasting repercussions.

185 - This was just a fun oneshot story with Frog Man. It's lighthearted and gives us a break from the dark and deep story we just came out of. It as a fun read that flowed well with the rest of the run.

186-188: Funeral Arrangements 1-3 - This was great. The Vulture comes down with cancer and searches to make amends in his life by killing all those whose done him wrong. It gets good though when he comes to Aunt May and desires her forgiveness for killing her fiance Nathan several years previous. Seeing such a villains as the Vulture being so remorseful and human balanced with his evilness at others, and of course his hate of Spider-Man, was just a great story. I think this was the best Vulture story ever written.

189 - Hologram cover and the next big chapter in the Harry Osborn saga. Peter's been looking for him over the past few issues (until finding Frog Man and then Vulture) and finally finds him here as he abducts his wife and child, Liz and Normie, as well as Liz's brother Mark Raxton the Molten Man. He wanted to bring his family into the Osborn Legacy but it was against their will and Spider-Man comes to the rescue. I loved seeing the Peter/Harry battle as well as seeing a semi-villain, Molten Man, work with Spider-Man for the good of his family. In the end Spider-Man defeats and brings Harry in but with the threat of Harry knowing his identity and can reveal it at any time.

190 - The Rhino comes out of a fog and goes on a hunt for, not Spider-Man, but Peter Parker. After a battle finishes, Rhino reveals to Spidey that he was hired to rough up Parker and he didn't know why. Harry messes with Peter from prison, which of course, screws around with Peter's mind a bit.

191-193: Eye of the Puma 1-3 - While this arc was good it was very disconnected from the rest of the run. It deals with storylines established prior to 178, but it's still a good read. Basically, Peter and the Puma have been building to a final confrontation for quite some time in this title and this is where it comes to a head. A bit of an interuption but it doesn't really feel like one and it's still a good story.

194-196: The Death of Vermin - This is a bit opposite from Eye of the Puma, in that if fits the run well as an aftermath to Child Within, but it's not as good as the rest of the run. It goes into more depth into the mind of Vermin and has him deal with Baron Zemo, who made him like he is. I'd say this is the weak link to this run, though still good.

198-199 - This is a fun arc that serves not only to lighten the mood a bit with a team up with the X-Men (a thing always awesome but seldom seen), but it also becomes dark again with the release of Harry Osborn and the build up to the big final to the Harry Osborn Saga next issue.

200: The Death of Harry Osborn - This is what it was all building to and it paid off wonderfully. Harry finally gets the guts to really go after Peter and wins. He defeats Peter fulfledged, but after winning has a heart change and rushes to save Peter's life. Acomplishing this turnaround was very heartfelt for the character and their longterm friendship, but poisoning due to the Goblin Formula runs its course and Harry dies a hero, having saved Peter's life. It's a very emotional issue in the end as Harry and Peter clasp hands in the moment of his death and his body is led away, and finally we're left with a picture of the old days when the two were friends and laughing.


Man, this was a very heartfelt storyline that ran it's course with a beginning, middle, and end. It had several storylines and really fleshed out the characters to make you care, particularly Harry as the Goblin, Vermin, and the Vulture. Even Rhino's one issue made me love the character.

After this was Maximum Carnage which, while I liked it, started a trend of misdirection for the book as it becomes lost in mediocrity and crossovers, no longer standing on it's own until its cancelation years later. The stories weren't as consistently good and the inking or coloring or something really got dark and more distracting.



So what do you guys think? What's your favorite run in an ongoing title and why? Talk to me!

 

[runawayboulder]

That run of SSM was incredible. Other runs I've loved over the years have been:

ASM - Black costume/Hobgoblin era #250-275
ASM - David Micheline/McFarlane/Larsen #300-350
Avengers - Stern/Buscema run
Avengers - Busiek/Perez (also Davis/Dwyer)
Uncanny X-Men - Claremont/Silvestri (Australia era)

But my favorite of all time was Gruenwald/Dwyer Cap Quits Saga, hands down. Steve did the unthinkable in #332 and quit being Cap instead of become the US government's personal slave. Enter John Walker as the new Cap and Lemar Hoskins as Bucky (soon to become Battlestar) for a few issues fighting terrorists like the Watchdogs, ect.

