BvS The BvS Rumor/Speculation Discussion Thread! - Part 1

[KRYPTON INC.]

Who knows how the set pics of the flooded areas with the S on the roofs plays into things? That said I could see that going into a multitude of directions. Say Superman tries to do his thing but does find resistance to him just trying to lend a hand. Perhaps there is a fear at first. But think about it... You are in some country with a bad general infrastructure, possibly a really inept and corrupt government. Your town/city got itself a natural disaster of some kind and you are stuck on your roof for days. No food. No drinkable water. Your mother is running low on the medication she must take regularly. Your wife and children are fading fast. You know of this "Superman" and his connection to the recent alien attack. You hear conflicting opinions, or perhaps have an unflattering one yourself of him. But... You can't just watch as your family dies, can you? Time for a Hail Mary pass... Find some way to mark your roof and maybe, just maybe he'll see it... Maybe he will help?

Say this works... Well now Superman might have himself a problem. Sure, those first few rescues will garner support and help lots out but what happens when he can't come? Hope can turn sour so fast when one doesn't get the salvation from on high that was expected. What happens when he arrives and it's a situation that can't be solved by super strength and heat vision? When it's a separatist group that wants Superman to turn the tide in a vicious civil war against a brutal dictator? What happens when he arrives and it's a young child that wants Superman to "stop daddy from hitting mommy"? This gets tricky real fast in my estimation for our hero. My two cents.

 

[Herolee10]

Who knows how the set pics of the flooded areas with the S on the roofs plays into things? That said I could see that going into a multitude of directions. Say Superman tries to do his thing but does find resistance to him just trying to lend a hand. Perhaps there is a fear at first. But think about it... You are in some country with a bad general infrastructure, possibly a really inept and corrupt government. Your town/city got itself a natural disaster of some kind and you are stuck on your roof for days. No food. No drinkable water. Your mother is running low on the medication she must take regularly. Your wife and children are fading fast. You know of this "Superman" and his connection to the recent alien attack. You hear conflicting opinions, or perhaps have an unflattering one yourself of him. But... You can't just watch as your family dies, can you? Time for a Hail Mary pass... Find some way to mark your roof and maybe, just maybe he'll see it... Maybe he will help?

Say this works... Well now Superman might have himself a problem. Sure, those first few rescues will garner support and help lots out but what happens when he can't come? Hope can turn sour so fast when one doesn't get the salvation from on high that was expected. What happens when he arrives and it's a situation that can't be solved by super strength and heat vision? When it's a separatist group that wants Superman to turn the tide in a vicious civil war against a brutal dictator? What happens when he arrives and it's a young child that wants Superman to "stop daddy from hitting mommy"? This gets tricky real fast in my estimation for our hero. My two cents.

I actually wonder if Snyder and Warner Bros would have the courage to approach tough issues like those.

And just to add to that list (which I like btw and would love to see happen on the big screen if done right), I wouldn't mind getting a moment where Superman feels tempted to finish off a villain due to that said villain having murdered so many innocent civilians in cold blood earlier on. It would just be like that scene where Superman had to held himself back from finishing off Atomic Skull in "Superman vs the Elite" in the first act of the film due to how many civilians Atomic Skull had killed off a few minutes ago.

Also, another scene from the film that I would love to see is having some surrounding civilians actually pressuring Superman to take the life of an criminal that he apprehends; even using the Zod incident as an excuse to further pressure him into killing off that villain.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I actually wonder if Snyder and Warner Bros would have the courage to approach tough issues like those.

And just to add to that list (which I like btw and would love to see happen on the big screen if done right), I wouldn't mind getting a moment where Superman feels tempted to finish off a villain due to that said villain having murdered so many innocent civilians in cold blood earlier on. It would just be like that scene where Superman had to held himself back from finishing off Atomic Skull in "Superman vs the Elite" in the first act of the film due to how many civilians Atomic Skull had killed off a few minutes ago.

Also, another scene from the film that I would love to see is having some surrounding civilians actually pressuring Superman to take the life of an criminal that he apprehends; even using the Zod incident as an excuse to further pressure him into killing off that villain.

