Infinity War The Black Widow Thread

[Confusion]

I don't see what a romance would add to the Steve/Natasha relationship. What would be the point? They are good as friends with different world views who respect each other but don't always agree with each other and don't always have the same agenda. Lets keep it that way.

100% agree. I've said it before, I'll say it again, there is no reason to push characters into a romantic relationship, just to have a romantic relationship. BW & Cap have good chemistry as FRIENDS. I hope they keep it that way.

The Sharon Carter thing, that could have worked if it was done differently. But it wasn't & now I hope they drop it or explain it away quickly. They had their chance, they messed it up, let's move on.

These movies have enough going on, they don't need side romances.

 

[CB Fan]

The usual Sharon Carter Derangement Syndrome that's been festering in the Cap threads for YEARS now has infected this place.


I say...

Spoiler

KILL IT WITH FIRE.

It's the only way to be sure.

Lol, Lets Do this

 

[Capsfan]

Yes, she isn't close to Cap, and she isn't a spy. So maybe you misunderstand the logic.

So does this logic mean that women are interchangeable or what? Cap has Falcon and Bucky both close to him, but BW is somehow stealing other female's thunder?

Oh, but you're missing the point. People looooove Steve and Natasha together, so why separate them? It isn't like they can top their off the charts chemistry.

You said Steve is preventing Natasha from getting her own solo-movie. I explained why he isn't. So what's your point now?

Go to the actual Sharon Carter threads for both TWS and CW...

Dude, you are the one who has blown this thing out of proportion and begun off-top. We were discussing Black Widow. It just so happens that a part of hate she is getting comes from Sharon's fans. So what? Are we forbidden to talk about Natasha's connections with other characters and their fans? Or all the mentions of Sharon Carter regarding other characters are taboo now?

I don't see what a romance would add to the Steve/Natasha relationship. What would be the point?

What is the point of all MCU romances so far? None of them is important to the plot.

Not that I don't appreciate their friendship, but at the same time I'm not against a romance between them. Everyone wants their romantic partner to be their soulmate, best friend, etc. It's getting really strange and weird, when you have a much deeper bond with your friend than lover. Yes, it's life and something like that happens all the time, but it's just sad. This means that your romantic relationship is not good enough and it's not your right partner.

 

[Nathaniell]

I watched CW the other day. Damn...i enjoyed their quiet scenes but her scene when Cap and Bucky show up to take the quin jet had me still curious whose side she was really on and when she let them escape from the clutches of Black Panther...that was an interesting moment. I always on the back of mind knew she was playing both sides. For one...in her heart she would have been on Caps side from the start whereas in her mind she thought it would be better off to side with the others while at the same time gather intel to fish out the real threat. You know its a spy thing. Lol.

 

[ScarlettW]

I watched CW the other day. Damn...i enjoyed their quiet scenes but her scene when Cap and Bucky show up to take the quin jet had me still curious whose side she was really on and when she let them escape from the clutches of Black Panther...that was an interesting moment. I always on the back of mind knew she was playing both sides. For one...in her heart she would have been on Caps side from the start whereas in her mind she thought it would be better off to side with the others while at the same time gather intel to fish out the real threat. You know its a spy thing. Lol.

She just wanted to keep the Avengers together because they were a family to her.

 

[Nathaniell]

She just wanted to keep the Avengers together because they were a family to her.

Yeah that too. I feel the worse part for her was watching her friends being torn apart and turning against one another. Sucky but ya. She pretty much without neither side really knowing that she was neutral. Now with her helping hand in letting cap and bucky escape revealed and as Tony put it, shes a wanted fugitive.

I honestly can't wait to see how both Cap and BW will show up in IW. I am excited.

 

[ScarlettW]

Yeah that too. I feel the worse part for her was watching her friends being torn apart and turning against one another. Sucky but ya. She pretty much without neither side really knowing that she was neutral. Now with her helping hand in letting cap and bucky escape revealed and as Tony put it, shes a wanted fugitive.

I honestly can't wait to see how both Cap and BW will show up in IW. I am excited.

Me too, I love their friendship.

 

[Iceman]

Yep, looks like they are becoming better and better friends and did well to maintain that friendship despite being on opposite sides for most of CW.

 

[Nathaniell]

What i love most is their chemistry on and off screen. Its not my business to really know but geez these two should be together...irl. lols I guess its official...I ship Scarlett and Chris. Damn.

