Infinity War The Black Widow Thread

[AndrewGilkison]

Yeah, I agree. But...
There will be around 45-60 characters in this movie. It's not like there is no place for her here. Almost every single hero is returning.
If they give up on it completely, I won't blame them either. But I'm afraid they will repeat TWS and CW once again, i.e. reduce Sharon to a small role as LI-device and develop Steve's relationship with Nat once more instead. I love watching Steve/Nat friendship, but if Sharon is in the movie in any capacity at all, it really should have been her with Steve, not BW again. Even Mantis is on the poster, while they've never shown she's even capable of fighting to begin with.

It really shows that Natasha is the true right female partner to Steve, not someone else.

If you're afraid of Sharon having a small role then your fears are well founded. Because if she is in the movie at all then you can bet its going to be small. If she got a minimal role in two Captain America movies then I don't see why she would all of a sudden play a big role in Avengers Infinity War.

I mean, you got the Avengers, and Spider-Man, and Dr. Strange, and the Guardians of the Galaxy. All teaming up against Thanos. Something we've been building to since The Avengers in 2012. Sharon is just not going to be a priority (sorry Sharon fans).

 

[Capsfan]

If you're afraid of Sharon having a small role then your fears are well founded. Because if she is in the movie at all then you can bet its going to be small. If she got a minimal role in two Captain America movies then I don't see why she would all of a sudden play a big role in Avengers Infinity War.

I mean, you got the Avengers, and Spider-Man, and Dr. Strange, and the Guardians of the Galaxy. All teaming up against Thanos. Something we've been building to since The Avengers in 2012. Sharon is just not going to be a priority (sorry Sharon fans).

I'm not saying she should have a big role. But they are totally capable of giving her a role on par with Bucky and Sam - Cap's supporting characters. Make her be on the run with them - it's really not that hard. They still have an opportunity. Not just mention her as love-interest device. This is what I'm afraid of - their nonsensical half-measures.Better don't include her at all then.

 

[nickelette424]

I really don't think she should come close to have as large of a role in an Avengers movie than Sam or Bucky. If she was ever going to have a bigger presence, now is not the time for that. Civil War was. I honestly think I would be annoyed if she is in this movie and is on par with Sam and Bucky.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

I saw it too. How? They're still not seen the movie. All based on that rumor that she stole Sharon's personality in WS that began with Sharon Stans.
These people are idiots.

They what now?

No one ever said she took Sharon's personality. Just her role. Sharon isn't supposed to be smug and so on. Suppose it was the same person you claim wanted Cap to die.

Only complaints I've seen is that she's going to be undercover as Yelena Belova, meaning they're not going to be able to use her if a BW movie gets made.

 

[Capsfan]

They what now?

No one ever said she took Sharon's personality. Just her role. Sharon isn't supposed to be smug and so on. Suppose it was the same person you claim wanted Cap to die.

Only complaints I've seen is that she's going to be undercover as Yelena Belova, meaning they're not going to be able to use her if a BW movie gets made.

Oh, really?
Just a couple of examples.

@THEBLACKWlDOW
WE ARE NOT DOING THIS, WAS GIVING NATASHA SHARON'S CHARACTERIZATION NOT ENOUGH THAT NOW THEY HAVE TO BRING YELENA INTO THIS MESS ???

@sputnik_13
Black widow has her own comic book runs so why did the russos have to give sharon's characterization to her? I need answer lol

@KAR0LINADEAN
mcu nat is stealing all the blondes identities , first sharon and now yelena

@expectopotronus
first Natasha gets Sharon Carter's personality and storyline in WS, and now in IW she's morphing into Yelena Belova...... ????

