The Bush Thread

[The Overlord]

When those laws are voted in as States laws.

The Federal Amendment to the Constitution is only accepted by Federalists because it is a necessary evil. The states have spoken by voting to ban gay marriage over and over. That should be the end of the issue. The states have spoken. Sadly, there is always some activist judge willing to trample the rights of the states in the name of "equality" or "civil rights" even though gay marriage is neither an issue of equality or civil rights.

Since these judges would happily trample states rights, the necessar evil of a Federal amendment is needed to stifle these activist judges and allow the states decisions to stand without intrusion by activists.

So if a state passed a law nationalizing the oil industry there, it wouldn't be big government?

 

[StorminNorman]

Why do you think we are frustrated, in fear, "confused" and have "misconception" of war? You'll have to dig deeper then that. You're spouting opinion, not rationale.

Of course I am spouting opinion, I can't speak for every single person supporting the PROSECUTE BUSH! movement - what I can do is speak for my opinion of the people I have met (and being a college student active in politics that is quite a lot) and must of them have no idea what they are talking about.

Most of the world consists of the American left and its youth?

I was speaking about the domestic cries, but yes - most of Europe is more liberal than America. I, quite frankly, don't give a damn about what the rest of the world thinks about Bush.

Why don't you think Bush or the people who tortured "suspected" terrorists are war criminals?

I think those at Abu Ghraib are war criminals - but I have no problems, ethically, with torturing terrorist suspects for crucial information for the safety of this country. That is not to say I don't have some questions about about the EFFECTIVENESS.

That's funny. It wasn't the left who relied on fear to undermine the country's citizens rights to privacy or the fact Bush gave himself the power to arrest anyone he wanted with no evidence and to lock them away without a trial. There's much more then that, of course.

This isn't a true review of the situation, however.

And yet you can't convince the left or the rest of the world it isn't. That's what the Republican campaign's against the Clinton's has come down to with perception in the public arena. Give us something that sticks to Clinton he can't back away from that's legit the same way Bush does with torture and you'll convince us.

You can't convince the left or the rest of the world because they don't want to see it. I have never argued perception, I have argued reality. And I just gave you a detailed list of Clinton's past discretions.

 

[Addendum]

Funny how judges are "activist" when they rule in a way that a particular group disagrees with

 

[Nitehawk013]

YOu mean when they ignore what the vast majority voted for.

 

[Addendum]

The Supreme Court isn't beholden by the majority opinion of the public.

 

[The Overlord]

YOu mean when they ignore what the vast majority voted for.

So waht, at one point the majority of people supported slavery, does that make it democratic? There has to be rules in palce to prevent a tyranny of the majority, because that's not democracy, its mob rule.

 

[StorminNorman]

What the whole executing the ******ed guy thing?

Completely irrelevant.

Okay first I never said Bush as stupid at everything, that would be silly, I called him an incompetent leader and when I said leader, I meant President.

Maybe he was a good governor I don't give a crap. I don't think he was competent as President.

Clinton was a Rhodes scholar and actually made his money, say what you will about Clinton, he wasn't stupid, Bush was.

The defense rests, your honor.

Again you can't say its a fact that Clinton is solely responsible for the economic crisis, that's not fact. That's just your theory, which I don't buy frankly.

Are saying Bush bares no responsibility for the economic crisis?

Did I say that? No. Bush bares some of responsibility, but he should not be held solely responsible or even mostly responsible0.

Those are interconnected though, the point is for the war to have been a success it would have had meet all the promises it was based on, finding WMDs, all fighting ending in 6 months, the war paying for itself

Again, A's and B's.

That was a typo, I mean thick. When I said that "broken clock is right twice a day" I meant

Please, if your ego in yourself and your opinions and your opinions was any bigger,it be visible from space.

From Space? FROM SPACE?! Awesome.

You didn't answer my question when will history judge Bush, a thousand years from now? Its a false argument its based on something that may or not happen in the future and there is no way to tell if it or won't happen. Its a completely useless point. Its make me saying that in 30 years , people will say Obama will be know as the greatest President ever. Can I prove or disporve that now, of course not.

A thousand years from now? No. But it would take a generation - as it has with any other President.

Its a useless argument, because right now, you can't test it, so I don't give a crap.

Normally when you can't test a situation you look at similar cases, look at their results and then make an educated hypothesis from that. Thats what I have done.

 

[Marx]

The defense rests, your honor.

 

[The Overlord]

Completely irrelevant.





The defense rests, your honor..

Ok, I will admit that was too much of blunt assessment and a mistake. Happy?

But I still contend he was an incompetent Presdient.

Did I say that? No. Bush bares some of responsibility, but he should not be held solely responsible or even mostly responsible0. ..

I still don't your theory that Cliton deserves the lion share of the blame. Conservatives blame Clinton too much for things that went wrong under Bush's watch, its like crying wolf.

Besides even if it were true, the GOP controlled all 3 levels of government from 2002-2004, why didn't just overturn those laws?

Again, A's and B's...