Yes, lee... Exactly! These are things that can be done and done well I think. I even feel what I put in bold can play into Luthor's arc and character. Most of us assume Lex as "the villain of the piece" to be that way from the start. But let's remember that there is a history in the Superman mythos of Luthor and Superman often starting as friends, whether that's SMALLVILLE or the Silver Age. Say they go that track... Lex Luthor is a genius the likes of which is rarely seen in the world, and it's not a genius limited to technical skill or mere accumulation of academic knowledge. It's a genius of cross disciplines and even arts, the humanities, history, philosophy, psychology ect. along with the sciences like genetics, theoretical physics, cutting edge engineering and computer sciences. He's been this way since a child. He's found his natural talents gratifying and profitable, becoming a billionaire the moment he first applied his genius to the world of business and industry. But... he's lonely. And frustrated. He sees a world that to him is being run completely wrong. A world where a genius like himself has to put up with those whose mental capacities as he sees it, are inferior to him. Where what needs to be done, so obvious to Luthor on a host of issues, is always thwarted, by either ignorance or misplaced morality.

Now, imagine this person in a world where Zod's invasion happens. Suddenly the world knows that alien life, and advanced cultures are a fact. How does a person like him react? How does he react to learning the full story of how Superman and the military defeated Zod? Most are assuming that Lex is anti-Supes from the giddyup. But what if he isn't? What if he thinks to himself, "Well, here is a man like myself. He saw what had to be done and did it without hesitation. Some are afraid of this guy, but not me. I think we are two of a kind. Yes, if we were to work together to improve the world, there is nothing we couldn't do. We could revolutionize life on Earth for the whole of humanity for the better. We could shape society into it's proper form and function." So at first he extends the hand of true sincere friendship (or as close to it as Luthor is capable of) to Superman. At first he's pleased, and so is Superman. But there's a slow burn, as Luthor gets to know him more. Not only is there the jealousy of Superman's flashy powers getting him the lion's share of headlines ect. in their joint ventures, there comes the creeping suspicion on Lex's part that, no, they don't view things the same way. Luthor, (as Luthor always does) has overestimated his ability to judge things as they are. Facts are, that Superman's actions against Zod, taking his life, the life of the last known member of his race, of being forced to in effect end Krypton all over again after chasing for answers his whole life... It's a heavy burden on his soul, and he will never go down that road again. To quote John Byrne's Superman, "The Last Son of Krypton vows that he shall never take another life, so long as he walks the green hills of Planet Earth." He's unwilling to take the actions that Luthor believes he must for the "betterment" of the human race. In fact, Luthor starts to think that if he can't push Superman into the actions that he wants, then perhaps Superman isn't part of the solution. Perhaps he's part of the problem. In fact, given his individual power and influence... Maybe Superman is THE problem in the world right now?

I am totally down with a purely mustache twirling Lex. Really. I would have no problem if they just went with standard issue jealousy, sociopathy and megalomania. But something that puts some meat on the characters bones, gives him a point of view and some understandable if twisted emotional connection to our hero, which sours over time? That's rich material to experience. Again... YMMV.

 

[Herolee10]

Yes, lee... Exactly! These are things that can be done and done well I think. I even feel what I put in bold can play into Luthor's arc and character. Most of us assume Lex as "the villain of the piece" to be that way from the start. But let's remember that there is a history in the Superman mythos of Luthor and Superman often starting as friends, whether that's SMALLVILLE or the Silver Age. Say they go that track... Lex Luthor is a genius the likes of which is rarely seen in the world, and it's not a genius limited to technical skill or mere accumulation of academic knowledge. It's a genius of cross disciplines and even arts, the humanities, history, philosophy, psychology ect. along with the sciences like genetics, theoretical physics, cutting edge engineering and computer sciences. He's been this way since a child. He's found his natural talents gratifying and profitable, becoming a billionaire the moment he first applied his genius to the world of business and industry. But... he's lonely. And frustrated. He sees a world that to him is being run completely wrong. A world where a genius like himself has to put up with those whose mental capacities as he sees it, are inferior to him. Where what needs to be done, so obvious to Luthor on a host of issues, is always thwarted, by either ignorance or misplaced morality.