@Igbtxmen
who the **** is this? sharon carter? yelena belova? they rlly do NOT know how to write nat and scarjo's awful acting ugh

@sharoncarterss
"you can copy my homework but dont make it obvious"
"okay gotchu fam"

@antireylo
natasha romanoff has been found dead and has been replaced by sharon carter and yelena belova

@artingkrusca
They rlly doneit... the final step of natasha romanoff becoming sharon carter

@jeansgrey
what happened to sharon carter are they gonna mention her in infinity war or they gonna pretend she never existed since natasha is her now

@askywalkers
i hate the russos they gave everything of sharon's to natasha and peggy IMAHINE GIVING SHARON CARTER BARELY A CRUMB IN A CAP AMERICA MOVIE

 

[BullMcGiveny]

So, only three of those claim they gave Sharon's personality to Natasha. Three.

Which is wrong, because Natasha's personality in TWS isn't really Sharon's personality, or comic Natasha's, or even Avengers Natasha's. Yet one of those three one chose THEBLACKWIDOW as their twitter handle. I bet she's a big ol' Sharon "stan".

 

[Capsfan]

Dude, really? Are you really gonna nitpick now and count? I can't bring the whole twitter here and I don't want to go through all this hate once again.
The point is that Natasha is getting a massive hate over such a little detail as the color of her hair.

Not to mention that all these 'they gave everything of Sharon to Nat', 'they gave Sharon's identity to Nat', 'Nat becomes Sharon' imply personality as well. Not just the role.
So it's really all of them and much more out there. Basically all of the Sharon Carter defense squad.
And not only them. Others complain about Nat's poor development and so on. That's crazy. In fact, the Russos are the best in BW's characterization. I don't know what are they thinking, if they even try to think at all.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Well you talk like twitter is overrun with claims that she took Sharon's personality, but you're really reaching to back it up.

Like, none of that is hate directed at Natasha. There's criticism directed at the Russos, and there's some fairly tame ribbing on Natasha, who many see as having taken Sharon's role as Steve's partner, now becoming a blonde. Arguably the worst of it is about Yelena Belova.

If that's your idea of "massive hate", you have no idea how easy you've got it.

Others complain about Nat's poor development and so on. That's crazy. In fact, the Russos are the best in BW's characterization.

Just a thought, but since the direction they've taken the character is that she is his closest friend/life partner, that doesn't really bode well for any solo adventures for her, does it?

 

[Capsfan]

Well you talk like twitter is overrun with claims that she took Sharon's personality, but you're really reaching to back it up.

More like you are really stretching to debunk them.
Just because some of them don't use the exact word "personality" doesn't mean they don't imply it.
Notice how no one complains that Sharon was replaced with Wanda, even though in promo-art for Civil War it was Sharon with team Cap, not SW. Which might mean Wanda took her role as well.

Like, none of that is hate directed at Natasha. There's criticism directed at the Russos, and there's some fairly tame ribbing on Natasha, who many see as having taken Sharon's role as Steve's partner, now becoming a blonde. Arguably the worst of it is about Yelena Belova.

Oh, yes, sure. Just because none of them explicitly said "I hate Natasha" - there is no hate, of course. Just the same as Peggy isn't getting any hate, they just say "these bones must stay dead."
So is this really an argument about terms? The Russos are the ones who create Natasha's character in their movies. If haters hate Natasha's characterization, then it's a hate directed towards this character a priori. Because BW is not a real person. And hate is hate. It's not a reasonable criticism to say Natasha's only development is her hair color.
And oh, yes, Scarlett gets hate as well, as you can see.

Just a thought, but since the direction they've taken the character is that she is his closest friend/life partner, that doesn't really bode well for any solo adventures for her, does it?

Why?
I think the problem is that Scarlett isn't interested to do it herself at this point.

 

[ScarlettW]

They what now?

No one ever said she took Sharon's personality. Just her role. Sharon isn't supposed to be smug and so on. Suppose it was the same person you claim wanted Cap to die.

Only complaints I've seen is that she's going to be undercover as Yelena Belova, meaning they're not going to be able to use her if a BW movie gets made.

It's not just one person but many on tumblr and twitter talking about it. Nat blonde doesn't mean that Yelena cannot appear on the MCU! Yelena is not the only blackwidow who can be blonde.