Steve resurfaced a few issues later sporting a beard after being tracked down by his loyal buddies Falcon, Nomad and D-Man (plus Nomad's girlfriend @ the time Vagabond). They convince him to get back in the game as The Captain with a sweet all-black variation of the original Cap costume. Together the team takes on a small faction of the Serpent Society in Las Vegas.

Over time the issues jumped back and forth between Walker and Rogers as they battled the Watchdogs, The Resistance and the Serpent Society/Viper. The latter tried to wrestle control of the Society from the leader Sidewinder and poison Washington DC's water supply turning the citizens (including then prez Ronald Reagan) into snake people.

During that time Walker as Cap went up against some of his old wrestling buddies that revealed his true ID to the public. This led to the Watchdogs murdering Walker's parents in turn leading to Walker's decent into insane behavior. Battlestar was stuck trying to help his best friend cope with his loss but covering up his deteriorating mental state from Valerie Cooper and the rest of the Commission of Super Human Activities.

The Commissioner of the committee is seen carrying out a seemingly personal vendetta against Rogers and in time it is revealed that he is working for the long thought dead Red Skull (who's residing in a cloned body of Steve Rogers). At the tail end of the saga, Walker is taken down by Flag Smasher in Antarctica and is rescued by Steve and Battlestar with help from D-Man. Steve helps F-Smasher wrestle control of terrorist group U.L.T.I.M.A.T.I.U.M. from who he claims is the Skull.

I can't remember the details but U.L.T.I.M.A.T.I.U.M. has some sort of bomb that the Skull is going to use and Flag Smasher agrees to help disarm the bomb if Steve helps him, so Steve's hands are more or less tied. In the end D-Man is killed when on of the U.L.T.I.M.A.T.I.U.M. soldiers plants a bomb on the Quinjet D-Man was piloting. Flag Smasher escapes and Battlestar gets Walker back to the US before the commission finds out (they've already tried to strip Walker of the shield a few times at that point;he was on really thin ice because he was displaying psychotic behavior).

Things came to a head in Cap #350 as the Commission was discovered as a fraud before being killed by the Skull. Steve and Walker fought for the right to become Cap (really Walker was manipulated by the Skull since he now looked like Steve and framed Rogers for everything that happened to him). Steve discovered his long time nemesis indeed was alive and the Skull lost his Steve-face when he accidentally sucked down a face-full of the Dust of Death hidden in his cigarette. The Skull then actually became a Red Skull surviving due to his body now having the Super Soldier Serum in it. The scene of the Skull after he was changed by the dust was a memorable panel by Kieron Dwyer.

I loved this saga because it set up the status-quo for the next 3 or 4 yrs of CA. Gruenwald continued on with a bunch of great stories involving many of the characters and plot-lines introduced in the Cap Quits saga. Diamondback/Steve relationship, The Skull back in the Marvel U, Steve back living in Avengers Mansion after being away for so long and Walker coming back from his mental anguish to become US Agent.

I don't know if it's ever been collected in a trade, because I've got all of the issues, but it stands out as my all time favorite.

 

[venom892]

I'll go ahead and agree Spectacular #178-200 is one of the best Spidey runs of all time.It took a little while but I also came to really appreciate and love Buscema's Art.I tracked down all the issues after reading Kraven's Last Hunt(possibly my favorite arc of all time.)I love the way that Demattis's delves into the character's minds and picks them apart.The conflict has within himself between his father's legacy and is brother like friendship to Peter has never been displayed as well as it was in this storyline.The sad thing is Harry was keeping the circle going and was transforming Normie into what Norman made him into.The issue where he gathers Liz,Molten Man and Normie for "Family Dinner" was both disturbing and Heartbreaking.I loved the next issue as well where Spidey basically took all his frustrations out on Rhino.Harry's Death issue was emotional and superbly well written and drawn.This run is one of the reasons I was so against Harry coming back.Other Runs I loved and will touch upon later because I'm too tired now.

