BvS The BvS Ultimate Cut Thread - Part 1

[idiot09]

Honestly, my initial score out of ten was a 5. I REALLY didn't like it.

My score for the Ultimate Cut is an 8. Keep in mind that VERY few films are above an 8 for me.

I really enjoyed this movie. The majority of problems people are going to have with this version are small plotholes, (which can be fixed with a little imagination) characterizations, and tone.

Basically, it really depends on whether or not you're willing to put aside fanboy nitpicks and assess the film for what it is.

Absolutely agreed.If we take it for the film it is,rather than project our expectations,its actually a good movie.I gave the TC a 7 and the UC a 8.5.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

One of the biggest moments for me was the added scene where Clark meets Santos' wife/sister? outside of the police station and she tells him about what happens to people with the Bat brand. It gives the scene where Superman is fed up with Batman and tells him to bury the bat a lot more weight. He has more reason to be fed up with Batman.

Lex' plan was a lot clearer in this cut as well.

Yeah, in the TC that first scene between them has almost no build up, but in the UC you get a good buildup to Clark getting sick of Batman's behavior. Superman's problems with Batman are much more fleshed out, and it's also nice that you can see that Lex is pulling the strings even in the scene where Superman stops the Batmobile.

 

[Greens]

Another moment was the scene with Alfred after the explosion and before Batman's break-in at Lexcorp. In the TC, I was confused when that shot of the burning booth appeared. Huh? Another explosion? In the UC, there is some build-up and Alfred clearly knows what Bruce is doing. These little things do so much to improve the movie.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

Another moment was the scene with Alfred after the explosion and before Batman's break-in at Lexcorp. In the TC, I was confused when that shot of the burning booth appeared. Huh? Another explosion? In the UC, there is some build-up and Alfred clearly knows what Bruce is doing. These little things do so much to improve the movie.

Yeah, it's not just the big changes that improve the movie, a lot of the improvements are found in the small additions, some of which you may not even notice were added at first.

 

[AbradolfLincler]

One of the biggest moments for me was the added scene where Clark meets Santos' wife/sister? outside of the police station and she tells him about what happens to people with the Bat brand. It gives the scene where Superman is fed up with Batman and tells him to bury the bat a lot more weight. He has more reason to be fed up with Batman.

Lex' plan was a lot clearer in this cut as well.

The thing I liked about that scene was that you get the sense that trying to be intimidating doesn't come naturally to Clark, and that he's doing it strictly because he believes strongarming Batman is the only way to get through to him. It really says something that the first encounter between the titular heroes comes directly after that scene with Santos' wife. To me, it seems like what she said really struck a cord with him.

That actually makes Clark a lot more endearing to me.

 

[Greens]

Yeah, it's not just the big changes that improve the movie, a lot of the improvements are found in the small additions, some of which you may not even notice were added at first.

I just went through a list of the changes and some of them I didn't even notice were new. That's because most of the added lines felt organic to the story and didn't need to be cut at all.

 

[Micromind]

I still have a problem, why does Superman apologize to Batman by saying "Look, Bruce..I was wrong..", we see nothing what changes his opinion about Batman after the investigations by Clark Kent in Gotham ?

I think maybe he wants to take a non confrontational approach and try to talk Bruce out of the fight. Is this the reason or I am missing something here ?

 

[AbradolfLincler]

I still have a problem, why does Superman apologize to Batman by saying "Look, Bruce..I was wrong..", we see nothing what changes his opinion about Batman after the investigations by Clark Kent in Gotham ?

I think maybe he wants to take a non confrontational approach and try to talk Bruce out of the fight. Is this the reason or I am missing something here ?

Yes, we do. Lex makes it clear that he was manipulating both of them.

Even if that weren't clear in the film, just do a little deductive reasoning. Use a little imagination. If Clark realizes that Lex was behind everything, it's pretty easy to see that his machinations were designed to pit these two heroes against one another. All Clark has to do is put 2 and 2 together. Just a little arithmetic, and everything makes sense.