This hatred is Sharon stans fault who insist that Nat stole Sharon's character in TWS. This has put the perception in the minds of others that Nat will play Yelena as well.

 

[Relugus]

More like you are really stretching to debunk them.
Just because some of them don't use the exact word "personality" doesn't mean they don't imply it.
Notice how no one complains that Sharon was replaced with Wanda, even though in promo-art for Civil War it was Sharon with team Cap, not SW. Which might mean Wanda took her role as well.

The reason Wanda was not in those early promo arts was more likely because lolke Perlmutter's policies toward Fox.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

More like you are really stretching to debunk them.
Just because some of them don't use the exact word "personality" doesn't mean they don't imply it.

So as I said, stretching.

Notice how no one complains that Sharon was replaced with Wanda, even though in promo-art for Civil War it was Sharon with team Cap, not SW. Which might mean Wanda took her role as well.

Because Civil War on the whole is an Avengers movie. SW's screentime prevented a bigger role for Sharon, but so did Clint, Black Panther, etc. Same goes for other characters, even Steve's screentime suffers from it being an Avengers movie.

Oh, yes, sure. Just because none of them explicitly said "I hate Natasha" - there is no hate, of course. Just the same as Peggy isn't getting any hate, they just say "these bones must stay dead."

What's Peggy got to do with anything?

So is this really an argument about terms? The Russos are the ones who create Natasha's character in their movies. If haters hate Natasha's characterization, then it's a hate directed towards this character a priori.

So nothing bad should ever be said? No criticism allowed?

Why?
I think the problem is that Scarlett isn't interested to do it herself at this point.

Since Natasha and Steve are such good friends, and wherever Cap goes, Natasha goes, how could Natasha be on her own for a solo?

 

[Capsfan]

The reason Wanda was not in those early promo arts was more likely because lolke Perlmutter's policies toward Fox.

Can you elaborate on that? What's the deal between Perlmutter's and Fox?
I thought Maximoff's merch rights belong to Marvel.

So as I said, stretching.

On your part, yes.

Because Civil War on the whole is an Avengers movie. SW's screentime prevented a bigger role for Sharon, but so did Clint, Black Panther, etc. Same goes for other characters, even Steve's screentime suffers from it being an Avengers movie.

These people don't like to use their brains when it comes to Sharon, so I doubt they understand this logic.
It was only Wanda, who seemingly took Sharon's role on team Cap.
Also, Clint, Ant-Man, SM were basically cameos and BP was important to the story. So the only clearly superfluous part was Wanda/Vision arc. Instead of developing their love story the Russos obviously could have given that screentime to Sharon/Steve.

What's Peggy got to do with anything?

Peggy is just another example how these people try to pretend they don't hate other female characters, but do it poorly.

So nothing bad should ever be said? No criticism allowed?

There is a big difference between valid criticism and a blind hate. Saying 'I don't like Nat's characterization in the Russos' films due to a), b), c)' - is a criticism. But saying 'Nat is stealing all the blondes identities' or 'the hair color is her only development' - is an irrational hate.

Since Natasha and Steve are such good friends, and wherever Cap goes, Natasha goes, how could Natasha be on her own for a solo?

Em, no. The only Cap's friend who follows him everywhere is Falcon. Nat was doing her own business after TWS, was ready to run off with Bruce in AoU and chose team Tony in CW. I don't see a problem here. You are stretching once again. It's definitely not Cap who prevents Natasha from having her own solo movie.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

On your part, yes.

Stretch what? a couple of your examples claim she took Sharon's personality. The others are more about Yelena. You think Yelena (a BW character) fans are somehow all Sharon fans? Some of those twitter feeds hardly mention Sharon aside from those tweets.

Peggy is just another example how these people try to pretend they don't hate other female characters, but do it poorly.

And here you are, badmouthing Sharon fans, asking why aren't they complaining about Wanda.

There is a big difference between valid criticism and a blind hate. Saying 'I don't like Nat's characterization in the Russos' films due to a), b), c)' - is a criticism. But saying 'Nat is stealing all the blondes identities' or 'the hair color is her only development' - is an irrational hate.