But the people who oppose thee war in the first place were far more worried about B then A.

:A thousand years from now? No. But it would take a generation - as it has with any other President.



Normally when you can't test a situation you look at similar cases, look at their results and then make an educated hypothesis from that. Thats what I have done.

Those past examples are irrelevant because they weren't during the information age, that's what you are missing here.

 

[StorminNorman]

Ok, I will admit that was too much of blunt assessment and a mistake. Happy?

But I still contend he was an incompetent Presdient.

I never argued the the competency of Bush. Obviously I think he was a somewhat competent (but not a great or even good) President, but I can understand how some are rather displeased with him.

Besides even if it were true, the GOP controlled all 3 levels of government from 2002-2004, why didn't just overturn those laws?

I never claimed neither Bush nor the GOP were blameless.

But the people who oppose thee war in the first place were far more worried about B then A.

And, again, the fears of the people that opposed the war are irrelevant to this topic. The fact is that the battle plan to overthrow Saddam's government was brilliantly planned and executed.

Those past examples are irrelevant because they weren't during the information age, that's what you are missing here.

Fine then, if the "information age" makes the past examples irrelevant than we will simply have to wait and see. To assume, however, that the information age means Bush's reputation will never improve is a strange and incorrect assumption since we have no idea how much the "information age" will impact historian's view on Bush at all.

 

[Johann Schmidtt]

I'm glad that Bush is finally out of the White House. I think Obama will make a good American President.

 

[Red Mask]

Um, the President's job is not to micro manage every detail of every program going on in America. UPkeep on Walter Reed, I am willing to bet, does not fall under the responsibilities of the White House and the office of the President. Like many of the posters "sins" he wants to lay at Bush's feet, they are not issues he was elected to deal with.

I didn't say it was an issue he should have dealt with personally. But the fact that it happened with the all the military spending and the cut in soldiers' benefits does display poor leadership and oversight. During Clinton's time there was a scandal that revealed how many military doctors never passed their final exams to earn their medical degrees. That's serious malpractice at the expense of the soldiers' welfare. But America was not in at war then. Years later Bush is president, and he sends thousands of troops overseas to Afghanistan and Iraq. The military should have improved then, but it didn't. Billions more were spent on the military and it couldn't care for its people during war? That's bad alright. Even if it's not the president's elected responsibility, he's obviously didn't have the right staff who do handle them.

 

[Red Mask]

I'm glad that Bush is finally out of the White House. I think Obama will make a good American President.

I think he will make a better president. How good is will be is still up to the future.

 

[Addendum]

I didn't say it was an issue he should have dealt with personally. But the fact that it happened with the all the military spending and the cut in soldiers' benefits does display poor leadership and oversight. During Clinton's time there was a scandal that revealed how many military doctors never passed their final exams to earn their medical degrees. That's serious malpractice at the expense of the soldiers' welfare. But America was not in at war then. Years later Bush is president, and he sends thousands of troops overseas to Afghanistan and Iraq. The military should have improved then, but it didn't. Billions more were spent on the military and it couldn't care for its people during war? That's bad alright. Even if it's not the president's elected responsibility, he's obviously didn't have the right staff who do handle them.

Guess Bush's motto for his presidency was "The buck stops with Clinton"

 

[Red Mask]

Agreed.

Thank you.

 

[Oddzball]

Zogby did a poll shortly after the 2006 election. Only 30 % or so supported impeachment.

Zogby tends to skew towards the right. How was the question worded?

 

[Kelly]

Actually I've found Zogby over the years to be very good. I worked for a research company out of Dallas while in college. They were very well respectd within the higher ups of this company.

No matter who the poll is, you should look at how the question is worded.


This was of course 2006....if you look at polls in 2007, you see that 45% to alittle more than half favored impeachment, more specifically for wiretapping in some polls.


As far as a poll that skews conservative, maybe Pew.

 

[ANTOINE X]

Bush should be put in gail.The guy lied about the war in Irak, many soldier died for the bastard. His presidency was to put his friends (All his oil company ceo) richer than ever. Onthe other hand we have to pay higher price for Gaz.

 

[SuBe]

Bush should be put in gail.The guy lied about the war in Irak, many soldier died for the bastard. His presidency was to put his friends (All his oil company ceo) richer than ever. Onthe other hand we have to pay higher price for Gaz.

 

[ANTOINE X]

What? you think he s done? I m sure Sombody is gonna put him into court shortly.

 

[Kelly]

Bush should be put in gail.The guy lied about the war in Irak, many soldier died for the bastard. His presidency was to put his friends (All his oil company ceo) richer than ever. Onthe other hand we have to pay higher price for Gaz.

Wow....

 

[SuBe]

What? you think he s done? I m sure Sombody is gonna put him into court shortly.

Where you from?

 

[Kelly]

Oh lord, I could so run with that SuBe.....but it wouldn't be very modderly of me....

 

[Marx]

Where you from?

Not grammar-land.

 

[Kelly]

*sighs* you went there.....well, at least I didn't have to.


Of course who am I to say anything..............................................*smiles*