 

[gdw]

Considering WB didn't give them even close to enough time to properly edit the movie down, I still place that blame in their court, going off what was cut, it also seems likely that the TC involved some micromanagement from some idiot at WB, that so much of the cut material involved Clark Kent scenes is odd to say the least.

Yes.

 

[gerrym51]

Um, because that was what the studio signed off on int he first place. That's what they were moving towards from the start, and only at the 11th hour did WB panic and force the re-cut.

That said, I still think they could have made a solid 2.5-2.75 hour version, but instead they produced the butchered TC version.

Did they tell me he could? What movie has been put out at 3 hours?

 

[FlawlessVictory]

I still have a problem, why does Superman apologize to Batman by saying "Look, Bruce..I was wrong..", we see nothing what changes his opinion about Batman after the investigations by Clark Kent in Gotham ?

I think maybe he wants to take a non confrontational approach and try to talk Bruce out of the fight. Is this the reason or I am missing something here ?

Abradolf hit the nail on the head. I haven't seen the UC yet but just by watching the TC, I gathered that: Superman realized he was being manipulated by Lex and figured Batman was as well.

 

[gdw]

The only reason WB got cold feet was due to the negative reception the film received during early screenings. Had Snyder delivered a movie that got a resounding positive reaction at the screenings than the 3 hour cut is what would've been released. Can you really blame WB for taking this kind of action after they invested over $400 million in this movie? They were likely hopeful that cutting it down would improve the pacing and story. Snyder is still the one who cut the film together thus his choices of what was cut should be criticized just as much as WB getting cold feet.

What negative reactions during screenings? All the early buzz from the time that THIS cut of the film would have been screened was universal praise.
Do you not remember the "standing ovations" buzz?

Not to mention, the near universal praise now of the UC being a vastly superior.

 

[KillerWolf]

I still have a problem, why does Superman apologize to Batman by saying "Look, Bruce..I was wrong..", we see nothing what changes his opinion about Batman after the investigations by Clark Kent in Gotham ?

I think maybe he wants to take a non confrontational approach and try to talk Bruce out of the fight. Is this the reason or I am missing something here ?

I think it's because he realizes that it's Black Zero event and devastation of the Wayne Ent. building that pushes Batman to become this brutal. Not just that Lex said to Clark that his anger was two years growing and he just pushed him over the edge, but there's also that guy who says "there's a new kind of mean in him" to Clark. I took it that he realizes that Bruce is essentially a good person with good intentions and that his crimefighting didn't always include branding criminals and making "good people to live in fear". He might even feel responsible, given that his fight with Zod caused the Wayne Ent. tower to crash and we know he felt guilty for the senate bombing.

 

[gerrym51]

i can't believe i'm writing this, but given the fact that this is an R rated cut, i'm oddly bothered by the fact that doomsday has no genitals. i mean he evolves from zod's body, i would assume that kriptonians have genitals even though they don't reproduce naturally otherwise lois and clark have a very interesting sex life.

there are some things you have to ignore. Think about it-do you really think a Kryptonian could have sex with a human and NOT hurt them even if accidently.

Some things get glossed over.

 

[gerrym51]

i will say this. Perhaps the things that could have easily been removed from the movie were also things WB wanted left in.

All the future dream stuff/flash/JL cameo stuff added nothing to the film per se but were hints of JL.

 

[AbradolfLincler]

there are some things you have to ignore. Think about it-do you really think a Kryptonian could have sex with a human and NOT hurt them even if accidently.

Some things get glossed over.

Honestly, this falls into the realm of nitpicking for me... There's a reason we suspend our disbelief when enjoying fiction.

 

[idiot09]

Yes, we do. Lex makes it clear that he was manipulating both of them.