JMS/Romita Jr.-ASM vol.2 #30-#508
All of Daredevil vol.2(This has consistently been one of marvel's best reads for years!)
Brubaker's Captain America
Immortal Iron Fist
and others I'm sure I am forgetting at the time.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Daredevil from Bendis through current was a run that I was really considering, and so was the Immortal Iron Fist title, every issue of it. Both of them are by far some of the best runs I've ever read but I kept going back to that Spectacular Spider-Man run. Personally, I wasn't as against Harry Osborn coming back as much as how it was done. Just BOOM and he's back Brand New Day, and then when they explain it wasn't Mephisto who did it but that he never died and was basically Norman Osborn junior in France (real original there guys) that made it even worse.

ASM - Black costume/Hobgoblin era #250-275
ASM - David Micheline/McFarlane/Larsen #300-350
Avengers - Stern/Buscema run
Avengers - Busiek/Perez (also Davis/Dwyer)
Uncanny X-Men - Claremont/Silvestri (Australia era)

I've not read those Avenger runs (well, a little of Busiek's but not enough to form an opinion). That Spider-Man run during the Black Costume was great though, but even better, and it skipped around, was the full story of the Hobgoblin. Starting at 238 and off and on through the next few years until the reveal that he was Ned Leeds (and he was still Ned Leeds to me). It was all phenominal! Throw in a couple Rose issues and it all played out amazing. I think Hobgoblin may potentially be my top Spidey villain for that reason (Shocker might be tied with him). I even grew to love Macendale due to the original Leeds arc. I know it eventually was revealed that Leeds was innoscent and Kingsley was the original, but Leeds was such a better choice, and that reveal came a good ten or twenty years after the arc finished, which annoyed me.


And that Captain America run seems pretty cool. I never cared enough for the character to read his adventures solo, even Brubaker can't keep my attention, but I've recently bought some of those Acts of Vengeance tie-ins and the issue where Magneto fought Red Skull due to the whole Nazi thing was just fantastic. Ron Lim's art certainly helps. So I'm curious about that time period.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

Well I'll tell ya which issue of the Index will cover those books so you can at least read up on it, JH (incidentally, I did most of those "Cap Quits" issues).

I think one of my favorite runs I've read recently was the Bernie Rosenthal era of Cap, from Cap 248-313. A good many of them were written by DeMatteis and some by Gruenwald. I like it because it showed Marvel was, at some point, able to balance the hero with his personal life and keep it INTERESTING. Before the Index I only had a handfull of these books, which reading individually didn't give the same impact as reading them in succession.

I was trying to think of the absolute worst thing I've read recently, but the one that instantly pops to mind is Daredevil: Father by Quesada. Holy hell was that thing a stinker from start to finish. AND IT WAS DELAYED! I have yet to figure out what the point of that book was. Another good awful book was Ultimate Wolverine vs. Hulk, and the recent Omega the Unknown mini. The stories and art just wasn't worth the cover price, and in UWvH's case not worth the 3-year delay.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I was planning to ask about the worst runs or stories eventually. You have time to consider it

 

[runawayboulder]

And that Captain America run seems pretty cool. I never cared enough for the character to read his adventures solo, even Brubaker can't keep my attention, but I've recently bought some of those Acts of Vengeance tie-ins and the issue where Magneto fought Red Skull due to the whole Nazi thing was just fantastic. Ron Lim's art certainly helps. So I'm curious about that time period.

Yeah that was a year or 2 after Cap #350. Skull had just started to establish himself as a major villain on the Marvel U with Acts of Vengeance and clashed all the time with Doom and Magneto.

Cap #350 and Avengers #300 were kinda similar to Dark Reign/SIEGE in a way because their lives were upside down for so long. Cap wasn't Cap and the Avengers had broke up (at least the East Coast team did). Those 2 issues were a turning point at the time and a new era. It was like the Heroic Age before the current Heroic Age.

 

[runawayboulder]

That Spider-Man run during the Black Costume was great though, but even better, and it skipped around, was the full story of the Hobgoblin. Starting at 238 and off and on through the next few years until the reveal that he was Ned Leeds (and he was still Ned Leeds to me). It was all phenominal! Throw in a couple Rose issues and it all played out amazing. I think Hobgoblin may potentially be my top Spidey villain for that reason (Shocker might be tied with him). I even grew to love Macendale due to the original Leeds arc. I know it eventually was revealed that Leeds was innoscent and Kingsley was the original, but Leeds was such a better choice, and that reveal came a good ten or twenty years after the arc finished, which annoyed me.