 

[Mr. Forest]

Yeah that too. I feel the worse part for her was watching her friends being torn apart and turning against one another. Sucky but ya. She pretty much without neither side really knowing that she was neutral. Now with her helping hand in letting cap and bucky escape revealed and as Tony put it, shes a wanted fugitive.

I honestly can't wait to see how both Cap and BW will show up in IW. I am excited.

I wish the following would have been left in the movie:

I think this was the moment, watching her friends being torn apart, is when Natasha fully sides with Steve. Maybe the Russos wanted her sudden change to be more shocking, but I really feel if this moment was left in the film it would have made the fight more impactful.

 

[Capsfan]

Natasha's motivation is clear in the movie, since she told it herself to Tony. She was afraid that somebody would get killed or hurt. And she wasn't wrong: see what happened with Rhodey.
She wasn't so much as siding with Cap as trying to end the battle ASAP. That's why she asked him: "You're not gonna stop?"

 

[Nathaniell]

I wish the following would have been left in the movie:

I think this was the moment, watching her friends being torn apart, is when Natasha fully sides with Steve. Maybe the Russos wanted her sudden change to be more shocking, but I really feel if this moment was left in the film it would have made the fight more impactful.

Now that you mentioned it, yeah that shot should have been in the movie.

Natasha's motivation is clear in the movie, since she told it herself to Tony. She was afraid that somebody would get killed or hurt. And she wasn't wrong: see what happened with Rhodey.
She wasn't so much as siding with Cap as trying to end the battle ASAP. That's why she asked him: "You're not gonna stop?"

All this makes me want to watch CW. There might be some things i didn't pick up on.

 

[Iceman]

I wish the following would have been left in the movie:

I think this was the moment, watching her friends being torn apart, is when Natasha fully sides with Steve. Maybe the Russos wanted her sudden change to be more shocking, but I really feel if this moment was left in the film it would have made the fight more impactful.

Yes agreed. That alone would have taken the whole airport scene up a notch.

 

[Nathaniell]

Maybe another reason they left it out was due to the amount of explosions....happening all at once. Perhaps there was just too much going on in that particular moment.

 

[Mr. Forest]

Natasha's motivation is clear in the movie, since she told it herself to Tony. She was afraid that somebody would get killed or hurt. And she wasn't wrong: see what happened with Rhodey.
She wasn't so much as siding with Cap as trying to end the battle ASAP. That's why she asked him: "You're not gonna stop?"

Oh, I absolutely agree that Natasha's motivation is clear. I just wish the moment was left in the movie to show the inner conflict within her, rather than her just saying it to Tony later on. Still, I was rooting for her when she chose to let Steve and Bucky escape while she slowed T'Challa down.

 

[Capsfan]

I think the Russos said that they deemed this scene superfluous and cut it, since they already had a scene with explosion where Natasha asked Tony: "Is this part of the plan?". And later she also noted: "This isn't gonna end well".
She was expecting something like the incident with Rhodey all along.

 

[Mr. Forest]

I think the Russos said that they deemed this scene superfluous and cut it, since they already had a scene with explosion where Natasha asked Tony: "Is this part of the plan?". And later she also noted: "This isn't gonna end well".
She was expecting something like the incident with Rhodey all along.

I fully understand their reasoning and I don't think the omission of the scene takes away from the overall story in anyway. It's just a little scene I would have liked kept in and probably preferred. Plus, I don't think it would fit the tone of the fight as it is presented now.

In the end, I think the Russos made the right decision because the scene isn't needed.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

So does this logic mean that women are interchangeable or what? Cap has Falcon and Bucky both close to him, but BW is somehow stealing other female's thunder?

Sam and Bucky have as big a place in Cap's history as Sharon does.

You said Steve is preventing Natasha from getting her own solo-movie. I explained why he isn't. So what's your point now?

My point was pretty clear.

People hype BW and Cap as the best duo ever. So would Marvel separate them up to put her in her own movie?

 

[Capsfan]

Do we only measure everything by the comics now?
Are you saying that MCU Cap can't have any close friendships with women, just because he didn't have one in the comics?
Women are not interchangeable. If Gunn is able to give decent roles to three female characters in the same movie, so could the Russos.

