Age of Ultron The Black Widow Thread

[RedRose]

Anyway... What/who would y'all like to see if and when we get a BW solo?

I would like to see some women in the movie...Maria Hill? Other Widows? And Hawkeye. He can be her love interest

 

[cherokeesam]

whatever man
That's how you read it, good for you
It's not what I saw, hooray for me

The subtext I got was a mutual attraction, and possibly even a little bit of a crush by BW on Cap, but Cap acknowledging that while she is attractive physically and someone he can be friends with, she is most definitely not his type and they are too different to work as a couple, on top of the nearly brother and sister relationship they have going and Steve not wanting to change that, hence saying he wanted "a friend". And as for Nat, I think she just has too much respect for Cap to jeopardize their partnership. If you thought there was more in their little looks, that's like, your opinion man

I've had a similar situation myself, where there's been sexual tension with a platonic friend who was dating another friend of mine(think hawkeye) then when they were separated for a bit, things got even a bit more tense. There was plenty of flirting, her trying to set me up with her friends, and drunken "maybe we should just hook up"s. But because of how we felt about each other (like siblings), and the fact that I knew we were very different people who wouldn't work together in the long run, we decided not to do anything- despite the attraction- so as to not ruin the friendship or hurt her ex, who is still my friend and now her husband. Just because attraction exists doesn't mean a sexual relationship should or will.

that's the subtext I got out of it, but by all means, keep telling me how wrong my opinion is...

oh, and I've read Cyrano and seen Roxanne, don't get all *****ey, I grasp concepts just fine thanx

Ease up, bro. I'm not trying to ride your ass here; I like you, BoredGuy, and respect your opinion on this and lots of other matters. I'm just saying that in regards to any CapWidow potential, you're looking at the surface and taking everything on face value, while the beauty of what's going on with the seeds they're planting is entirely subtext. The conversations Cap and Widow have --- especially in the car after escaping Rumlow's mall manhunt, and again in the cemetery at the end of the movie --- are better viewed by what is *not* said than what *is* said. CATWS has damn good writers, damn good directors, and damn good actors, and Evans and Scarjo illustrate that with their visual, rather than verbal, dialogue. I just find the craftwork there fascinating, and always like to try to turn other people onto it.

Anyways, it's all good. *brofist*

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

Ease up, bro. I'm not trying to ride your ass here; I like you, BoredGuy, and respect your opinion on this and lots of other matters. I'm just saying that in regards to any CapWidow potential, you're looking at the surface and taking everything on face value, while the beauty of what's going on with the seeds they're planting is entirely subtext. The conversations Cap and Widow have --- especially in the car after escaping Rumlow's mall manhunt, and again in the cemetery at the end of the movie --- are better viewed by what is *not* said than what *is* said. CATWS has damn good writers, damn good directors, and damn good actors, and Evans and Scarjo illustrate that with their visual, rather than verbal, dialogue. I just find the craftwork there fascinating, and always like to try to turn other people onto it.

Anyways, it's all good. *brofist*

Well said bro. I agree with your post wholeheartedly

 

[Herolee10]

At the end of the day, when it comes to anyone who enjoys any pairing, I always remind them that these are only...

 

[Herolee10]

Also, it's funny on how some mentioned that Cap and Widow have either a "Working Husband and Wife" or a "Brother and Sister" relationship in "The Winter Soldier", since it reminded me of another pairing.

 

[BoredGuy]

Anyways, it's all good. *brofist*

No doubt man *pounds it*

 

[gildedmuse]

I think a part of Natasha is really envious of Steve. She looks at his blemish free life and wants him to have every happiness that she doesn't think she either can practically have or deserves.

When they are in the car together and Widow asks Rogers who he wants her to be in an obviously flirty way, that was clearly her offering to play whatever part Roger's needed not because of any relationship based desires but because at that moment Natasha felt like everything she'd done in life, all the redemption she'd worked for, was lost. She straight out tells him that SHIELD was her attempt to make up for her past and it turns out she was fooled, maybe even fooling herself.

In that moment the one point of light Natasha has, the one thing she knows is good and right, is Steve and so her basic instinct is to do what she did first with the Russian cause then later for SHIELD. She offers herself up; it's suppose to be a compliment, to say that I will literally be and do anything for you but at the same time Widow has this tone of voice that's sort of... distant. It's automatic, it's robotic, it's not really her but she doesn't know how to be her. So she's really trusting Rogers here, his answer is pretty much going to dictate who she is because right then she'd fallen back into her sort of "safety spy mode" where she changes allegiance and then whoever she's connected to, they change her.

So when Cap dismisses all that he's giving her permission, to me that was a very big moment for Widow. Because I think with Cap it's the first time she's meant anyone who has these morals that he believes in and this sense of right and, well, goodness and so to hear from him that she didn't need to play pretend...

To me it didn't read romantic. More like... Back in high school did you ever have a friend and you were such good friends with them but at the same time just figuring out, really, your own sexuality plus with all the peer pressure that you think maybe you're attracted to them, so you go through this awkward phrase where you're not sure if that is what romance feels like or if this is just a more grown up friendship? I feel like the car scene was this moment for Nat and Steve, and it works because Steve's so clean he seems to still have that sense of nativity (even if he doesn't) and Nat is trained she's probably unfamiliar with actual, mature relationships.

Through most of the movie it seems like Natasha is purposefully pointing Steve in other directions because she believes she would be bad for him and that, realistically, they wouldn't work but isn't sure Steve would be able to see "the truth" about her because he seems like the kind of good guy who could be so easily fooled. But then when Nat final makes an offer, says I could pretend to be the kind of woman you want/deserve (because right then she has no one else to follow, it's a bit of a break down for her - before she had SHIELD and was steady, now not so much) it's Steve who is mature enough to call her on it, he's pretty much saying that isn't how romance really works why not just be yourself since that's who I need right now.