There was a great web site I found and posted over in the Spidey comics forum (it's been deleted I just found out). It was called Spidey Kicks Ass! and had incredible in depth articles about the Black Costume/ Hobgoblin/Rose era. Google it, it's great reading!

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Eh, I imagine asking what the "best storyline ever" is will result in a lot of duplicate answers, since there seem to be a universally recognized bunch of phenomenal stories that are everybody's favorites. So I'm gonna go with a lesser-known personal favorite of my own: the Thanos/Mangog arc in Thor vol. 2 #20-25. People always cite the Simonson era as the best representation of what Thor's all about, and that's certainly fair. But outside of Beta Ray Bill, Simonson tended to stick to mythology. Thor always had one foot in mythology, but what some may not realize is that he also had his other foot firmly planted in the cosmic arena. Thor traveled the stars and encountered alien races as often as the FF or the Silver Surfer in his earliest years. The earliest telling of Galactus' origin, in fact, comes from some of Kirby's Thor comics, not FF, and the first appearance of Ego, now a staple of Marvel's cosmos, is in Thor. So, all of that said, the reason I personally love this Thanos/Mangog story so much is that it's a really fantastic representation of Thor's unique combination of mythology and cosmic stories.

It starts when Mangog, a monstrously powerful being created from the rage of an entire race that Odin destroyed long ago, attacks Orikal, a prophet from another dimension and ally of Asgard, and steals an artifact Orikal was secretly guarding. From there, the story becomes a web of intrigue as Mangog reveals he and Odin's personal advisor Tarakis are working for none other than Thanos, pursuing yet another scheme to seize control of the universe and impress Death.

This time, Thanos is trying to obtain various artifacts, including a living being known as the Designate--a prophesied messianic figure who's supposedly destined to raise all sentient life to its next stage of evolution or enlightenment or something. Thanos, being Thanos, casually murders the Designate's entire race in his search for her. Thor tries to stop Thanos from taking the Designate by himself but fails.

As the characters finally reveal their allegiances and the stage becomes set for active conflict, Thor finds he's not without allies of his own: a Rygellian Recorder shows up, followed by Firelord. Ultimately, Thanos actually achieves his goal, becomes seemingly all-powerful, and beats the living crap out of Thor. Thankfully, Orikal foresaw that Thor would not be able to stop Thanos on his own, so Odin commissioned Balder to find and enlist the aid of Jagrfelm, a dark elf smith who can create incredibly powerful magic weapons.

As Thanos stands poised to lay waste to the universe, Jagrfelm completes his work and Odin sends Firelord, with the mystical artifacts, to Thor. Meanwhile, Thor, in true superheroic fashion, picks himself back up from his earlier defeat and finally manages to beat Mangog all on his own. But Thanos is still too much and he catches Thor in an energy field that would've killed him if not for the Recorder's intervention. Damaged almost beyond repair, the Recorder--supposedly a soulless automaton to his creators on Rygel--nobly sacrifices himself, disrupting the energy field and allowing Thor a chance to escape. Firelord arrives and takes Tarakis down before delivering Jagrfelm's weapons, which boost Thor's power, enabling him to finally defeat Thanos.

Basically, the story is just an incredibly thrilling ride from start to finish. It's the kind of adventure that made me love comics in the first place for their unique ability to portray virtually anything, limited only by the creators' imaginations. In this case, Dan Jurgens and John Romita, Jr.'s imaginations produced a really outlandish, fun, and harrowing tale filled with some of the absolute best action scenes I've ever seen in a Thor comic. Sure, Thanos' defeat here was later retconned by Jim Starlin by stating this Thanos was merely a clone, and within another ten issues or so, Jurgens' Thor would become kind of bland, but for those five issues--the final issues of Romita's run on the series--Thor was right up there with the Simonson or Lee or Thomas or any other of his best eras again.

Oh, by the way, the Designate's name? Tarene. So for anyone wondering why I love Thor Girl (in spite of the name) so much and wish she would be treated as part of the Asgardians' family of characters instead of forgotten most of the time--now you know.