Now, imagine this person in a world where Zod's invasion happens. Suddenly the world knows that alien life, and advanced cultures are a fact. How does a person like him react? How does he react to learning the full story of how Superman and the military defeated Zod? Most are assuming that Lex is anti-Supes from the giddyup. But what if he isn't? What if he thinks to himself, "Well, here is a man like myself. He saw what had to be done and did it without hesitation. Some are afraid of this guy, but not me. I think we are two of a kind. Yes, if we were to work together to improve the world, there is nothing we couldn't do. We could revolutionize life on Earth for the whole of humanity for the better. We could shape society into it's proper form and function." So at first he extends the hand of true sincere friendship (or as close to it as Luthor is capable of) to Superman. At first he's pleased, and so is Superman. But there's a slow burn, as Luthor gets to know him more. Not only is there the jealousy of Superman's flashy powers getting him the lion's share of headlines ect. in their joint ventures, there comes the creeping suspicion on Lex's part that, no, they don't view things the same way. Luthor, (as Luthor always does) has overestimated his ability to judge things as they are. Facts are, that Superman's actions against Zod, taking his life, the life of the last known member of his race, of being forced to in effect end Krypton all over again after chasing for answers his whole life... It's a heavy burden on his soul, and he will never go down that road again. To quote John Byrne's Superman, "The Last Son of Krypton vows that he shall never take another life, so long as he walks the green hills of Planet Earth." He's unwilling to take the actions that Luthor believes he must for the "betterment" of the human race. In fact, Luthor starts to think that if he can't push Superman into the actions that he wants, then perhaps Superman isn't part of the solution. Perhaps he's part of the problem. In fact, given his individual power and influence... Maybe Superman is THE problem in the world right now?

I am totally down with a purely mustache twirling Lex. Really. I would have no problem if they just went with standard issue jealousy, sociopathy and megalomania. But something that puts some meat on the characters bones, gives him a point of view and some understandable if twisted emotional connection to our hero, which sours over time? That's rich material to experience. Again... YMMV.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Many thanks my young friend.

 

[Naked Shia]

man, I so want to see this kind of stuff in the movie. But we all know the man of murder will break both lex and bruce's necks without thinking twice about it.

 

[Pants Under Underpants]

[/B]


Yes, lee... Exactly! These are things that can be done and done well I think. I even feel what I put in bold can play into Luthor's arc and character. Most of us assume Lex as "the villain of the piece" to be that way from the start. But let's remember that there is a history in the Superman mythos of Luthor and Superman often starting as friends, whether that's SMALLVILLE or the Silver Age. Say they go that track... Lex Luthor is a genius the likes of which is rarely seen in the world, and it's not a genius limited to technical skill or mere accumulation of academic knowledge. It's a genius of cross disciplines and even arts, the humanities, history, philosophy, psychology ect. along with the sciences like genetics, theoretical physics, cutting edge engineering and computer sciences. He's been this way since a child. He's found his natural talents gratifying and profitable, becoming a billionaire the moment he first applied his genius to the world of business and industry. But... he's lonely. And frustrated. He sees a world that to him is being run completely wrong. A world where a genius like himself has to put up with those whose mental capacities as he sees it, are inferior to him. Where what needs to be done, so obvious to Luthor on a host of issues, is always thwarted, by either ignorance or misplaced morality.