Which in no way dismisses future romance between the two. Personally I'd prefer them as just friends, especially since it seems Steve might b the first real one she's had, and that's important... I think sometimes, especially in films, there is a real emphases put on romantic relationships as if our platonic friendships cannot be just as valuable, and that's a shame.

 

[cherokeesam]

Damn good read of that scene and the characters, gildedmuse.

I agree with you almost 100%. Widow is clearly offering herself sexually to Steve here, because that's probably the way it's *always* worked between her and men before. She can be anybody he wants her to be, from a ****e to a virgin to whatever else; and that's part of the nature of her job as a professional seductress. It comes with the territory.

And yeah, Steve absolutely calls her on it. Just about any other man would have gone for it, and yeah, the sex would have likely been amazing. But it would have also completely destroyed any hope of an actual relationship and connection of two hearts at the deepest level. It would have been a simple sexual fantasy fulfilled, and Steve would have then become just like every other guy Natasha has ever known.

So when Steve puts on the brakes and ostensibly friendzones her there, it's not what she was expecting, or what she's used to with guys. It doesn't mean he's closing the door, though, and they both damn well know it. But the expectation going forward is that their relationship will have to be built on honesty, not role-playing. And that's where Natasha is on shaky ground. Steve is a genuinely pure and noble heart, and she doesn't know if she has the heart to break his. Or to have hers opened to a man for real.

*That's* what makes Steve/Natasha an amazing love story. And I hope future writers realize and pursue that. They truly deserve each other.

 

[Three_Inches]

So when Cap dismisses all that he's giving her permission, to me that was a very big moment for Widow. Because I think with Cap it's the first time she's meant anyone who has these morals that he believes in and this sense of right and, well, goodness and so to hear from him that she didn't need to play pretend...

This is an excellent analysis. I think she dismissed Steve as naive when he said he was looking for a friend. But then after the reveal of HYDRA and Steve saving her life in the bombing, she realizes how he was completely genuine in everything that he said.

Which then prompts her to ask if he would trust her in the same position. She's so blown away and touched when he says yes that I think from that moment on she's completely dedicated to being as virtuous (in her own BW way) as Cap. Which gave her the strength to blow all of her covers for the greater good at the end of the movie.

 

[Herolee10]

I just realized that Thor is really the only male member of the original six that hasn't had a one-on-one scene with Natasha within the MCU as of yet.lol

 

[Three_Inches]

I just realized that Thor is really the only male member of the original six that hasn't had a one-on-one scene with Natasha within the MCU as of yet.lol

All in due time, my friend.

I like her relationship with Tony. How he's a little bitter about falling for her cover and is a little suspicious of her.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

All in due time, my friend.

I like her relationship with Tony. How he's a little bitter about falling for her cover and is a little suspicious of her.

I wish they had taken that all the way. It is like the chickened out, because they were afraid of making Nat unlikeable.

 

[Loki882]

She wouldn't be "unlikeable" anyway. She was doing her job and you were acting like an irresponsible *****e at the time Tony, so suck it up.

 

[eddy]

Do you think they'll ever make her a double/triple agent in these movies? Its the one thing I'm surprised they haven't done yet. They could've easily played that card in TWS but didn't.

 

[metaphysician]

No, because they aren't going to make the only major superheroine so far into a villain.

 

[harryoscop]

"I want one"
"No!"

 

[Three_Inches]

Can't imagine them going the double agent route. Triple agent maybe.

 

[CB Fan]

I was just watching TWS and thinking about the double agent route which in the end I don't see happening but like Three_Inches I wouldn't be suprised to see her play triple agent.

I wonder why they chose to go with giving the new suit the blue lighting instead of red which fits more in line with a black widow.

 

[BoredGuy]

yeah, BW's best look was in TWS, both hair and costume, IMO

sad that they're Tron-ing her outfit and goin back to the old lady 'do

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Widow's hair is awful in TWS. It looks like a very thin wig. But everything else works very well.

 

[PyroChamber]

It's interesting to see that as the movies have progressed, Natasha has had more of a personality shine through. IM2: strictly doing her job

Avengers: same, only now you see what happens when a confidante's life is on the line and an actually fear when confronting someone like the Hulk who's she's obviously heard about but never encountered.

TWS: As usual all business when it comes to the job, but now she's opened up a bit more with Steve. She jokes, she laughs and even smiles.

I'm interested in seeing where it goes in AOU, especially with talk of a possible relationship with Banner.

 

[BoredGuy]

Widow's hair is awful in TWS. It looks like a very thin wig. But everything else works very well.

ok yeah, now that you mention it, IM2 was my favorite hair for her
she looked super sexy with those curls, for some reason

 

[TalismanRing]

Her hair in Iron Man II is gorgeous but it looks truly impractical and at times unruly.

I found her hair in The Avengers rather dowdy and matronly. I'm sorry to see it's return in AOU.

While I disliked the look of her wig in TWS in early set photos I thought it the looked rather good on film, darker and less wig like. It moved very well in action scenes and of the various BW hairstyles the sleek look fit her character best.

 

[Just_Human]

I didnt like her hair in IM2, she looked like a 15 year old girl

Not credible as a master assassin/spy/femme fatale

 

[BoredGuy]

yeah but she was hot tho... gotta admit

and yeah, I didn't think her hair looked that bad in TWS outside of set pics and promo photos
moving, it looked just fine