 

[Themanofbat]

If I'm going to pick a small run on Spider-Man (truthfully, ASM #1 to 251 is an outstanding run), I would pick ASM #186 to 200... Marv Wolfman uses an old sub-plot from Len Wein's previous run and ties it up with #200 where a powerless Peter Parker stands up against the man who killed his Uncle Ben... it was a coming of age for Peter Parker, and had #200 been the last Spider-Man comic ever made, I would have been fine with that....

Another obscure yet fantastic run would be Micronauts #1 to 28, which basically highlights the 'Nauts War against Baron Karza, whom gets "defeated" in issue #12, then a few highlights of some of the characters' backgrounds, like Bug in issue #13, all the while witnessing the return of Karza that culminates with his defeat (finally) in issue #28.

Those two runs demonstrate Matvel at its best...

Great stuff...

 

[Spider-Vader]

No worsts yet, so Loeb's run on Hulk.


I f***ing hate Rulk.

 

[JewishHobbit]

That's because I haven't asked for Worsts yet

I figure I'll give each question a week and then ask a new question. If you guys want to do worst run then I can do that next... but let's not jump the gun.

 

[runawayboulder]

The worst? There's WAY TOO MANY to be mentioned. How about anything Marvel mid 90's without an X in front of it....?

 

[Spider-Gnome]

OK, the three runs I enjoyed the most reading Spider-Man are:

The post-Gwen/Ross Andru era of the 70's

This starts around the death of Gwen Stacy and goes up to Pete's Graduation from college/Ross Andru leaves the title. This is where I started collecting. The era featured the Death of Gwen & the Green Goblin/Norman Osborn, Harry becoming the Goblin, Hamilton becoming Goblin III, intro of Punisher & Jackal and the original Clone Saga, Doc Ock trying to marry Aunt May (!), the development of Pete & MJ's relationship (including the big first kiss at the airport & first wedding proposal), and things like Man-Wolf and Mindworm!

The Hobgoblin era of the 80's

This runs from the start of Hobgoblin up to the Ned Leeds reveal. This era featured Hobgoblin, Gang Wars, Death of Jean DeWolff, Secret Wars, the black costume, Jack O'Lantern and Rose, the return of MJ, the reveal of her knowing Pete's id, her backstory, and further developing Pete & MJ's relationship which would later lead to their marriage.

The MacFarlane/Larsen era of the late 80's/early 90's

Running approximatly from ASM 300 to 350. Featured the start of Venom, MacFarlane's new takes on designs of Spidey & villains, new Sinister Six line-ups, and a Pete & MJ marriage that worked.

 

[runawayboulder]

Great choices Spider-Gnome!

 

[Spider-Vader]

That's because I haven't asked for Worsts yet

I figure I'll give each question a week and then ask a new question. If you guys want to do worst run then I can do that next... but let's not jump the gun.

Fail for me then.

But Brubaker's run on Captain America is easily the best Cap run. It's fun, has interesting stories, good art, good dialogue, great characters & it made the lame idea of Bucky as Captain America cool. Honestly, I'd be fine with Bucky as Cap forever.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Heh.. I kinda forgot all about this and never did get back to it. I figure I'll get it going again and see if there's interest to continue. Since it's been so long feel free to continue with the Best ongoing run thing but I'm going to switch it up now.

Next topic, dealing with Spider-Man, will be Worst of Spider-Man. (Note, I'm not focusing on this because of my disdain for the modern direction but mostly to just get it out of the way so we can move on to better things).

Now, I think this is a no brainer for everyone as far as what I'll pick but it's obviously One More Day, and in connection to that, One Moment In Time (OMD and OMIT).

OMD - I'll admit, this started out really good with a good premise, and even as a whole the story is pretty interesting. The only part I thought was stupid prior to the last issue was that Doctor Strange couldn't save May from a gunshot wound, but other than that not so bad. Even the Spider-Man/Iron Man fight in issue one leading to Jarvis coming to take care of May was very good (save for the fact that it ended up being the Skrull Jarvis). Really, it was the ending that makes this the beginning of the worst Spider-Man plot ever.