I've never heard anybody saying that Cap and BW is the best duo ever.
Sorry, still don't understand your point. How is it even relevant? Marvel will do what is the most suitable for the current situation. If they make BW film and Evans is unavailable, then they will obviously find a way to write him out. If they get him, then he will be in her movie. It should be obvious. I don't see a problem here.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Do we only measure everything by the comics now?

Dude, I think you resent there being a comic influence at all.

Are you saying that MCU Cap can't have any close friendships with women, just because he didn't have one in the comics?

That depends, is the relationship coming at the expense of one of the biggest relationships (platonic or otherwise) he has in the comic?

Women are not interchangeable. If Gunn is able to give decent roles to three female characters in the same movie, so could the Russos.

I've explained why so many times now.

I've never heard anybody saying that Cap and BW is the best duo ever.

LMAO okay. Suuuuure.

Sorry, still don't understand your point. How is it even relevant? Marvel will do what is the most suitable for the current situation. If they make BW film and Evans is unavailable, then they will obviously find a way to write him out. If they get him, then he will be in her movie. It should be obvious. I don't see a problem here.

My point exactly. Then it wouldn't be a solo.

 

[Capsfan]

Dude, I think you resent there being a comic influence at all.

No, I just see no point in going to extremes either way.

That depends, is the relationship coming at the expense of one of the biggest relationships (platonic or otherwise) he has in the comic?

We talked about it many times. In CW it's not only BW who stole Sharon's time. It's Tony, Rhodey, Wanda/Vision, BP, Spidey, Ant-Man.
The problem is not BW. The real problem is that the Russos aren't interested in Sharon. BW didn't prevent Wanda from getting decent screentime or her own arc.

I've explained why so many times now.

And I still disagree. Sorry.

My point exactly. Then it wouldn't be a solo.

Well, if you don't consider TWS, SM:Homecoming or Thor 3 being solo-movies, then sure. Just keep in mind that other people might disagree with you on that matter.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

No, I just see no point in going to extremes either way.

Allowing important relationship to carry over isn't an "extreme."

I'm not saying Sam should be an ex-pimp or that Bucky should be from Indiana. I'm saying if they wanted to give Cap a female lead that is a pragmatic SHIELD agent, why not the one he's had in the comic for fifty years?

We talked about it many times. In CW it's not only BW who stole Sharon's time. It's Tony, Rhodey, Wanda/Vision, BP, Spidey, Ant-Man.

Well, I didn't single BW out for CW.

The problem is not BW. The real problem is that the Russos aren't interested in Sharon.

M&M were interested. You know, the guys who actually work on the story.

 

[Capsfan]

Allowing important relationship to carry over isn't an "extreme."

I wasn't calling that being "extreme". But saying a character shouldn't have close relationships with two women simultaneously just because it wasn't like that in the comics, so the creators have to choose just one of them - that's what I called "extreme".

I'm not saying Sam should be an ex-pimp or that Bucky should be from Indiana. I'm saying if they wanted to give Cap a female lead that is a pragmatic SHIELD agent, why not the one he's had in the comic for fifty years?

Don't you really know the answer? Because BW has become a popular character after The Avengers. And because they liked this character more than Agent 13. Obviously.
I'm not saying it's right, but it's just a business reality.

Well, I didn't single BW out for CW.

Then, again, what's your point? Why did it once again become BW's fault?

M&M were interested. You know, the guys who actually work on the story.

Well. Directors and even cast sometimes work on the story as well.
I don't really know were they interested or not, but at any rate, they are not the directors, nor producers to decide such things.

And tbh, I'm losing the point of this discussion once again.

 

[Three_Inches]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pUko19d6kc


Can we talk about how bummed I am this didn't make it to film. I've been wanting to see these two fight and the Russo's would have done it perfectly.

 

[zephyrinthesky]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pUko19d6kc


Can we talk about how bummed I am this didn't make it to film. I've been wanting to see these two fight and the Russo's would have done it perfectly.

I'm gonna speculate that it was cut once Spider-Man was confirmed and Marvel decided they wanted to showcase their new golden boy. It sucks that the most conflicted person between the two sides was mostly cut out of the film's big set piece.


I'm curious to see if Sam, Wanda and the other fugitive Avengers harbor a lot of mistrust and resentment for Widow after she was partially responsible for putting them in jail.