Now, imagine this person in a world where Zod's invasion happens. Suddenly the world knows that alien life, and advanced cultures are a fact. How does a person like him react? How does he react to learning the full story of how Superman and the military defeated Zod? Most are assuming that Lex is anti-Supes from the giddyup. But what if he isn't? What if he thinks to himself, "Well, here is a man like myself. He saw what had to be done and did it without hesitation. Some are afraid of this guy, but not me. I think we are two of a kind. Yes, if we were to work together to improve the world, there is nothing we couldn't do. We could revolutionize life on Earth for the whole of humanity for the better. We could shape society into it's proper form and function." So at first he extends the hand of true sincere friendship (or as close to it as Luthor is capable of) to Superman. At first he's pleased, and so is Superman. But there's a slow burn, as Luthor gets to know him more. Not only is there the jealousy of Superman's flashy powers getting him the lion's share of headlines ect. in their joint ventures, there comes the creeping suspicion on Lex's part that, no, they don't view things the same way. Luthor, (as Luthor always does) has overestimated his ability to judge things as they are. Facts are, that Superman's actions against Zod, taking his life, the life of the last known member of his race, of being forced to in effect end Krypton all over again after chasing for answers his whole life... It's a heavy burden on his soul, and he will never go down that road again. To quote John Byrne's Superman, "The Last Son of Krypton vows that he shall never take another life, so long as he walks the green hills of Planet Earth." He's unwilling to take the actions that Luthor believes he must for the "betterment" of the human race. In fact, Luthor starts to think that if he can't push Superman into the actions that he wants, then perhaps Superman isn't part of the solution. Perhaps he's part of the problem. In fact, given his individual power and influence... Maybe Superman is THE problem in the world right now?

I am totally down with a purely mustache twirling Lex. Really. I would have no problem if they just went with standard issue jealousy, sociopathy and megalomania. But something that puts some meat on the characters bones, gives him a point of view and some understandable if twisted emotional connection to our hero, which sours over time? That's rich material to experience. Again... YMMV.

I would love to see Lex and Supes start as friends or at least as equals. I loved that transition from friends to enemies on Smallville. I think it was masterfully done, despite the cheese and drama on the show. And if Luthor is indeed in Suicide Squad, he could be presented as a good guy on the edge of losing it. Maybe he even has a conversation with the Joker to try and understand his perspective and justify his own growing hatred for the heroes.

 

[GreenKToo]

I think it goes down somewhat like this..

Lex blames superman for all the death and destruction that happened in mos.

Lex turns a good bit of the public against superman. its roughly 50/50.

Bruce helps lex in rebuilding metropolis. even bruce wayne can be tricked into falling for this Lex's charm, so a partnership is formed.

Batman investigates Superman.

Lex gets his hands on zod's corpse and some of the kryptonian tech and creates weapons and either doomsday, bizarro, or metallo. or maybe even more than one villain.

Batman confronts superman, he pushes supes to the limit to see if he will try to kill him, he doesnt. batman discovers superman has been helping people and is not the villain that lex claimed him to be, he loses his trust in lex and breaks off the partnership.

the monster(s) lex created begins his rampage, and he sends it to attack bruce wayne. superman and bats cant stop it alone. round one is a draw.

Batman puts his detective skills to use and finds other heroes in the world that are considered legends/myths. ( personally, i'd like to see Batman be the one who finds and convinces the others to help )

 

[GREEN =w= DAY]

I think it goes down somewhat like this..

Lex blames superman for all the death and destruction that happened in mos.

Lex turns a good bit of the public against superman. its roughly 50/50.

Bruce helps lex in rebuilding metropolis. even bruce wayne can be tricked into falling for this Lex's charm, so a partnership is formed.

Batman investigates Superman.

Lex gets his hands on zod's corpse and some of the kryptonian tech and creates weapons and either doomsday, bizarro, or metallo. or maybe even more than one villain.

Batman confronts superman, he pushes supes to the limit to see if he will try to kill him, he doesnt. batman discovers superman has been helping people and is not the villain that lex claimed him to be, he loses his trust in lex and breaks off the partnership.

the monster(s) lex created begins his rampage, and he sends it to attack bruce wayne. superman and bats cant stop it alone. round one is a draw.

Batman puts his detective skills to use and finds other heroes in the world that are considered legends/myths. ( personally, i'd like to see Batman be the one who finds and convinces the others to help )

hmmm...i actually like the sound of that

though i think that Superman should play a bigger part in forming the Justice League. i always saw him as more of the leader than Bruce. but i can understand why Bruce would be the one seeking out the other members taking into account his skills

 

[dhandler01]

Batman fans would be ticked if Batman is duped just like Supes fans would be ticked if he is made to look weak or stupid. They dont need to make anyone look dumb to make this work...