You know twitter has a 140 character limit right?

Em, no. The only Cap's friend who follows him everywhere is Falcon. Nat was doing her own business after TWS, was ready to run off with Bruce in AoU and chose team Tony in CW. I don't see a problem here. You are stretching once again. It's definitely not Cap who prevents Natasha from having her own solo movie.

Dude, the Russos gave Natasha a big role in TWS and built her up as Steve's close friend. If Cap4 were to happen, she'd be there once again.

So why would it be different the other way around? If a BW movie were to be conceived, people would ask 'Where is Steve?' 'Why wouldn't she ask for his help?'.

 

[Capsfan]

Stretch what? a couple of your examples claim she took Sharon's personality. The others are more about Yelena. You think Yelena (a BW character) fans are somehow all Sharon fans? Some of those twitter feeds hardly mention Sharon aside from those tweets.

I was responding to your:

They what now?

No one ever said she took Sharon's personality. Just her role. Sharon isn't supposed to be smug and so on. Suppose it was the same person you claim wanted Cap to die.

Only complaints I've seen is that she's going to be undercover as Yelena Belova, meaning they're not going to be able to use her if a BW movie gets made.

If you seriously want to claim that pearls like 'nat is stealing all the blondes identities', 'who the **** is this? sharon carter? yelena belova? they rlly do NOT know how to write nat and scarjo's awful acting ugh', 'natasha romanoff becoming sharon carter', '...since natasha is her now' or 'they gave everything of sharon's to natasha' are not implying that Natasha took Sharon's personality, then there is no point to continue this discussion really.

And here you are, badmouthing Sharon fans, asking why aren't they complaining about Wanda.

I only badmouth those who are crazy like these people, who are claiming Natasha stole Sharon's id, because she's blonde now. They are acting like Sharon and Belova have some kind of a monopoly on being blonde. They haven't even seen the movie. I've never said that all Sharon's fans are like them.

If they are complaining about BW stealing Sharon's role, then yes, they should at least follow their own logic and complain about Wanda doing the same as well. But no, of course not, because of double standards they use all the time. Wanda doesn't have a close relationship with Steve, so they don't hate her as BW for it.

You know twitter has a 140 character limit right?

How is it relevant to my point? You could say "I don't like BW's development", but these mocking ridiculous claims are definitely hatred, because they just make no sense. Like it or not, it's idiotic and offensive to say BW's only development is her hair. Or that she is stealing someone's id. She is literally the most developed female character in the MCU (of course I'm not talking about TV-shows for the obvious reasons).
Heck, they even admit they hate the Russos for their BW's portrayal.

Dude, the Russos gave Natasha a big role in TWS and built her up as Steve's close friend. If Cap4 were to happen, she'd be there once again.

So why would it be different the other way around? If a BW movie were to be conceived, people would ask 'Where is Steve?' 'Why wouldn't she ask for his help?'.

It would be the filmmakers' task to explain why Steve isn't in her solo-movie, not mine. What's so hard about it? They explained well why she wasn't team Cap in CW. They explained, why she went on the run on her own in the end of TWS.
It's not so mandatory as you are trying it to make.
Besides, Evans is open to continue. I doubt he would be against a cameo or small supporting role in BW's movie. Make them be separated for some reason - it's not that hard. Maybe Natasha wants to explore her past and doesn't want to entangle Steve in it. Various reasons.

 

[Herolee10]

I will say this much, the only thing that I regret is that the Russos didn't take a chance by having Steve and Natasha get romantically involved with each other. Their pairing just makes a lot more sense, especially when compared to the Bruce/Black Widow ship.

Sharon is just an uninteresting character and there's just too many cons on following up with that given her lineage. Seeing as how Infinity War may be the swan song for either Steve or Nat (or both), I would have enjoyed it if they had one great modern day romance and that it would have been with each other.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

If they are complaining about BW stealing Sharon's role, then yes, they should at least follow their own logic and complain about Wanda doing the same as well. But no, of course not, because of double standards they use all the time. Wanda doesn't have a close relationship with Steve, so they don't hate her as BW for it.