Despite your opinion of the marriage or Brand New Day, I think most people agree that THIS story failed. Peter was very out of character in accepting Mephisto's deal (and the deal itself wasn't so bad, it's very Mephisto-like). Then all the changes that came due to the story that BND writers had to clean up afterwords (and to the best of my knowledge the organic webbing thing still isn't explained). The worst part about it though was that it not only undid the marriage but erased it from continuity all together. THAT is what hurt here. If it just made everyone forget the marriage happened like it did Peter's identity it wouldn't be so bad, but no, it made it so that it wouldn't exist. To hurt 20 years of good established history is a serious sore spot on the franchise and bad writing (or planning I suppose, as Straczynski did the best with what he was told to do).

OMIT - This failed in that it was an attempt to explain some of the issues caused by OMD but only raised more questions, and not in a good way. It has to ignore Marvel Sciences in order to make OMD work, such as how these events do not create alternate realities and so forth. Unlike OMD, this story didn't have promise from the get go. It sucked from the first issue on and every issue was a smudge on Spider-Man's history.


The undoing of the marriage was one of the things Quesada wanted to spearhead into existence during his tenior at Editor-in-Chief, and while he's done a lot of good for Marvel I can't help but think that THIS will be what he will be remembered for... for good or for bad. Ultimately though, I think it will be for bad at least with how he went about it. Even those in support of BND typically admit that both OMD and OMIT were badly told and planned stories.

So yeah, there's been some bad areas for Spider-Man during his long run but those two stories are easily the worst... in my opinion.

So what do you guys think?

 

[runawayboulder]

I think all of the complaints I've heard about OMD/BND, the main one was that we were getting stuff that was done before in the 70's/80's. True, but at least we were still getting all of the classic Spider-Man villains and a small mix of new ones. Compared the the biggest piece of crap ever: THE CLONE SAGA, It's the lesser of 2 evils.

During The Clone Saga, Rhino, Mysterio, Chameleon, Doc Ock all got dumped in favor of Scrier, The Traveller and Kaine. Who the f*** are these guys?!? They even killed off Ock and tried to feed us another B-level Kraven. Spider-Man became way too mystic and supernatural. At least with OMD/BND, Marvel tried to bring back the old formula with one rule (as disgraceful as it was) that Peter had to be single.

I still hate OMD/BND but The Clone Saga was waaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse. It cause me to dump Spider-Man for the first time in my life.

 

[JewishHobbit]

No way! I LOVED the Clone Saga! There were rough parts but overall I thought it was a great read. The Peter is the Clone reveal sucked but it was fixed so no harm done. While there were a lot of new characters most of them were very interesting. And Kaine was great! He was MUCH better than Kraven in my opinion. Honestly, Kraven wasn't even interesting until he died.

Opinions are opinions anyhow, but I'd take Clone Saga ten times over before OMD/OMIT.

 

[Phaedrus45]

I was planning to ask about the worst runs or stories eventually. You have time to consider it

Yeah, we KNOW what you'll say is the worst, JH. OMD! Any story that makes you quit Spidey for a full two years has to be at the top of the list.

Worst for me will probably be The Other.


As for the best, I think I loved Spidey the most back in the mid-80's, when you had the Hobgoblin storyline and the introduction of new characters, like Cloak And Dagger. (These stories, though, were mixed between Peter Parker, The Spectacular Spider-Man and Amazing Spider-Man.) Plus, the relationship with Black Cat really took hold.

I did go back and try and read the first issues of Web Of Spider-Man, and they really weren't as good as I remembered, though. Comics really have gotten better.

Lately, though, I'd say Grim Hunt. It was just a fantastic story, bringing back old characters while introducing a few new ones. Plus, it had the Brubaker-Daredevil feel to it. Fantastic story.

 

[Phaedrus45]

I think all of the complaints I've heard about OMD/BND, the main one was that we were getting stuff that was done before in the 70's/80's. True, but at least we were still getting all of the classic Spider-Man villains and a small mix of new ones. Compared the the biggest piece of crap ever: THE CLONE SAGA, It's the lesser of 2 evils.