I think the two best versions of Luthor come from Red Son and 52. Red Son showed that Luthor is so smart it isnt about being good or evil, it is about how he has to win. He has to find the way to beat Superman. If Superman isnt around he can have the life he always wanted because he is the best but with Superman, he can never be perfect. In 52 he shows how evil he can be by giving hundreds powers and on New Years Eve when the world doesnt bow to him (but once again loves the heroes he helped create) he takes away all their powers and kills them all. Hundreds of people in front of the world, all at once by pushing a button.

I have known some super smart people in my day and they have eccentricities and ticks that can be funny or downright scary. They dont see the world like we do, they view it through the lens of logic without the ethics. They dont see the evil in killing a million people if it saves a billion, the ends will justify the means. If the world doesnt agree, then you splash some ego on top of it and they go super villain very fast.

Personally, I think a great scene would be to have Luthor reach out to Bruce Wayne as a fellow billionaire in the hopes of finding mutual ground and even camaraderie and have Bruce push him aside. At the same time have all of Luthor's exploits trying to discredit the alien at best lead to a split amongst the public. The military is feeding his ego though allowing him access to Kryptonian Tech because he is the only one alive who can perhaps crack the code. As he continues to fail publicly (in his eyes, remember plenty of people believe his propoganda including some in the government obviously) he becomes more isolated and angry. Why cant they see what he sees? Why do they look to the sky when their hero is right in front of them leading the way? He will show them the truth, he will drag them to a better world kicking and screaming and no one will stand in his way, especially not some lame alien.

 

[JOE]

What's the latest scoop on the trailer arrival?

 

[Captain Shazam]

There isn't one.

 

[GreenKToo]

The thing is tho ( at least for ME ) if you want this Lex to be truly believable and absolutely evil, while coming off as the nicest guy in the room, then even Batman/bruce or clark/superman need to be fooled by him at first.

This Lex will need to be the intellectual equal of Batman and Superman, and be able to sell ice to an eskimo.

 

[Nemeres]

It would be cool if for Luthor they went for a gradual descent into evil, not just an a-hole killer right off the bat. He's an arrogant genius who feels entitled to run the world, yes. But I suppose lots of benign historical figures have been that. That doesn't make him a villain. He could be a mega-complex man with a bottom line of good intentions mingled with ego, and in a world without Superman maybe he WOULD have been a "hero". But it could be his approach to dealing with alien Superman that unlocks his dark side, until eventually he reaches that point of no-return.

Basically, I'd love the extreme humanist approach, emphasis on "extreme". A villain with a valid point is always compelling. But when that villain ends up being proven wrong in those firmly-held beliefs by the hero, that's when you're cooking.

 

[souperman]

It would be cool if for Luthor they went for a gradual descent into evil, not just an a-hole killer right off the bat. He's an arrogant genius who feels entitled to run the world, yes. But I suppose lots of benign historical figures have been that. That doesn't make him a villain. He could be a mega-complex man with a bottom line of good intentions mingled with ego, and in a world without Superman maybe he WOULD have been a "hero". But it could be his approach to dealing with alien Superman that unlocks his dark side, until eventually he reaches that point of no-return.

Basically, I'd love the extreme humanist approach, emphasis on "extreme". A villain with a valid point is always compelling. But when that villain ends up being proven wrong in those firmly-held beliefs by the hero, that's when you're cooking.

I agree... you know that's exactly how they thought of Zod, not evil, just doing what he thought best...to the extreme. Eventually rationalizing evil behavior for the greater good... For some, there is no compromise. Would it really have "killed" Zod and Co. to go through the pain of adapting to Earth and living as one...he kinda did it pretty quick when he dropped his armor anyway! ; ) How about finding another planet to live on and reconstruct as Krypton? I'm sure Superman would have given the codex to the cause. Daddy did include it in his DNA for some reason.

So much for overrated common sense. ! Zod was crazed and could not see reason. Drama!