Even if that weren't clear in the film, just do a little deductive reasoning. Use a little imagination. If Clark realizes that Lex was behind everything, it's pretty easy to see that his machinations were designed to pit these two heroes against one another. All Clark has to do is put 2 and 2 together. Just a little arithmetic, and everything makes sense.

We dont even have to deduce.Lex explicity states "Its ripe fruit,his hate.I didnt take much to push him over the edge actually,some little red notes,a big bang,"you let your family die"".

 

[idiot09]

i will say this. Perhaps the things that could have easily been removed from the movie were also things WB wanted left in.

All the future dream stuff/flash/JL cameo stuff added nothing to the film per se but were hints of JL.

One word.Merchandise.

 

[idiot09]

Did anyone else love how news media was used to convey what was going on,which is straight out of TDKR?

There are so many examples,the vandalising of Superman statue,the interview of the africa lady,the interview of Finch,the whole Superman montage,Jon Stewart,the whole coverage of aftermath of senate bombing,the coverage of troubles at the scoutship,etc etc.

 

[Micromind]

I think it's because he realizes that it's Black Zero event and devastation of the Wayne Ent. building that pushes Batman to become this brutal. Not just that Lex said to Clark that his anger was two years growing and he just pushed him over the edge, but there's also that guy who says "there's a new kind of mean in him" to Clark. I took it that he realizes that Bruce is essentially a good person with good intentions and that his crimefighting didn't always include branding criminals and making "good people to live in fear". He might even feel responsible, given that his fight with Zod caused the Wayne Ent. tower to crash and we know he felt guilty for the senate bombing.

We dont even have to deduce.Lex explicity states "Its ripe fruit,his hate.I didnt take much to push him over the edge actually,some little red notes,a big bang,"you let your family die"".

Thanks for reply, you guys are right, Clark realizes that Batman became more brutal after the events of Zod invasion and the scene where Lex talks to Clark about how he manipulated Bruce over period of two years.

 

[gdw]

Did they tell me he could? What movie has been put out at 3 hours?

Not sure why they would need to tell YOU he could make a 3 hour film, but, as for your second question, Avatar, Titanic, the LOTR films, Hobit films, etc, just a handful of the more recent near, or over, 3 hour long films.

So, you know, just some of the top grossing films of all time.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

One word.Merchandise.

[YT]/watch?v=PQEVgbMqq7o[/YT]

 

[tanita_mors]

Honestly, this falls into the realm of nitpicking for me... There's a reason we suspend our disbelief when enjoying fiction.

people, i was half joking about the genitals situation. i guess it didn't translate well.

 

[J.Drangal]

i don't think lex cared. because if batman killed superman then he wasn't all powerful, and if he killed batman then he wasn't all good because he took "justice" into his own hands and became an executioner. doomsday was a last resort that if superman survives batman he could kill him.

This is quite how I see it too.
Lex wants to get rid of the meta-humans/gods that are on Earth.

Discovering that the kryptonite could kill Superman, Lex decides to start with him and to use Batman to make the dirty job.
Knowing that this one has lost people in the battle of Metropolis and that he's in the path of a radicalization, he makes sure to set up Superman as a threat to push him to the confrontation.
On the other side, he tricks Superman to go after him by killing the prisoners having the bat-brand. This way, he makes even Batman angrier knowing that this one won't tolerate any kind of control, let alone from someone he considers responsible of personal loss.
Bringing the kryptonite to Gotham, Lex "helps" Batman to have the rock and then kills an ex-employee of Wayne Industry in martyr to completely settled his rage.
Finally, he forces Superman to go to the battle and hopes to see the bat succeed.

Doomsday is an alternative born with the opportunity to have had access to the kryptonian ship. Thinking he can control it by mixing his blood with the creature, it was a last resort for Lex to kill Superman and, I think, the way to kill the rest of the meta-humans/gods he was tracking.

 

[gdw]

people, i was half joking about the genitals situation. i guess it didn't translate well.

To every joke, there is a kernel of truth, and many focus on just the kernels