During The Clone Saga, Rhino, Mysterio, Chameleon, Doc Ock all got dumped in favor of Scrier, The Traveller and Kaine. Who the f*** are these guys?!? They even killed off Ock and tried to feed us another B-level Kraven. Spider-Man became way too mystic and supernatural. At least with OMD/BND, Marvel tried to bring back the old formula with one rule (as disgraceful as it was) that Peter had to be single.

I still hate OMD/BND but The Clone Saga was waaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse. It cause me to dump Spider-Man for the first time in my life.

I loved The Clone Saga, too. All those new characters were pretty interesting, and the saga was filled with so many twists and turns, all dependant on these old storylines from Spidey's past. Sadly, the recent mini didn't do it justice, and made the whole thing look like a real mess.

 

[runawayboulder]

The mini series wasn't supposed to do it any justice. The mini was to show the Clone Saga's (supposedly) planned ending before they had to change it due to it being UNIVERSALLY PANNED by critics and fans alike. Now it may be some of your earliest exposures to the character, making it near and dear to your heart (like 80's black costume/Hobgoblin was to me) but it was EPIC gar-bage.

Prior to the Clone Saga, ASM was selling over 500K issues each month. By the time the Clone Saga was ending it was barely 120K. I'd hate to admit it but OMD/BND didn't have that type of sales drops. It held steady if anything. Essays have been written about how much of a clusterf**k The Clone Saga was. Nothing written about like that about OMD/BND...... yet.

The Clone Saga took every key aspect of Spider-Man, his rogues gallery, supporting cast, ect and dumped it in the trash for a non stop fill of Seward Trainer and a female Doctor Octopus. BND had only 1 rule, no Peter/MJ. OMD was four issues, The Clone Saga was 2 friggin years. The Clone Saga was the perfect example of all that was wrong with 90's comics, from the Alpha/Omega book ends to the hologram chromium covers.

Of course, OMIT and The Other were crap too but the Clone Saga wins the Golden Plunger in my book.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

OK, worst Spidey era?

OMD/BND/OMIT Era
Well, since I think OMD is hands down the WORST Spidey story ever, I would say possibly one of the worst eras was the BND era. There may have been some enjoyable stories, but the whole removing of the marriage hung over everything. I mean, how creepy was it seeing MJ about to sleep with that actor? Most of the new villains and cast were horrible. Stories that others seemed to like, such as Gauntlet & Grim Hunt, I hated. And to top it off, just when Osborn became the big baddie of the Marvel U and Spidey should have had a bigger impact in Marvel, he became a bit more isolated in his own title to concentrate on setting up the new status quo. The whole thing created an unnecessary riff in the fan community. Thankfully, it looks like we're out of this era, courtesy of Slott.

Maximum Carnage
Hated this arc. Hated throwing in all these villains and heroes and making it senselessly violent. Not a good Spider-Man story.

Parents Return/I Am the Spider/Peter No More Era
Hated the idea Pete's parents were spies in the first place. Hated their return. Hated the whole "Dark Knight" copy cat era. It seemed with this era, I never really enjoyed Spider-Man as much as in previous eras (see my previous post on favorite eras).

Also, if they had kept the Pete we've known since 1975 a clone, Clone Saga would be there. The thing is, at the time, I couldn't wait week to week for the next installment. It was only the Pete is the clone reveal that angered me. But, since they reversed it, I'm ok with it. Plus, although a lot of people would complain, I was happy to see the return of Norman Osborn/Green Goblin, my all time favorite Spidey villain!

 

[runawayboulder]

The Clone Saga is the worst of the worst. It made me stop buying Spider-Man for the first time in 10+ yrs. OMD was Quesada bible garbage that was only solicited for 4 issues while the Clone Saga went on for 2 years. At least once OMD was done it made way for new blood writers and artists. Yeah, the status quo was f-ed up but as long as the stories were still halfway entertaining, I was still buying. OMIT was easy for me to forget because it was only a month long. 2 years of clones, clones and more clones......that was friggin brutal man.

 

[random_havoc]

One of the best runs for me was the first 100 or so issues of Ultimate Spider-Man.

The worst OMD, followed closely by Loeb's Ultimates work and his Ultimatum. All 3 of those things were travesties.