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

Tao's role is

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

unknown, but speculated to be Mercy Graves. Don't tell!

 

[Charlatan]

[/B]


Yes, lee... Exactly! These are things that can be done and done well I think. I even feel what I put in bold can play into Luthor's arc and character. Most of us assume Lex as "the villain of the piece" to be that way from the start. But let's remember that there is a history in the Superman mythos of Luthor and Superman often starting as friends, whether that's SMALLVILLE or the Silver Age. Say they go that track... Lex Luthor is a genius the likes of which is rarely seen in the world, and it's not a genius limited to technical skill or mere accumulation of academic knowledge. It's a genius of cross disciplines and even arts, the humanities, history, philosophy, psychology ect. along with the sciences like genetics, theoretical physics, cutting edge engineering and computer sciences. He's been this way since a child. He's found his natural talents gratifying and profitable, becoming a billionaire the moment he first applied his genius to the world of business and industry. But... he's lonely. And frustrated. He sees a world that to him is being run completely wrong. A world where a genius like himself has to put up with those whose mental capacities as he sees it, are inferior to him. Where what needs to be done, so obvious to Luthor on a host of issues, is always thwarted, by either ignorance or misplaced morality.

Now, imagine this person in a world where Zod's invasion happens. Suddenly the world knows that alien life, and advanced cultures are a fact. How does a person like him react? How does he react to learning the full story of how Superman and the military defeated Zod? Most are assuming that Lex is anti-Supes from the giddyup. But what if he isn't? What if he thinks to himself, "Well, here is a man like myself. He saw what had to be done and did it without hesitation. Some are afraid of this guy, but not me. I think we are two of a kind. Yes, if we were to work together to improve the world, there is nothing we couldn't do. We could revolutionize life on Earth for the whole of humanity for the better. We could shape society into it's proper form and function." So at first he extends the hand of true sincere friendship (or as close to it as Luthor is capable of) to Superman. At first he's pleased, and so is Superman. But there's a slow burn, as Luthor gets to know him more. Not only is there the jealousy of Superman's flashy powers getting him the lion's share of headlines ect. in their joint ventures, there comes the creeping suspicion on Lex's part that, no, they don't view things the same way. Luthor, (as Luthor always does) has overestimated his ability to judge things as they are. Facts are, that Superman's actions against Zod, taking his life, the life of the last known member of his race, of being forced to in effect end Krypton all over again after chasing for answers his whole life... It's a heavy burden on his soul, and he will never go down that road again. To quote John Byrne's Superman, "The Last Son of Krypton vows that he shall never take another life, so long as he walks the green hills of Planet Earth." He's unwilling to take the actions that Luthor believes he must for the "betterment" of the human race. In fact, Luthor starts to think that if he can't push Superman into the actions that he wants, then perhaps Superman isn't part of the solution. Perhaps he's part of the problem. In fact, given his individual power and influence... Maybe Superman is THE problem in the world right now?

I am totally down with a purely mustache twirling Lex. Really. I would have no problem if they just went with standard issue jealousy, sociopathy and megalomania. But something that puts some meat on the characters bones, gives him a point of view and some understandable if twisted emotional connection to our hero, which sours over time? That's rich material to experience. Again... YMMV.

I think Lex would try to "befriend" him at first hoping that he could manipulate him. But Supes soon figures out that he's being duped ,maybe even with Lois' help (seeing as Amy said she's the one that figures it all out) and when Supes refuses to assist him anymore, maybe withholding alien tech from him,Lex then decides to do an end round and steal the tech and try to smear Superman.

 

[queendarkness12]

I wonder if Steve Trevor was one of the pilots that never made it to Metropolis and crashed onto Themyscira during that time.

I also wonder about how the gap between MOS and BVS can facilitate the theory of Diana appearing in Man's World to bring him home, which could be an explanation of why she is there.

Just throwing it out there.

 

[Captain Shazam]

I thought about the same thing when I watched MoS. We could have had a dialogue among the military like

"Where is Steve Trevor?"