Yes, she isn't close to Cap, and she isn't a spy. So maybe you misunderstand the logic.

It would be the filmmakers' task to explain why Steve isn't in her solo-movie, not mine. What's so hard about it? They explained well why she wasn't team Cap in CW. They explained, why she went on the run on her own in the end of TWS.

Oh, but you're missing the point. People looooove Steve and Natasha together, so why separate them? It isn't like they can top their off the charts chemistry.

 

[Nathaniell]

I will say this much, the only thing that I regret is that the Russos didn't take a chance by having Steve and Natasha get romantically involved with each other. Their pairing just makes a lot more sense, especially when compared to the Bruce/Black Widow ship.

Sharon is just an uninteresting character and there's just too many cons on following up with that given her lineage. Seeing as how Infinity War may be the swan song for either Steve or Nat (or both), I would have enjoyed it if they had one great modern day romance and that it would have been with each other.

I'd...I'd be ok with some Rognoff romance...lol. kinda funny that nickname.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

I don't see what a romance would add to the Steve/Natasha relationship. What would be the point? They are good as friends with different world views who respect each other but don't always agree with each other and don't always have the same agenda. Lets keep it that way.

 

[CB Fan]

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

The usual Sharon Carter Derangement Syndrome that's been festering in the Cap threads for YEARS now has infected this place.


I say...

Spoiler

KILL IT WITH FIRE.

It's the only way to be sure.

 

[Xeno]

The usual Sharon Carter Derangement Syndrome that's been festering in the Cap threads for YEARS now has infected this place.


I say...

Spoiler

KILL IT WITH FIRE.

It's the only way to be sure.

It really is weird to come into a thread dedicated to one character, only to find most of the discussion focused on another, isn't it?

 

[Nathaniell]

It really is weird to come into a thread dedicated to one character, only to find most of the discussion focused on another, isn't it?

Yeah...after all, this is a thread discussion about Black Widow right?


So weird. Lol

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Yeah...after all, this is a thread discussion about Black Widow right?


So weird. Lol

Go to the actual Sharon Carter threads for both TWS and CW. You'll see there is some sort of controversy about Sharon Carter as played by Emily VanCamp that apparently only a handful of Hypesters know or care enough about to have regular arguments about going back to 2014.

Think about that... A near three year argument... ABOUT SHARON ****ING CARTER. And at this point I am betting that both sides have no clue as exactly what started the discussion that escalated into a currently constant back and forth, which now encompasses judgments about the character and veracity of VanCamp, the Russo Bros., Chris Evans, Kevin Feige and I am sure at some point Stan Lee and the ghost of Mark Grunewald.

 

[Nathaniell]

Go to the actual Sharon Carter threads for both TWS and CW. You'll see there is some sort of controversy about Sharon Carter as played by Emily VanCamp that apparently only a handful of Hypesters know or care enough about to have regular arguments about going back to 2014.

Think about that... A near three year argument... ABOUT SHARON ****ING CARTER. And at this point I am betting that both sides have no clue as exactly what started the discussion that escalated into a currently constant back and forth, which now encompasses judgments about the character and veracity of VanCamp, the Russo Bros., Chris Evans, Kevin Feige and I am sure at some point Stan Lee and the ghost of Mark Grunewald.

Oh I am aware. I've been a lurker for some time before I registered. It has been a while since I've visited TWS forum.

Me...I'd rather not get involve that will lead to an endless argument back and forth cause really, wheres the fun in that? Its why I prefer to not post in heated discussions when thetes nothing else to add that have been discussed over and over. Its like rinse...repeat...rinse...repeat. then it dies off and next you know it starts up again. Ugh not this again...lol.

I really like the Steve/Natasha "very good friends" dynamic and I enjoy where their status is at especially in CW. Wherever it goes, i'll keep an open mind.