"I don't know sir, we lost contact with him and it seems his plane vanished."

 

[Vonter-Voman]

No one saw Trevor because he was piloting the Invisible Jet

(I do think they will incorporate the invisible jet as something from the military that Trevor pilots, just like in the New 52. But the Avengers stole the idea, damnit!)

 

[Mysteryman]

No one saw Trevor because he was piloting the Invisible Jet

(I do think they will incorporate the invisible jet as something from the military that Trevor pilots, just like in the New 52. But the Avengers stole the idea, damnit!)

yes and the invisible jet was soundproofed, too!

 

[Tech]

It would be cool if for Luthor they went for a gradual descent into evil, not just an a-hole killer right off the bat. He's an arrogant genius who feels entitled to run the world, yes. But I suppose lots of benign historical figures have been that. That doesn't make him a villain. He could be a mega-complex man with a bottom line of good intentions mingled with ego, and in a world without Superman maybe he WOULD have been a "hero". But it could be his approach to dealing with alien Superman that unlocks his dark side, until eventually he reaches that point of no-return.

Basically, I'd love the extreme humanist approach, emphasis on "extreme". A villain with a valid point is always compelling. But when that villain ends up being proven wrong in those firmly-held beliefs by the hero, that's when you're cooking.

I want Luthor to be a psycopath or exhibit extreme narcissism from beginning. I can understand not wanting a cartoonish moustache twirling villain and wanting him to be more complex and well-rounded, but if Luthor is bland 'humanist' who is just trying to oppose aliens, it will create a bland movie. I want his evil to be more pronounced than General Zod in last film. There needs to still be a strong morality play here for the movie to feel relevant.

The problem with series is that Snyder's Superman is too reckless already...so making Luthor similar to Bruce Wayne in keeping Superman in check, it makes him too sympathetic. That's problem I had with Man of Steel is that they already make protagonist too careless....making the villain excessively careful will just hurt the series.

 

[souperman]

Reckless? Just playing the cars delt.

 

[Nemeres]

I want Luthor to be a psycopath or exhibit extreme narcissism from beginning. I can understand not wanting a cartoonish moustache twirling villain and wanting him to be more complex and well-rounded, but if Luthor is bland 'humanist' who is just trying to oppose aliens, it will create a bland movie. I want his evil to be more pronounced than General Zod in last film. There needs to still be a strong morality play here for the movie to feel relevant.

The problem with series is that Snyder's Superman is too reckless already...so making Luthor similar to Bruce Wayne in keeping Superman in check, it makes him too sympathetic. That's problem I had with Man of Steel is that they already make protagonist too careless....making the villain excessively careful will just hurt the series.

Gotcha. Here's the thing, I plan to allow myself plenty of selective memory when approaching BVS. There's stuff in MOS I cannot accept as cannon - like the fact that he consciously flies the villains straight into where there's people not once, but twice, or him letting his dad die like a moron - so if I'm gonna enjoy the sequel at all, I need to let some flaws go.

So ideally I would base Luthor's distrust of Superman not so much on the destruction he caused (there should be some of that, inevitably) but on the fact that he's interfering with a natural course and making himself relied upon, when according to him, the race should only rely on themselves. Owing progress to outsiders = never. He'd see himself as an example of what humanity can accomplish and someone fit to lead, so there's megalomania and ego involved, too. The idea of being trusting and submissive to a powerful being that can turn on a whim is unacceptable to him... and that in itself is not a bad point. So that's where the "humanist" part comes in, and since it would involve him getting in the way of Superman's altruism to the detriment of people at large, that's where the "villain" part comes in, too. He'd bring it down to a racial war and ignore the morality involved.

I think that in itself is interesting, more than a run-of-the-mill genius villain. You see plenty of that already (Bond, etc), where the potentially interesting humans/alien dichotomy isn't involved. Whether it's bland or it makes him too sympathetic is up to the story more than to the ideas behind the character, I think.

 

[SuperWig]

man, I so want to see this kind of stuff in the movie. But we all know the man of murder will break both lex and bruce's necks without thinking twice about it.

Lol nice!!